This day have I begotten you

[freelight]

John 14:22 W/H
22 λεγει αυτω ιουδας ουχ ο ισκαριωτης κυριε τι γεγονεν οτι ημιν μελλεις εμφανιζειν σεαυτον και ουχι τω κοσμω
22 Says to him Yhudah, (not the Ysakariot), Adoni, what has come to pass that you are about to exhibit yourself to us and not to the world?

The question, "What has come to pass", or, "What has happened", is like saying, "What has changed", but it is not scripturally correct to say it that way because Elohim does not change. That is likely why it is worded the way it is; but the whole statement in the context in which it is found reveals a hidden kernel of truth. Some imagine a two hundred percent "God-Man", (one hundred percent God and one hundred percent Man, as they say), walking upon the water in one hundred percent material human physical flesh. Others imagine merely a one hundred percent human being walking upon the water in one hundred percent material human physical flesh. Still yet others read of something like a Phantasma walking upon the water, since that is indeed what is in the text and what the disciples and apostles thought they saw, and when they see this in the text they realize it is imagery, taken from the natural creation of Elohim, (though rare when it comes to ball lightning, St. Elmo's fire, Castor and Pollux, and such things, but well known to sailors from ancient times), and they "see" that the natural creation of Elohim is likely being used to describe supernal and supernatural things, such as Light, and Spirit, and Life: things which cannot actually be "seen" except in the sense of "seeing" by way of understanding, or perhaps more visually by way of night visions and dreams, (imagery). And they remember that it is written, No one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time.

What do think of the theophanies in the OT, which describe Elohim as if having a 'form' of some kind, even anthropomorphic images? It appears since man was created/made in God's image,...the archetype of man, its 'form' is like that of Gods....even though God is spirit, incorporeal. How do you reconcile these, and also that some assume the human images of 'Elohim' or 'angels' in the OT were of some 'pre-incarnate' Christ, speaking as 'God' or the Angel of the LORD. Would be interesting how these can be explained or related

 

[S-word]

Thank goodness the truth has already been fully expounded in this thread concerning the topic.

"WHERE"?

 

[daqq]

"WHERE"?

If you had any reading comprehension, and could actually follow content and context, you would simply begin on page one of this thread and start to read. And you would see that I also believe one of the aspects of the faith that you purport to believe yourself. So why then would you be attacking me here in this thread when it expounds one of the precepts that you also claim to believe to be true? It is because you do not actually know why the topic and subject matter of this thread is true; and that is because you are a thief who steals what he wants and discards the rest, and then slays his victim to hide the evidence for what he has done: and for the same reason your doctrine is a Frankenstein patchwork from the machinations of your vain imagination. And for the same reason you attack me here in this thread, which actually proves one of the tenants you supposedly hold in your doctrine; for you stole what you think you have from someone else, and do not actually even know why it is true, and this thread came about long before you ever arrived here, and you therefore perceive me as a threat to your high and mighty image of yourself. I did no such thing but rather the Master showed me these things from the scripture; and when I understood these things from the scripture, then I began to look for others who might be saying the same things, and more importantly, why. I did not go steal what they had and make it my own but rather quoted those sources in this thread, and gave them credit, because I know the Master also showed them these things as he has shown me in the Word. I will tell you what is coming for you because I know from my own past experience: because you are a thief, who steals what he wants from the messengers and discards the rest as refuse, one day the Messengers are going to come and demand what is theirs; and what will you do when you do not have it to give because you tossed most of it aside as rubbish? They will take it from your rotting carcass; from your fins, to your gills, to your scales, down to the very last belly mite. In the afterglow days perhaps you will consider it perfectly, (it will not be a fire to be warmed by). :chuckle:

 

[S-word]

If you had any reading comprehension, and could actually follow content and context, you would simply begin on page one of this thread and start to read. And you would see that I also believe one of the aspects of the faith that you purport to believe yourself. So why then would you be attacking me here in this thread when it expounds one of the precepts that you also claim to believe to be true? It is because you do not actually know why the topic and subject matter of this thread is true; and that is because you are a thief who steals what he wants and discards the rest, and then slays his victim to hide the evidence for what he has done: and for the same reason your doctrine is a Frankenstein patchwork from the machinations of your vain imagination. And for the same reason you attack me here in this thread, which actually proves one of the tenants you supposedly hold in your doctrine; for you stole what you think you have from someone else, and do not actually even know why it is true, and this thread came about long before you ever arrived here, and you therefore perceive me as a threat to your high and mighty image of yourself. I did no such thing but rather the Master showed me these things from the scripture; and when I understood these things from the scripture, then I began to look for others who might be saying the same things, and more importantly, why. I did not go steal what they had and make it my own but rather quoted those sources in this thread, and gave them credit, because I know the Master also showed them these things as he has shown me in the Word. I will tell you what is coming for you because I know from my own past experience: because you are a thief, who steals what he wants from the messengers and discards the rest as refuse, one day the Messengers are going to come and demand what is theirs; and what will you do when you do not have it to give because you tossed most of it aside as rubbish? They will take it from your rotting carcass; from your fins, to your gills, to your scales, down to the very last belly mite. In the afterglow days perhaps you will consider it perfectly, (it will not be a fire to be warmed by). :chuckle:

dagg wrote........Thank goodness the truth has already been fully expounded in this thread concerning the topic.

And again I ask the question, "WHERE?"

 

[daqq]

dagg wrote........Thank goodness the truth has already been fully expounded in this thread concerning the topic.

And again I ask the question, "WHERE?"

Poor double blind Bar-Timaeus son of Timaeus . . .
Get yourself some eyeslave from the Master so that you may see.

 

[keypurr]

dagg wrote........Thank goodness the truth has already been fully expounded in this thread concerning the topic.

And again I ask the question, "WHERE?"

If you do not see it, your not meant to. Your blindness will not allow you to understand what is in this thread.


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[S-word]

If you do not see it, your not meant to. Your blindness will not allow you to understand what is in this thread.


Sent from my iPad using TOL

dagg wrote........Thank goodness the truth has already been fully expounded in this thread concerning the topic.

The topic that dagg is referring to is the lies told by Stephen. One, being that he claimed that Abraham did not move into the land of Canaan until after his father had died.

Do you believe Stephen, when the book of Genesis states that Abraham was born when his father Terah was 70 and that he was 75 when God told him to move into the land of Canaan, and that he left his father in Haran with his brother Nahor, who died there at the age of 205, some 60 years 'AFTER' Abraham had gone to the land of Canaan? Yes or No.

Do you believe Stephen who said that the bodies of Jacob and his sons were taken to Shechem and buried there? Yes or No.

Do you believe Stephen, who said that Abraham bought his families burial site from Hamor the father of Shechem Yes or No.

If you believe that Stephen spoke the truth, then you condemn the book of Genesis as no more than a book of lies.

So again I ask the question, Where has dagg fully expounded the truth of that topic?

 

[keypurr]

Let me ask you this, did the son who was at the creation come down from heaven or was he born to Mary?

Sent from my A622GL using TOL mobile app

 

[S-word]

Let me ask you this, did the son who was at the creation come down from heaven or was he born to Mary?

Sent from my A622GL using TOL mobile app

Don't try to change the subject. I will answer your question when you have first answered mine.

Do you believe that the words of Stephen, which contradict the book of Genesis are true or false? Yes or No.

 

[keypurr]

Don't try to change the subject. I will answer your question when you have first answered mine.

Do you believe that the words of Stephen, which contradict the book of Genesis are true or false? Yes or No.

It was you who tried to change the subject. There are many contradictions in scripture. I focus on the important topics.

Sent from my A622GL using TOL mobile app

 

[S-word]

Poor double blind Bar-Timaeus son of Timaeus . . .
Get yourself some eyeslave from the Master so that you may see.

Hi ya there dagg, back for another bruising I see.

Dagg’s champion wrote.............He has no reading comprehension whatsoever, (just like his double blind Bar-Timaeus son of Timaeus Evil.Eye.<(I)> twin). Once you take the time to study and hopefully understand the context it becomes fairly clear that Haran was the firstborn, but died in the furnace of the Chaldees, for the other brother of Abram, Nahor, married the daughter of Haran their older brother, (the name of the daughter of Haran was Milcah). Abram and Nahor were probably the same age but the elder, Haran, begat Lot, Milcah, and Iscah, before he died. If Abram's brother Nahor married Milcah the daughter of Haran then Haran was no doubt older than Abram and Nahor; but because Haran died before his father, Terah, his name is listed last in the record. If you count back from the time when Terah died, at the age of two hundred and five years, you may plainly see that Abram was born when Terah was one hundred and thirty years old. So Haran the elder was born when Terah was seventy, but he died in Ur before his father Terah, and therefore his name is given last in the text, (how can you be the inheritor of your father if you die before your father dies?). Thus Haran was born when Terah was seventy years old but Abram was not born until Terah was one hundred and thirty. One hundred and thirty plus seventy five is two hundred and five years: that is the age of Terah at his death, and the same is the year of the departure of Abram out of Charan into Canaan at the age of seventy five. Simple math, but first it is necessary to actually understand the text within its context; something the chronological wizard, S-word the word-sorcerer, apparently does not have and cannot grasp.

S-word..........Your champion wrote that Abraham and Nahor were probably the same age, thereby suggesting that they were twins, why did he not say Abraham, Nahor and Haran were triplets? The Septugint, the Book of Jubilees, and the Jerusalem bible, all state that “When Terah was 70 years old, he became the father of Abraham, Nahor and Haran.” All three were born when Terah was 70 years old.

Your champion wrote. Thus Haran was born when Terah was seventy years old but Abram was not born until Terah was one hundred and thirty.

I have read in the Holy Scriptures, which state that Abraham, Nahor and Haran were born when Terah was 70, I wonder from which scriptures your champion received HIS erroneous idea that Abraham was born when Terah was 130 years old? Methinks he must have just made that up.

If fact, anyone who has studied this subject, Knows that your champion doesn’t have a clue, and he is, as Peter says, “A mentally unstable person who is ignorant of the Holy Scriptures, and who twists and distorts them to his own destruction.

According to the Book of Jubilees, Abraham, Nahor and Haran, were born when their father Terah was 70, this was in the year 1876 A. M. and Abraham was married at the age of 49.

It was in the year 1925 A.M. that Abraham took to himself a wife and her name was Saria, the daughter of his Father ‘Terah.’ (Abraham’s Half sister) And three years later, in 1928 A.M. his brother Haran took to himself a wife, who bore to him, four years later in 1932 A.M. a son who he called Lot.

One would think that the eldest son would be the first to marry, don’t you agree?

Although the book of Jubilees, states that Nahor took to himself a wife, it reveals neither the name of his wife, nor the year in which he was married.

When Abraham was 60 years old, in the year 1936 A. M. he sneaked into the temple of Ur with all its wooden gods, of which, Terah was the High Priest, and set it ablaze with no one observing him, but when the people saw the flames coming out of the temple, Haran, the brother of Abraham, rushed into the temple in order to save his gods, but he was incinerated with them, and they buried him there in the city of Ur of the Chaldees.

Milcah the daughter of Haran, would have been born sometime between 1928 A. M. when Haran got married, and 1936 A. M, when her father Haran died, and the maximum age that we can accredit to her when the family left the city of Ur, is 7/8 years old.

As Abraham took Lot, who was born in 1932 A. M. with him to Canaan in 1951/52 A. M., which was 15 years after the death of Haran, in 1936 A. M. this means that Lot was then 19 years old.

It would appear that Iscah and Milcah, the other two children sired by Haran, who did not travel to Canaan with Abraham, remained with Nahor, and when Milcah became of age, Nahor united with her as husband and wife.

I would advise that you and your champion get yourself some eyeslave from the Master so that you may see. Fancy believing that Abraham was born when Terah was 130, what length will the hypocrites go too, and what lies will they spread in order to support the untruths told by Stephen?

BTW, while you are at it, get something for the bruising that you have received once again.

 

[daqq]

Hi ya there dagg, back for another bruising I see.

Dagg’s champion wrote.............

Already responded to that in your own thread where it was posted.
You are just trolling and looking for attention.

No body writes anything for me unless I quote their words and make it plain that such words are not my own. However, you are correct about one thing: the One who showed me those particular things which you quoted from my words is indeed my Champion.

 

[daqq]

It was you who tried to change the subject. There are many contradictions in scripture. I focus on the important topics.

Sent from my A622GL using TOL mobile app

There must be some reason why he refuses to start his own thread about it even after it has been mentioned here and in other places already. This thread has nothing to do with whether or not Stephen was lying, (as S-word boldly claims). I guess he is afraid no one will be interested in listening to him calling Stephen, Luke, Paul, and the Holy Spirit, liars. Or maybe he is just afraid of getting banned for saying such nonsense out in the open and therefore has no choice but to try to sneak such things into the middle of other peoples threads which have nothing to do with his blasphemies.

 

[daqq]

Hi ya there dagg, back for another bruising I see.

Dagg’s champion wrote.............He has no reading comprehension whatsoever, (just like his double blind Bar-Timaeus son of Timaeus Evil.Eye.<(I)> twin). Once you take the time to study and hopefully understand the context it becomes fairly clear that Haran was the firstborn, but died in the furnace of the Chaldees, for the other brother of Abram, Nahor, married the daughter of Haran their older brother, (the name of the daughter of Haran was Milcah). Abram and Nahor were probably the same age but the elder, Haran, begat Lot, Milcah, and Iscah, before he died. If Abram's brother Nahor married Milcah the daughter of Haran then Haran was no doubt older than Abram and Nahor; but because Haran died before his father, Terah, his name is listed last in the record. If you count back from the time when Terah died, at the age of two hundred and five years, you may plainly see that Abram was born when Terah was one hundred and thirty years old. So Haran the elder was born when Terah was seventy, but he died in Ur before his father Terah, and therefore his name is given last in the text, (how can you be the inheritor of your father if you die before your father dies?). Thus Haran was born when Terah was seventy years old but Abram was not born until Terah was one hundred and thirty. One hundred and thirty plus seventy five is two hundred and five years: that is the age of Terah at his death, and the same is the year of the departure of Abram out of Charan into Canaan at the age of seventy five. Simple math, but first it is necessary to actually understand the text within its context; something the chronological wizard, S-word the word-sorcerer, apparently does not have and cannot grasp.

S-word..........Your champion wrote that Abraham and Nahor were probably the same age, thereby suggesting that they were twins, why did he not say Abraham, Nahor and Haran were triplets? The Septugint, the Book of Jubilees, and the Jerusalem bible, all state that “When Terah was 70 years old, he became the father of Abraham, Nahor and Haran.” All three were born when Terah was 70 years old.

Your champion wrote. Thus Haran was born when Terah was seventy years old but Abram was not born until Terah was one hundred and thirty.

I have read in the Holy Scriptures, which state that Abraham, Nahor and Haran were born when Terah was 70, I wonder from which scriptures your champion received HIS erroneous idea that Abraham was born when Terah was 130 years old? Methinks he must have just made that up.

If fact, anyone who has studied this subject, Knows that your champion doesn’t have a clue, and he is, as Peter says, “A mentally unstable person who is ignorant of the Holy Scriptures, and who twists and distorts them to his own destruction.

According to the Book of Jubilees, Abraham, Nahor and Haran, were born when their father Terah was 70, this was in the year 1876 A. M. and Abraham was married at the age of 49.

It was in the year 1925 A.M. that Abraham took to himself a wife and her name was Saria, the daughter of his Father ‘Terah.’ (Abraham’s Half sister) And three years later, in 1928 A.M. his brother Haran took to himself a wife, who bore to him, four years later in 1932 A.M. a son who he called Lot.

One would think that the eldest son would be the first to marry, don’t you agree?

Although the book of Jubilees, states that Nahor took to himself a wife, it reveals neither the name of his wife, nor the year in which he was married.

When Abraham was 60 years old, in the year 1936 A. M. he sneaked into the temple of Ur with all its wooden gods, of which, Terah was the High Priest, and set it ablaze with no one observing him, but when the people saw the flames coming out of the temple, Haran, the brother of Abraham, rushed into the temple in order to save his gods, but he was incinerated with them, and they buried him there in the city of Ur of the Chaldees.

Milcah the daughter of Haran, would have been born sometime between 1928 A. M. when Haran got married, and 1936 A. M, when her father Haran died, and the maximum age that we can accredit to her when the family left the city of Ur, is 7/8 years old.

As Abraham took Lot, who was born in 1932 A. M. with him to Canaan in 1951/52 A. M., which was 15 years after the death of Haran, in 1936 A. M. this means that Lot was then 19 years old.

It would appear that Iscah and Milcah, the other two children sired by Haran, who did not travel to Canaan with Abraham, remained with Nahor, and when Milcah became of age, Nahor united with her as husband and wife.

I would advise that you and your champion get yourself some eyeslave from the Master so that you may see. Fancy believing that Abraham was born when Terah was 130, what length will the hypocrites go too, and what lies will they spread in order to support the untruths told by Stephen?

BTW, while you are at it, get something for the bruising that you have received once again.

No body writes anything for me unless I quote their words and make it plain that such words are not my own. However, you are correct about one thing: the One who showed me those particular things which you quoted from my words is indeed my Champion.

I hope everyone can see what just happened here: S-word finally understood what was being said in the last few pages. And when he went back through the clues that were given he found what I said to Patrick. Then it probably was that he took a day off to figure out how he was going to get around his pile of lies and garbage which he himself has produced in this thread based on his phony concocted chronology which also required him to call Stephen a liar. S-word never actually understood the context of the passage he has twisted for his own use. Abram was not the firstborn; however Haran the firstborn died before his father Terah, and thus, his name is written last in the text instead of first. There is also precedent for the names not always being in the correct order, (for example Shem, Ham, and Japheth). S-word has assumed that Abram, Nahor, and Haran were triplets, all the same age, all begotten when Terah was at the age of seventy. However the text does not actually plainly state what S-word has assumed. :chuckle:

If you truly knew anything about chronology, and how such things must first and foremost be understood by way of reading comprehension, you would know the problems with some of the statements made about Shem, Ham, and Japeth. Shem was not the firstborn even though his name is always mentioned first in the genealogies when all three names are mentioned:

Genesis 5:32 KJV
32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Genesis 6:10 KJV
10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Genesis 10:21 KJV
21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.

Genesis 11:10 KJV
10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:

If indeed Shem, Ham, and Japeth were all born in the exact year that Noah was five hundred years old then how is it that Shem is one hundred years old and begets Arphaxad TWO YEARS after the flood? The flood occurred in the sixth hundredth year of the life of Noah:

Genesis 7:11-13 KJV
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

It therefore means that not only was Shem not the firstborn; but the words for birthing or begetting are not fully communicated into English and rather mean that Noah began to produce children in the five hundredth year of his life, those offspring being Shem, Ham, and Japeth, but not necessarily in that order and not necessarily all in that same year or all at the very same time. Shem was one hundred years of age two years after the flood when he begat Arphaxad. If indeed you believe the scripture then you have no way around what I have presented here because that is what the scripture says. The only place where there is any wiggle room is to say, as I have said, that the words used for begetting are not fully communicated into English as to full meaning and usage in some of these critical passages. The passages, statements, and contexts quoted above herein must by default mean that Noah began to beget children in his five hundredth year, (not that all three were born in his five hundredth year).

The very same thing is therefore true of the three sons of Terah: Terah began to produce children in his seventieth year, and he produced Abram, Nahor, and Haran, but again not necessarily in that order because the text and context plainly tells us that Haran died before his father in Ur of the Chaldees. This therefore, if only you understood typology, is the same old typology of the firstborn son of perdition which runs throughout the entire scripture, which you clearly do not understand: for Ur also means FURNACE, and therefore Haran died in the FURNACE of the Chaldees because he is the typological firstborn son of perdition. The same runs through the seed which follows by way of Abram whose name was changed to Abraham, that is, "Ishmael -vs- Isaac", "Esau -vs- Jacob", "Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated", and the typology begins with "Cain -vs- Abel", and concerns "the flesh -vs- the Spirit", as even Paul speaks much about in symbolism and typology. It is allegory, symbolism, and typology, and all fits together perfectly; while your twofold double-blind Bar-Timaeus understanding forces the scripture into a lie and forces you to call Luke, Paul, Stephen, and the Holy Spirit, all liars. There is no more deceived person than yourself because you claim to "see" but do not understand what you claim you see from the scripture. Your champion who taught you what you claim to know is the liar, and that is plain as day for all to see because your champion told you that Stephen is a liar, because your champion is a liar; you are listening to the voice of your firstborn son of perdition, (testimony is spirit). :chuckle:

1 John 3:12
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother: and why did he slay him? because his own works were evil, and those of his brother upright.

Poor double blind Bar-Timaeus son of Timaeus . . .
Get yourself some eyeslave from the Master so that you may see.

 

[daqq]

This therefore, if only you understood typology, is the same old typology of the firstborn son of perdition which runs throughout the entire scripture, which you clearly do not understand: for Ur also means FURNACE, and therefore Haran died in the FURNACE of the Chaldees because he is the typological firstborn son of perdition. The same runs through the seed which follows by way of Abram whose name was changed to Abraham, that is, "Ishmael -vs- Isaac", "Esau -vs- Jacob", "Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated", and the typology begins with "Cain -vs- Abel", and concerns "the flesh -vs- the Spirit", as even Paul speaks much about in symbolism and typology. It is allegory, symbolism, and typology, and all fits together perfectly; while your twofold double-blind Bar-Timaeus understanding forces the scripture into a lie and forces you to call Luke, Paul, Stephen, and the Holy Spirit, all liars. There is no more deceived person than yourself because you claim to "see" but do not understand what you claim you see from the scripture. Your champion who taught you what you claim to know is the liar, and that is plain as day for all to see because your champion told you that Stephen is a liar, because your champion is a liar; you are listening to the voice of your firstborn son of perdition, (testimony is spirit).

Translate all that into modern day English and I might even read what you are trying to say.

It is astounding how many are willing to lie to themselves; telling themselves that the discussions which happen here are meaningless and having no impact on our doctrines or what we believe concerning the scripture.

Abraham had quite a history with furnaces, didn't he? In the Midrash, Nimrod threw him into one. And there's this story in Jubilees.

Also, speaking of alternate vowel pointings, UR (the proper name of Abram's birthplace) with a different vowel pointing means... furnace.

I was just looking at this again, and checked in the LXX, and noticed that in the LXX they rendered χωρα-χωρας in the place of Ur, which as you probably already know is typically understood in modern times as country, region, space, territory, land, and so on:

Genesis 11:28-31 LXX Brenton Translation
28 And Arrhan died in the presence of Tharrha his father, in the land in which he was born, in the country [χωρα] of the Chaldees.
29 And Abram and Nachor took to themselves wives, the name of the wife of Abram was Sara, and the name of the wife of Nachor, Malcha, daughter of Arrhan, and he was the father of Malcha, the father of Jescha.
30 And Sara was barren, and did not bear children.
31 And Tharrha took Abram his son, and Lot the son Arrhan, the son of his son, and Sara his daughter-in-law, the wife of Abram his son, and led them forth out of the land [χωρας] of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Chanaan, and they came as far as Charrhan, and he dwelt there.

The two places where we see "country", (χωρα), and "land", (χωρας), in the above passage are the same two places where Ur appears in the Hebrew text. What is going on here? It appears they are rendering Ur/Or with a word that may actually means both country and furnace at the same time, and thus, if this is so, then the rendering would be ingenious in that it might be read either way. If you look at the etymology of the name of the city Chorazin you will find that some lexicons state that the name of the city means "furnace of smoke", (G5523), which they get from one of the Hebrew words for furnace and the word for smoke, (Gen 15:17 - עשן).

כור - Deuteronomy 4:20 - 1 Kings 8:51 - Isaiah 48:10
כור - Kor - Kwr - Chor (χορ) - Chwra? (χωρα)?

χοραζιν = "furnace of smoke"
χορα (כור) + `ζιν (עשן) = עשן + כור
χοραζιν = כורעשן (silent `ayin = χορα-`ζιν)

So the following may also be an acceptable reading:

Genesis 11:28-31 LXX
28 And Arrhan died in the presence of Tharrha his father, in the land [γη] in which he was born, in the furnace [χωρα] of the Chaldees.
29 And Abram and Nachor took to themselves wives, the name of the wife of Abram was Sara, and the name of the wife of Nachor, Malcha, daughter of Arrhan, and he was the father of Malcha, the father of Jescha.
30 And Sara was barren, and did not bear children.
31 And Tharrha took Abram his son, and Lot the son Arrhan, the son of his son, and Sara his daughter-in-law, the wife of Abram his son, and led them forth out of the land-furnace [χωρας] of the Chaldees, to go into the land [γη] of Chanaan, and they came as far as Charrhan, and he dwelt there.

Yeah, Haran the "son of perdition" died in the furnace, that is, Ur, of the Chaldees.

:sheep:

 

[keypurr]

Satan will do any thing to derail this thread daqq.

They will not understand until the spirit opens their eyes.

 

[patrick jane]

Satan will do any thing to derail this thread daqq.

They will not understand until the spirit opens their eyes.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is equal with God? Do you believe that Jesus is fully man and fully God?

 

[keypurr]

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is equal with God? Do you believe that Jesus is fully man and fully God?

I believe that no one is greater than the Father who is the only true God.

I believe that the spirit son, the logos, was sent to dwell in Jesus, a man, to bring us an understanding of his God. I believe that Jesus was the body God prepared for his logos.

I believe that Jesus Christ is now Lord of all creation, made so by his God and our God.

The logos is a FORM of God, not God. The logos is a created god, the word of the Father. A spirit.

 

[S-word]

If you truly knew anything about chronology, and how such things must first and foremost be understood by way of reading comprehension, you would know the problems with some of the statements made about Shem, Ham, and Japeth. Shem was not the firstborn even though his name is always mentioned first in the genealogies when all three names are mentioned:

Genesis 5:32 KJV
32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Genesis 6:10 KJV
10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Genesis 10:21 KJV
21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.

Genesis 11:10 KJV
10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:

If indeed Shem, Ham, and Japeth were all born in the exact year that Noah was five hundred years old then how is it that Shem is one hundred years old and begets Arphaxad TWO YEARS after the flood? The flood occurred in the sixth hundredth year of the life of Noah:

Genesis 7:11-13 KJV
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

It therefore means that not only was Shem not the firstborn; but the words for birthing or begetting are not fully communicated into English and rather mean that Noah began to produce children in the five hundredth year of his life, those offspring being Shem, Ham, and Japeth, but not necessarily in that order and not necessarily all in that same year or all at the very same time. Shem was one hundred years of age two years after the flood when he begat Arphaxad. If indeed you believe the scripture then you have no way around what I have presented here because that is what the scripture says. The only place where there is any wiggle room is to say, as I have said, that the words used for begetting are not fully communicated into English as to full meaning and usage in some of these critical passages. The passages, statements, and contexts quoted above herein must by default mean that Noah began to beget children in his five hundredth year, (not that all three were born in his five hundredth year).

The very same thing is therefore true of the three sons of Terah: Terah began to produce children in his seventieth year, and he produced Abram, Nahor, and Haran, but again not necessarily in that order because the text and context plainly tells us that Haran died before his father in Ur of the Chaldees. This therefore, if only you understood typology, is the same old typology of the firstborn son of perdition which runs throughout the entire scripture, which you clearly do not understand: for Ur also means FURNACE, and therefore Haran died in the FURNACE of the Chaldees because he is the typological firstborn son of perdition. The same runs through the seed which follows by way of Abram whose name was changed to Abraham, that is, "Ishmael -vs- Isaac", "Esau -vs- Jacob", "Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated", and the typology begins with "Cain -vs- Abel", and concerns "the flesh -vs- the Spirit", as even Paul speaks much about in symbolism and typology. It is allegory, symbolism, and typology, and all fits together perfectly; while your twofold double-blind Bar-Timaeus understanding forces the scripture into a lie and forces you to call Luke, Paul, Stephen, and the Holy Spirit, all liars. There is no more deceived person than yourself because you claim to "see" but do not understand what you claim you see from the scripture. Your champion who taught you what you claim to know is the liar, and that is plain as day for all to see because your champion told you that Stephen is a liar, because your champion is a liar; you are listening to the voice of your firstborn son of perdition, (testimony is spirit). :chuckle:

1 John 3:12
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother: and why did he slay him? because his own works were evil, and those of his brother upright.

Poor double blind Bar-Timaeus son of Timaeus . . .
Get yourself some eyeslave from the Master so that you may see.

Dagg wrote--------------No body writes anything for me unless I quote their words and make it plain that such words are not my own. However, you are correct about one thing: the One who showed me those particular things which you quoted from my words is indeed my Champion.

S-word------------Well, like yourself, your champion certainly didn’t know what he was talking about.

Dagg wrote------------I hope everyone can see what just happened here: S-word finally understood what was being said in the last few pages. And when he went back through the clues that were given he found what I said to Patrick. Then it probably was that he took a day off to figure out how he was going to get around his pile of lies and garbage which he himself has produced in this thread based on his phony concocted chronology which also required him to call Stephen a liar.

S-word------------Wrong again dagg. The reason I have taken so long to get back to you, is because I live on a twenty five acrea block right on the coast, and we were evacuated owing to a massive cyclone named Debbie and the tidal surges that she brought with her.

Even now we have no internet coverage, and I’m writting this in my documents and will post it when I am able to get on the net.

Dagg wrote-------------S-word never actually understood the context of the passage he has twisted for his own use. Abram was not the firstborn; however Haran the firstborn died before his father Terah, and thus, his name is written last in the text instead of first.

S-word------------From the book of Jubilees Chapter 11 verse 14; [1870 A.M.] Terah took to himself a wife, and her name was ’Edna, the daughter of ’Abram, the daughter of his father’s sister. And in the seventh year of this week [1876 A.M.] she bare him a son, and he called his name Abram, 15 by the name of the father of his mother; for he had died before his daughter had conceived a son.

According to the scriptures from which Jesus and the Apostles quoted, Abraham was the first born son of Terah and his wife Edna, who named her first born son after her dead father.

Please reveal the scriptures, which you claim, state that Haran was the first born of the 70 year old Terah and the ridiculous statement that Abraham was not born until Terah was 135. You cannot, because no such scripture exists.

dagg wrote------------There is also precedent for the names not always being in the correct order, (for example Shem, Ham, and Japheth). S-word has assumed that Abram, Nahor, and Haran were triplets, all the same age, all begotten when Terah was at the age of seventy. However the text does not actually plainly state what S-word has assumed.

S-word------------It was your champion who believed that Abraham and Nahor were the same age, suggesting that they were twins. I simply asked the question, “if he believed that, why didn’t he take it one step further and claim that Abraham, Nahor and Haran were triplets.”

I then went one to show that Abraham was married four years before Haran was married, and suggested that surely the eldest son would be the first to marry.

Didn’t you read that, or as usual, were you simply incapable of comprehending that which you had read?

Dagg wrote------------If you truly knew anything about chronology, and how such things must first and foremost be understood by way of reading comprehension, you would know the problems with some of the statements made about Shem, Ham, and Japeth. Shem was not the firstborn even though his name is always mentioned first in the genealogies when all three names are mentioned:

S-word-----------I have already stated in one of my posts somewhere, that Ham, who was born when Noah was 500, was the first born, and that he lost the rights and the blessing of first born, when his son Canaan, the youngest descendant of Noah at that time, sodomised his grandfather as he lay naked in his tent in a drunken stupor. I also pointed out in the same post that Japheth was the younger brother of Shem, and that Shem was born when Noah was 502.

dagg wrote------------Genesis 5:32 KJV 32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

S-word-----------When the KJV was revised, that was changed to, “’AFTER’ Noah was 500, he became the father of Shem, Ham and Japheth.

That will do for now. Having proved from scripture that Abraham was born when his father Terah was 70, and not 135, as you and your champion would have everyone believe, in your futile attempt to prove the book of Genesis wrong and the words of Stephen correct.

But as revealed in scripture, Abraham was born when Terah was 70, he moved into the land of Canaan when he was 75 and his father died in Haran at the age of 205, 60 years after his son Abraham had left him, and not after his father had died, as said by Stephen, who like yourself and your champion, was ignorant to the Holy scriptures, which state that Edna the wife of Terah gave birth to Abraham, when Terah was 70 years of age.

Because of the cyclone, there are fallen trees all over my block, and now that the wind is settling down, have to be cut up and carted away, especially one massive black butt ash, which has fallen over the road, so, I have not the time right now, to waste on biblical ignoramuses, who attempt to twist and distort the scriptures to their own destruction.

I will post this when we come back on line, and perhaps tonight I may be able, to return and sort out any other rubbish that you post in your attempt to save face, and thereby embarrass you even more than you have been embarrassed so far.

 

[S-word]

I believe that no one is greater than the Father who is the only true God.

I believe that the spirit son, the logos, was sent to dwell in Jesus, a man, to bring us an understanding of his God. I believe that Jesus was the body God prepared for his logos.

I believe that Jesus Christ is now Lord of all creation, made so by his God and our God.

The logos is a FORM of God, not God. The logos is a created god, the word of the Father. A spirit.

The Greek word “LOGOS” which has been translated as “WORD”, should be seen as ‘The thoughts in the mind which are to be expressed.

John 1: 1; In the beginning was the Word=Logos and the Logos [The supreme personality or controlling mind within the invisible body of God] was one with God. All things came into existence through him, by him and for him. Without him nothing exists.

The root to the word “BRAHMAN” originally meant “SPEECH”, much the same as the “LOGOS” is said to mean ‘WORD,’ but our words or our speech, is merely the expression of the thoughts that are stored in the minds that are we. Both Logos/word and Brahman/speech, should be seen as the gathered information that is waiting to be expressed. The two are one and are in fact, the invisible living universal mind, in which is gathered all of the information of every universal body throughout all eternity. Brahman and Logos, should be seen as the essential divine reality of the universe the eternal spirit from which all being originates, and to which all must return.

You are body, soul and spirit. Your body is created from the universal elements, and it is activated by the universal soul, which is the animating principle that pervades the entire universal body, activating everything within the universe, from the wave particles to the subatomic particles that make up the atoms which are the building blocks of the molecules from which the universal body is created. It is to the universal soul=LIFE-FORCE, that all information = SPIRIT is gathered.

“YOU” the mind, are spirit. The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and prehuman, has been gathered in its evolution to become who you are, and that parental spirit dwells behind the veil of the flesh to the inner most sanctuary of its earthly tabernacle=tent, which is your body.

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and “YOU” who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality = “CONTROLLING GODHEAD” to that body, which godhead should be an obedient servant to “WHO YOU ARE.”

Then of the Thee in Me who works behind
The veil, I lifted up my hands to find
A lamp amid the Darkness; and I heard,
As from Without__ “The Me within Thee is blind.”.... By Omar Khayyam.
,
When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body: “skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc,” has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU = the mind=spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force=soul, from which it will be resurrected in the next cycle of universal activity.*Unless of course, the information=spirit that is “YOU” is divided from the universal life-force, which is the second death. For the spirit=information that is you, can be divided from the universal soul. Hebrews 4: 12.---------“For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. It cuts all the way through to the division of the soul and spirit.”

Today I became the one I am, the one that I was yesterday is gone
The one I’ll be tomorrow I will be: but today I found “I AM Who I Am.”

For I am who I am and may I never lose sight
Of the fact that I am “Who I Am” day and night
I’m not who I was nor who I will be,
For “Who I Am” is the name My God gave to me.

So get behind me you Swamies, you priests and you shams
For I am true to my God, to MY God, “WHO I AM.”

The term, "THE WORD OF GOD," pertains to the sense that is identical to the term “LOGOS” or the mold. The mold by which the whole sense of a thing is given. In other words, the very plan from the outset. In Sanskrit the similar meaning is given in the use of the word 'vach.' Vach means word. But in Sanskrit teachings of the Sanatana Dharma, vach has many levels. Including where the word is first considered as being in the mind as a thought, not as the spoken word or speech.

We humans, may express in our spoken words, all the information that has been gathered through the senses of our bodies in the creation of the invisible minds=spirits that are “WE”. Our word is the expression of “Who we are.” Your words are the expression of the spirit that is “YOU” the mind.

But the “LOGOS=WORD” and BRAHMAN=SPEECH” who are the gathered universal information=spirit of the aeons, express the information that has been gathered to the universal soul as another universal body, which is in the image and likeness to the previous universe, [The Resurrection] in which the eternal Spirit=mind has and can, continue to evolve.

You cannot see me! You can see the intricate living body in which I the mind have developed as the controlling godhead, but you cannot see the spirit that is me.

Nor can you see God! You can see the complex and intricate universal body in which He, the controlling Godhead has developed, but you cannot see the spirit that is The Son of God.

Romans 1: 18; God’s anger is revealed from heaven against all the sin and evil of the people whose evil ways prevent the truth from being known. God punishes them, because what can be known about God is plain to them, for God himself made it plain. Ever since God created the world, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature have been clearly seen in the creation, [which is the expression of all the information that has been gathered to the evolving mind in the eternal invisible being.]

In the Pseudigraphia of the Old Testament, The Lord God says to Adam, “Dust you are and to dust you must return, but when the resurrection comes around again, [The next cycle of universal activity] I will raise you and all of your seed etc.” This is the reality of the resurrection.

The “LOGOS=BRAHMAN,” is the essential divine reality of the Universe, the eternal spirit=mind from which all being originates and to which, all must return. The LOGOS is today as it always was, and will be into all eternity. It is the only true constant in that it is constantly evolving. Show to me a mind that has ceased to evolve, and I will show to you a mind that has ceased to exist...

John 1: 1; In the beginning was the Word=Logos and the Logos [The supreme personality or controlling mind within the invisible body of God] was one with God. All things came into existence through him, by him and for him. Without him nothing exists. In him [God] was life=personality, and that Life was the “LIGHT OF MAN”.

At the close of each period of universal activity, the Godhead or the compilation of all the minds of the Most-High species to have evolved in that period, enters into Brahman or Logos, as the supreme personality of godhead. [The Light of Man] or all the knowledge, wisdom and insight gathered by the androgynous body of mankind, who is the Most High on the ladder of evolution in the physical creation, the life or controlling personality in Brahman or Logos.*

To the Hindu, it is Krishna, the eighth manifestation of “Vishnu the Saviour”, who enters into Brahman at the close of this particular cycle of universal manifestation as the evolved mind in the eternal evolving Brahman God.*To the biblical believer, it is their indwelling Lord, to who is gathered all the spirits of the righteous, who will enter into the Logos God as the supreme personality of Godhead, the LIGHT and Life within the eternal evolving God.

The Omega is the end result of the evolution of the Alpha in this cycle of activity, and the biblical account of creation, as recorded by the chosen earthly scribes who were under the control of the descending futuristic spirit in man, [THE SON OF MAN] was recorded in such a way that it was acceptable to all the ages of man, and is capable of adapting with the changing=evolving concepts of man according to the ever growing accumulation of incoming data.*

For the Word of God can be likened to a star that’s being ever brightened
By the mind of man reaching ever higher, but those who deviate they’re liars
In God’s words man’s mind can grow, but those outside are like the snow
That settles on the desert sand and will melt away before “I AM.”