This day have I begotten you

[daqq]

What happened to the quote from Psalm 2:7? Why is it not found anywhere in the four Gospel accounts? Was the full quote in any of the four Gospel accounts originally? Why does the author of Hebrews speak to his audience as if it should be common knowledge to them that these words were spoken from the Father to Yeshua? Why do we now find only half of the quote within the immersion accounts of Yeshua where the Father speaks from the heavens? There are three known places where the Father speaks from the heavens, which are, the immersion of Yeshua, the transfiguration of Yeshua, (where the Father speaks to the disciples that are with Yeshua in that occasion), and the voice from the heavens in John 12:28. The background from the Septuagint version of Psalm 2 is critical because it does not suggest that the statement was actually made to king David, but rather, that the decree is to be spoken to the Son in a time to come, but first the quote and statement from the epistle to the Hebrews:

Hebrews 1:4-5
4 having become so much better than the messengers, as he has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they:
5 for unto which of the messengers said He ever, "You are My Son, this day have I begotten you", and again, "I will be unto him a Father, and he shall be unto Me a Son"?

By the context from Hebrews 1:1 the "messengers" here are not angels but the Prophets, and king David himself did stand in the role of a prophet, (Peter testifies to this in Acts 2:30a), and therefore it is apparent that even the author of Hebrews agrees that this statement was not spoken to king David himself but rather that David was himself prophesying of Messiah, the Anointed One, for the author of Hebrews qualifies the statement, saying first, "For unto which of the messengers-prophets did He, (the Father), ever say", and this therefore even excludes king David, having been a prophet. With these things in mind it is critical that the only one to whom this statement is made be recorded somewhere in the records concerning the Anointed One Yeshua, and that is, especially if indeed the Father did speak anywhere in the four Gospel accounts to Yeshua; and we know that the Father did indeed speak according to what now remains of those records and writings, (though it appears the writings themselves may have been tampered with early on).

Psalm 2 LXX
1 ινα τι εφρυαξαν εθνη και λαοι εμελετησαν κενα
1 Why did the nations rage and the peoples imagine vain things?
2 παρεστησαν οι βασιλεις της γης και οι αρχοντες συνηχθησαν επι το αυτο κατα του κυριου και κατα του χριστου αυτου διαψαλμα
2 The kings of the earth stood; and the rulers gathered themselves together against YHWH, and against His Anointed One. {Pause}
3 διαρρηξωμεν τους δεσμους αυτων και απορριψωμεν αφ' ημων τον ζυγον αυτων
3 "Let us break their bonds asunder and cast away their yoke from off us!"
4 ο κατοικων εν ουρανοις εκγελασεται αυτους και ο κυριος εκμυκτηριει αυτους
4 The One dwelling in the heavens shall mock them, and the Adonai-Master shall deride them:
5 τοτε λαλησει προς αυτους εν οργη αυτου και εν τω θυμω αυτου ταραξει αυτους
5 at that time he shall speak to them in his anger, and in his passion he will agitate them:
6 εγω δε κατεσταθην βασιλευς υπ' αυτου επι σιων ορος το αγιον αυτου
6 "But I am appointed king under Him upon His holy mount Zion",
7 διαγγελλων το προσταγμα κυριου κυριος ειπεν προς με υιος μου ει συ εγω σημερον γεγεννηκα σε
7 declaring the decree of YHWH, "YHWH has said unto me: You are My Son, this day have I begotten you;
8 αιτησαι παρ' εμου και δωσω σοι εθνη την κληρονομιαν σου και την κατασχεσιν σου τα περατα της γης
8 ask of Me, and I will give you the nations for your inheritance, and you shall possess the extremities of the earth;
9 ποιμανεις αυτους εν ραβδω σιδηρα ως σκευος κεραμεως συντριψεις αυτους
9 you will shepherd them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter shall you break them."
10 και νυν βασιλεις συνετε παιδευθητε παντες οι κρινοντες την γην
10 Now therefore understand, O kings, let the judges of the earth be instructed;
11 δουλευσατε τω κυριω εν φοβω και αγαλλιασθε αυτω εν τρομω
11 serve YHWH with fear, and render exultation unto Him with trembling.
12 δραξασθε παιδειας μηποτε οργισθη κυριος και απολεισθε εξ οδου δικαιας οταν εκκαυθη εν ταχει ο θυμος αυτου μακαριοι παντες οι πεποιθοτες επ' αυτω
12 Take hold of [retain] the Son; lest at any time you anger YHWH, and perish from the way of the Just, when his thumos-passion-fury is a little kindled: blessed are all they who place their trust on him [the Son, the Just].
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/19_002.htm

Psalm 2
Why did the nations rage and the peoples imagine vain things? The kings of the earth stood; and the rulers gathered themselves together against YHWH, and against His Anointed One. {Pause}

"Let us break their bonds asunder and cast away their yoke from off us!"

The One dwelling in the heavens shall mock them, and the Adonai-Master shall deride them: at that time he shall speak to them in his anger, and in his passion he will agitate them, declaring the decree of YHWH:

"But I am appointed king under Him upon His holy mount Zion, YHWH has said unto me: You are My Son, this day have I begotten you; ask of Me, and I will give you the nations for your inheritance, and you shall possess the extremities of the earth; you will shepherd them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter shall you break them."

Now therefore understand, O kings, let the judges of the earth be instructed; serve YHWH with fear, and render exultation unto Him with trembling. Take hold of the Son; lest at any time you anger YHWH, and perish from the way of the Just, when the passion of his fury is a little kindled. Blessed are all they who place their trust on him [the Son, the Just].

So the question is this:

"You are My Son, this day have I begotten you"

Where and when does the Father speak to Yeshua these words from Psalm 2:7 as the author of Hebrews asserts?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

2Sa 7:13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
2Sa 7:15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
2Sa 7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

People stumble over that.

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


LA

 

[daqq]

2Sa 7:13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
2Sa 7:15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
2Sa 7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

People stumble over that.

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


LA

:thumb: Yes, people generally do stumble over that second quote, and we have not even gone there yet.
Thanks for the Hebrews 5:5 quote and it is also found again in Acts 13:33 because at one time it was in Luke 3:22.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You are welcome.

Act 13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
Act 13:30 But God raised him from the dead:
Act 13:31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
Act 13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

LA

 

[daqq]

You are welcome.

Act 13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
Act 13:30 But God raised him from the dead:
Act 13:31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
Act 13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

LA

It is not "raised up Jesus again" because it is not in the sense of resurrection and that is shown by the context, (and both egeiro and anistemi are variously employed in both ways of understanding). The reason why is that Yeshua is the one whom the Father promised to raise up that would be like unto Moshe. In this sense it is "to raise up a prophet" in the land. It is thus not speaking of the resurrection of Yeshua but rather speaking of his immersion. If the full quote had not been expunged from Luke 3:22, (which quotes the full statement from Psalm 2:7 and still exists in the old form in Codex Bezae and some Latin manuscripts), this would have been obvious to the translator and especially to the reader because both Luke and the Acts are from the same author. Some even argue, though it is debatable, that originally the two books came together as one unit.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19 KJV
15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

It is this kind of "raise up" by the context in Acts and the ASV comes very close to saying exactly the same:

Acts 13:32-34 ASV
32 And we bring you good tidings of the promise made unto the fathers,
33 that God hath fulfilled the same unto our children, in that he raised up Jesus; as also it is written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he hath spoken on this wise, I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David.

The "And", (in red), at the beginning of v.34 is not "kai" but the particle "de" which very often should be understood as "but" because it is a particle of separation "but" continuative, (adversative). If we then render it as it is translated in the ASV with only this slight correction the meaning is abundantly clear. The author speaks firstly, in v.33, of the raising up of "that Prophet like unto Moshe" but then goes on to speak of the resurrection of Yeshua by a separate way from a different quote taken from Isaiah in the verse that follows, (v.34).

Acts 13:34
34 οτι δε ανεστησεν αυτον εκ νεκρων μηκετι μελλοντα υποστρεφειν εις διαφθοραν ουτως ειρηκεν οτι δωσω υμιν τα οσια δαυιδ τα πιστα

Acts 13:32-34 ASV Corrected
32 And we bring you good tidings of the promise made unto the fathers,
33 that God hath fulfilled the same unto our children, in that he raised up Jesus; [Deuteronomy 18:18] as also it is written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee [Psalm 2:7, Luke 3:22].
34 But as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he hath spoken on this wise, I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David [Isaiah 55:3].

 

[daqq]

Codex Bezae (D) is one of the four great uncial and most important codices to Christianity:

Luke 3:22 Codex Bezae
22 καὶ καταβῆναι τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον σωματικῷ εἴδει ὡς περιστερὰν εἰς αὐτόν καὶ φωνὴν ἐκ τοῡ οὐρανοῦ γενέσθαι υἱός μου εἶ σὺ ἐγὼ σήμερον γεγέννηκά σε
Codex Bezae Cantabrigiensis

Luke 3:22 Codex Bezae
22 And the Holy Spirit [or Spirit of the Holy One] descended in somatiko-corporeal-bodily form as a dove to-into him, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My Son, this day have I begotten you." [Psalms 2:7 - full quotation]
University of Cambridge - Codex Bezae

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Ok ,leaving out "again", the subject is the raising of Jesus from the dead.

Act 13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
Act 13:30 But God raised him from the dead:
Act 13:31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
Act 13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Act 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

LA

 

[daqq]

Ok ,leaving out "again", the subject is the raising of Jesus from the dead.

Act 13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
Act 13:30 But God raised him from the dead:
Act 13:31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
Act 13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Act 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

LA

From my perspective that makes no sense at all because it eliminates the need for the Witness. The Witness is the Immerser, in fact, the Immerser never touches the one immersing but rather the one immersing immerses himself under the name of the Immerser, (his name is his doctrine). The Immerser simply stands and bears witness to whatsoever he sees and hears. If the Acts passage speaks of the resurrection of Yeshua then what need is there for a Witness in the heavens? The heavens already know at that point who Yeshua is because he had already fulfilled his ministry on earth, had already been crucified, and was at that point resurrected: there is no need for the Witness to testify of what has come to pass to those in the heavens because they would already have known. One thing much of Christianity tends to overlook is the fact that we are called to believe through Yohanan the Immerser, that is, because he is the Witness. This is plainly spelled out in the opening of the Gospel of John, (John 1:7). Additionally, as was hinted at previously, the author of Acts is using the same words from the Septuagint version of Deuteronomy when he speaks of the Father raising up Yeshua to preach the good news message to the people in his earthly ministry:

Deuteronomy 18:15-18 LXX
18:15 προφητην εκ των αδελφων σου ως εμε αναστησει σοι κυριος ο θεος σου αυτου ακουσεσθε
18:16 κατα παντα οσα ητησω παρα κυριου του θεου σου εν χωρηβ τη ημερα της εκκλησιας λεγοντες ου προσθησομεν ακουσαι την φωνην κυριου του θεου ημων και το πυρ το μεγα τουτο ουκ οψομεθα ετι ουδε μη αποθανωμεν
18:17 και ειπεν κυριος προς με ορθως παντα οσα ελαλησαν
18:18 προφητην αναστησω αυτοις εκ των αδελφων αυτων ωσπερ σε και δωσω το ρημα μου εν τω στοματι αυτου και λαλησει αυτοις καθοτι αν εντειλωμαι αυτω
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/05_018.htm

Deuteronomy 18:15-18 LXX Brenton English Translation
15 The Lord thy God shall raise up [αναστησει] to thee a prophet of thy brethren, like me; him shall ye hear:
16 according to all things which thou didst desire of the Lord thy God in Choreb in the day of the assembly, saying, We will not again hear the voice of the Lord thy God, and we will not any more see this great fire, and so we shall not die.
17 And the Lord said to me, They have spoken rightly all that they have said to thee.
18 I will raise up [αναστησω] to them a prophet of their brethren, like thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them as I shall command him.

In the above passage a form of anistemi is used, just as in Acts 13:33, but notice what is used in the resurrection statement which you have now included from the same passage; it is not a form of anistemi but a form of egeiro:

Acts 13:30
30 ο δε θεος ηγειρεν αυτον εκ νεκρων

Acts 13:30 ASV
30 But God raised him from the dead:

This strongly implies that the author is differentiating between the two statements simply by the usage of these two words which are in other places employed almost as if interchangeable; and if that be the case then he most likely does so here because of what is written in Deuteronomy 18:15-18, for when he arrives at Acts 13:33 he writes αναστησας concerning the raising up of Yeshua as "the Prophet like unto Moshe" that everyone had been expecting before the coming of the Prophet sent from Elohim. The Most High Elohim "stood up" His Prophet, a man like unto Moshe from among our brethren, and this would necessarily had to have been at the commencement of the ministry of Yeshua, at the immersion of "The Prophet" of all prophets, (and Yeshua claims the title of Prophet in Luke 13:33).

 

[daqq]

This is like a case in a court of law: unless the Father spoke the words of the decree in Psalm 2:7 to your version of the Anointed One, and unless you have a Witness to testify to that fact, your version of the Anointed One does not qualify as the true Anointed One according to the specifications laid out through king David in the Psalm itself and according to the author of the epistle to the Hebrews as quoted above from Hebrews 1:5 and Hebrews 5:5. Trying to say that the statement was made somewhere outside of time, where no human being could have heard it, only further disqualifies your candidate for the Anointed One.

 

[daqq]

The so-called church fathers admit that the Psalm 2:7 decree in full form was in the "original Matthew", (which was either in Hebrew or Hebrew-Aramaic), which they also then freely admit that they translated into Greek. Whatever happened to the original work nobody knows. Epiphanius calls "the Gospel of the Ebionites" instead the "Hebrew Gospel", but he is now assumed to have confused the matter, either that or he was correct and the issue has been purposely confused to hide what was done, for "the Gospel of the Hebrews" is now thought to possibly have been the original Gospel of Matthew which fairly clearly appears to have been written in either Hebrew or Aramaic. It almost appears that the Gospel of the Hebrews, (original Matthew), was so heavily redacted and mutilated that it had to be translated into Greek by the guilty so as to destroy the innocent. The companion passage in question is Matthew 3:13-17 which in the Gospel of the Hebrews, (or Ebionites), is now suggested to have been a conflation of Mark and Luke, because of what is believed to have been originally written in Luke 3:22 by not a few scholars, as exhibited in the Codex Bezae (D).

Emphasis mine:

And after a good deal more it continues that:

After the people were baptized, Jesus also came and was baptized by John; and as he came up from the water, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Holy Ghost in the likeness of a dove that descended and entered into him: and a voice from heaven saying: Thou art my beloved Son, in thee I am well pleased: and again: This day have I begotten thee. And straightway there shone about the place a great light. Which when John saw (it saith) he saith unto him: Who art thou, Lord? and again there was a voice from heaven saying unto him: This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. And then (it saith) John fell down before him and said: I beseech thee, Lord, baptize thou me. But he prevented him saying: Suffer it (or let it go): for thus it behoveth that all things should be fulfilled.

And on this account they say that Jesus was begotten of the seed of a man, and was chosen; [Luke 9:35 ASV] and so by the choice of God he was called the Son of God from the Christ that came into him from above in the likeness of a dove. And they deny that he was begotten of God the Father, but say that he was created as one of the archangels, yet greater, and that he is Lord of the angels and of all things made by the Almighty, and that he came and taught, as the Gospel (so called) current among them contains, that, 'I came to destroy the sacrifices, and if ye cease not from sacrificing, the wrath of God will not cease from you'[SIZE=-1].[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]*Snip*
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]These fragments show clearly that the Gospel was designed to support a particular set of views. They enable us also to distinguish it from the Gospel according to the Hebrews, for, among other things, the accounts of the Baptism in the two are quite different. Epiphanius is only confusing the issue when he talks of it as the Hebrew Gospel - or rather, the Ebionites may be guilty of the confusion, for he attributes the name to them.
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1] The Gospel according to the Twelve, or 'of the Twelve', mentioned by Origen (Ambrose and Jerome) is identified by Zahn with the Ebionite Gospel. He makes a good case for the identification. If the two are not identical, it can only be said that we know nothing of the Gospel according to the Twelve. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]
The Gospel of the Ebionites

Concerning the Gospel of the Nazoreans, (which they also say is the Gospel of the Ebionites), we find these statements from Jerome:

10. In the Gospel which the Nazarenes and the Ebionites use, which we have recently translated out of Hebrew into Greek, and which is called by most people the authentic (Gospel) of Matthew, the man who had the withered hand is described as a mason who pleaded for help in the following words: "I was a mason and earned (my) livelihood with (my) hands; I beseech thee, Jesus, to restore me to my health that I may not with ignominy have to beg for my bread." (Jerome, Commentary on Matthew 2 [on Matthew 12:13])

21. But in the Gospel which is written in Hebrew characters we read not that the veil of the temple was rent, but that the lintel of the temple of wondrous size collapsed.
(Jerome, Epistula ad Hedybiam 120.8)
The Gospel of the Nazoreans

And Eusebius:

18. But since the Gospel (written) in Hebrew characters which has come into our hands enters the threat not against the man who had hid (the talent), but against him who had lived dissolutely - for he (the master) had three servants: one who squandered his master's substance with harlots and flute-girls, one who multiplied the gain, and one who hid the talent; and accordingly one was accepted (with joy), another merely rebuked, and another cast into prison - I wonder whether in Matthew the threat which is uttered after the word against the man who did nothing may not refer to him, but by epanalepsis to the first who had feasted and drunk with the drunken. (Eusebius, Theophania 22 [on Matthew 25:14-15]
The Gospel of the Nazoreans

Surely there was an original Matthew written in either Hebrew or Hebrew-Aramaic and surely the early "church fathers" got their hands on copies of it and fully admit that they translated it into Greek. We will apparently never know what ever happened to the Hebrew-Aramaic copies but it is fairly clear that the Gospel of the Ebionites also contained the statement from Psalm 2:7, and that Gospel may have actually been the original Matthew, even though it is surmised that the Ebionite Gospel closely followed the Gospel of Luke, (stated in the link provided), for the statement that "he prevented him" and what follows is now only found in the current version of the Gospel of Matthew. Oh what a tangled web the church fathers have woven for their offspring: and by deleting the second half of the Psalm 2:7 decree they have nullified their tainted version of the Anointed One.

:sheep:

 

[Zeke]

2Sa 7:13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
2Sa 7:15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
2Sa 7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

People stumble over that.

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


LA

Even more stumble over Luke 17:20-21, Matt 11:11 as they keep alive the allegory, and historically except it as factual.

 

[daqq]

2Sa 7:13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
2Sa 7:15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
2Sa 7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

People stumble over that.

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


LA

So here once again, in your quote from Hebrews 5:5, the author of Hebrews asserts that the Father spoke the full decree from Psalm 2:7 to the man Yeshua; and that could only have been at his immersion, with Yohanan the Immerser and Witness: for if Yeshua "glorified not himself", (because if he testifies of himself his testimony is not true, John 5:31), then it had to be stated before a witness/witnesses from the One higher than himself, that is, the Father. Such an event cannot have been witnessed "in eternity past", nor "in eternity future", (for example after the resurrection), nor "in the womb" before birth, nor any other time except for somewhere within the natural lifespan of the man Yeshua: for he first had to have been able to either boast it of himself, (which he did not), or he had to have the opportunity to empty himself and wait upon the Father to confirm him, (which he did). All of these things necessitate and require time just as the statement says, "THIS DAY have I begotten you", or "TODAY have I begotten you."

Thus there was a day within time when the Father spoke the decree of Psalm 2:7 to the man Yeshua. At that time, and in that day, the man Yeshua inherited all things from the Father above; just as Hebrews 1:4 suggests when the author states that he has become, ("having become"), so much better than the messengers by way of having inherited a name better than all of the other messengers.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up (anastesas)Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Act 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Act 13:35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

The Father did not say these things at Jesus baptism by John.

LA

 

[daqq]

Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up (anastesas)Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Act 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Act 13:35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

The Father did not say these things at Jesus baptism by John.

LA

That is nothing more than your own private assertion which is woefully lacking in evidence. In addition you and the early church fathers expect everyone to believe that the Father only spoke HALF OF HIS OWN DECREE from Psalm 2:7 at the immersion of Yeshua simply so that certain various doctrines may remain intact. Even if it was only half of the decree which was spoken at the immersion of Yeshua the entire CONTEXT of the passage in which it is found STILL APPLIES simply by the fact that the passage was quoted to begin with. The only real issue is was it originally only half of the decree as it now reads? or was it all of the decree from Psalm 2:7 that was originally quoted in the Gospel accounts at the immersion of Yeshua? Yet, even though we now read only half of the decree, the fact that Psalm 2:7 is even quoted means that the surrounding context was in the mind of the original authors who wrote the words down to begin with. The authors of the ancient texts did not operate and think like modern day Trinitarians with an axe to grind; neither did they pick one liner statements, or even less, half statements, and paste them into their words while supposedly meaning something entirely different from the context in which the words were taken. When a Tanach passage is quoted in the Gospel accounts, (or the epistles and letters), the context from which the quote was taken must be considered because the Tanach context sets the background parameters for the meaning of the passage to the reader. Without this practice one may conjure up whatsoever he or she desires when it comes to the meanings of statements in the Apostolic writings because the context from which the quote was derived has been dislocated and discarded in favor of a tradition, paradigm, or particular doctrine.

Mark 1:11 YLT (Young's Literal Bible)
11 and a voice came out of the heavens, 'Thou art My Son--[Psalm 2:7] the Beloved, in whom I did delight.'

Luke 3:22 YLT (Young's Literal Bible)
22 and the Holy Spirit came down in a bodily appearance, as if a dove, upon him, and a voice came out of heaven, saying, 'Thou art My Son--[Psalm 2:7] the Beloved, in thee I did delight.'

Additionally you now have nothing to support nor confirm the words of Yohanan in Revelation 2:26-27 where he quotes from the same Psalm and the same decree once again. In this instance there is no need to repeat the portion we are presently debating because it was already quoted in the Acts, the epistle to the Hebrews twice, and was quoted in at least two of the Gospel accounts, (now having been removed in favor of the "eternal son doctrine").

Revelation 2:26-27 ASV
26 And he that overcometh, and he that keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give authority over the nations: [Psalm 2:8 paraphrase]
27 and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to shivers; [Psalm 2:9] as I also have received of my Father:

 

[beameup]

“hypostatic union” - The hypostatic union is the personal union of Jesus’ two natures. Jesus has two complete natures—one fully human and one fully divine. What the doctrine of the hypostatic union teaches is that these two natures are permanently united in one person in the God-man. Jesus is not two persons. He is one person. The hypostatic union is the joining of the divine and the human in the one person of Jesus.
In other words, God forever changed himself by unifying Himself with Humans. Will you be one who will participate in eternal fellowship with God because you have been permanently transformed by the Holy Spirit? Or will you be "left out in the cold"?

 

[daqq]

“hypostatic union” - The hypostatic union is the personal union of Jesus’ two natures. Jesus has two complete natures—one fully human and one fully divine. What the doctrine of the hypostatic union teaches is that these two natures are permanently united in one person in the God-man. Jesus is not two persons. He is one person. The hypostatic union is the joining of the divine and the human in the one person of Jesus.
In other words, God forever changed himself by unifying Himself with Humans. Will you be one who will participate in eternal fellowship with God because you have been permanently transformed by the Holy Spirit? Or will you be "left out in the cold"?

That is nothing more than Trinitarian jargon that only sounds good until one puts it to the test. The only begotten Elohim is in the bay or bosom of the Father, never outside, (the Father cannot be contained). Where is it written that the only begotten Elohim has two natures? or that the only begotten Elohim has the nature of Elohim and the nature of a man? The only begotten Elohim does not have the nature of a man and no one has seen Elohim at any time.

John 1:18 Nestle GNT 1904
18 Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε· μονογενὴς Θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ Πατρὸς, ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο.

John 1:18
18 No one has seen Elohim at any time; the only begotten Elohim who is in the bosom of the Father, that one has declared Him.

Also you have said, "God forever changed himself", while the scripture says the Father does not change:

Malachi 3:6
6 For I am YHWH, I change not; therefore you sons of Yaakob are not consumed.

This word rendered "change" in the above passage is H8138 shanah and means to fold, to double, to alter, to transmute or transform. The Father does not double, (Himself), does not change or alter, and does not transmute or transform.

Scrap what you think have and start over while you still can.

 

[daqq]

“hypostatic union” - The hypostatic union is the personal union of Jesus’ two natures. Jesus has two complete natures—one fully human and one fully divine. What the doctrine of the hypostatic union teaches is that these two natures are permanently united in one person in the God-man. Jesus is not two persons. He is one person. The hypostatic union is the joining of the divine and the human in the one person of Jesus.
In other words, God forever changed himself by unifying Himself with Humans. Will you be one who will participate in eternal fellowship with God because you have been permanently transformed by the Holy Spirit? Or will you be "left out in the cold"?

Here is a great place for you to start your new dig:
Hebrew Matthew Baptismal Account

Some highlights:

A. Old Mss. of Matthew Also, “this day I have begotten thee” appears in the following Greek of Matthew: D (Greek) and the Old Latin. (E.B. Nicholson, The Gospel according to the Hebrews (1879) at 40.) Also, in "Codex Bezae and most of the old Latin manuscripts...the voice instead cites Psalm 2:7: 'This day I have begotten thee." (Barbara Aland, Joël Delobel, New Testament textual criticism, exegesis, and early church history (Peeters, 1994) at 120.) http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/235-hebrew-matthew-baptismal-account.html

B. Luke 3:22 In Old Manuscripts The baptismal account of Jesus in Luke 3:22 in old manuscripts likewise had this account that the Father spoke from heaven to Jesus: "This day I have begotten you." A modern study Bible comments on Luke 3:22: "Other ancient authorities read You are my Son, today I have begotten you." (Wayne A. Meeks, Jouette M. Bassler, The HarperCollins Study Bible: New Revised Standard Version (HarperCollins: 1997) at 1962.) The New American commentary reads: “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased: this is the best attested reading in the Greek manuscripts. The Western reading, ‘You are my Son, this day I have begotten you,’ is derived from Psalm 2:7.” http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke3.htm (last accessed 2005.) This reference to a "Western" text that reads "begotten thee" is because it appears in the Greek Western type text known as Codex D. It also appears in many other texts of Luke 3:22. Throckmorton in Gospel Parallels (1992) explains that this variant (“this day I have begotten thee”) exists in some of the oldest versions of Luke such as P4, meaning Paris Papyrus, “third century” (id., x, xviii, 14); S, meaning Sinaiticus, “middle fourth century” (id., xiv, 14); A B, Codex Alexandrinus, “5th century” and Codex Vaticanus, “4th Century” (id., x, 14), and W Manuscript (5th century). http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/235-hebrew-matthew-baptismal-account.html

160 AD, Clement First, the original baptism-of-Jesus account is quoted in Book One, Chapter VI of The Instructor, a work of 160 A.D. by Clement of Alexandria: “For at the moment of the Lord’s baptism there sounded a voice from heaven, as a testimony to the Beloved, ‘Thou art My beloved Son, to-day have I begotten Thee.’” “Ante-Nicene Fathers/Volume II/CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA/The Instructor/Book I/Chapter VI,” at wikisource Alternatively see also, Clement of A., Christ, the Educator, Fathers of the Church (CUA 2010) Vol. 23 at page 25 ("When the Lord was baptized, a voice loudly sounded from heaven, as a witness to him who was beloved, 'Thou art my beloved son, this Day I have begotten thee.") 300 AD, Methodius Methodius (A.D. 260-312), in Part 9, chapter IX in his work, The Banquet of the Ten Virgins; or, Concerning Chastity, is similarly quoting the original baptism-of-Jesus account when we read: “Now, in perfect agreement and correspondence with what has been said, seems to be this which was spoken by the Father from above to Christ when He came to be baptized in the water of the Jordan, ‘Thou art my son: this day have I begotten thee.’” “Ante-Nicene Fathers/Volume VI/Methodius/Banquet of the Ten Virgins/Thekla/Part 9,” wikisource (Schaff) 300 AD, Lactantius Again, in the words of Lactantius (A.D. 260-330), in his The Divine Institutes, book IV, chapter XV, he quotes the original uncorrupted version of the baptism-of-Jesus account: “Then a voice from heaven was heard: ‘Thou art my Son, today have I begotten Thee.’ Which voice is found to have been foretold by David. And the Spirit of God descended upon Him, formed after the appearance of a white dove.” .“Ante-Nicene Fathers/Volume VII/Lactantius/The Divine Institutes/Book IV/Chap. XV,” wikisource (from Schaff). 234 AD, Acts of...Peter and Paul In the Acts of the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul (234 A.D.), it says: “Him therefore to whom the Father said, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten Thee, the chief priests through envy crucified.” .“Ante-Nicene Fathers/Volume VIII/Apocrypha of the New Testament/Acts of the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul/Acts of the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul,” wikisource 230 AD (est.), Origen The same verse also once apparently existed in John’s gospel. In Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, section 32, Origen (died 254) writes evidently quoting John’s gospel upon which he was commenting: “None of these testimonies, however, sets forth distinctly the Savior’s exalted birth; but when the words are addressed to Him, ‘Thou art My Son, this day have I begotten Thee,’ this is spoken to Him by God.” (Early Christian Writings) 96 AD, Clement In the First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians from 96 A.D., written by Clement—a man who was a direct disciple of the Apostle Peter—it says: “But concerning His Son the Lord spoke thus: ‘Thou art my Son, to-day have I begotten Thee.’” (Ccel.org) 165 AD, Justin Lastly, in a writing by Justin (died 165 A.D.) known as the Dialogue of Justin with Tryphon, A Jew, in chapter LXXXVIII, Justin writes about Jesus, clearly referencing the Gospels’ baptism accounts: He was in the habit of working as a carpenter when among men, making ploughs and yokes; by which He taught the symbols of righteousness and an active life; but then the Holy Ghost, and for man’s sake, as I formerly stated, lighted on Him in the form of a dove, and there came at the same instant from the heavens a voice, which was uttered also by David when he spoke, personating Christ, what the Father would say to Him: ‘Thou art My Son: this day have I begottenThee.’ (Justin, Trypho) Justin then goes on to explain to Trypho the Jew—once more obviously quoting the original form of Matthew 3:17 and Luke 3:22: For this devil, when [Jesus] went up from the river Jordan, at the time when the voice spake to Him, “Thou art my Son: this day have I begotten Thee,” is recorded in the memoirs of the apostles to have come to Him and tempted Him, even so far as to say to Him, “Worship me;” and Christ answered him, “Get thee behind me, Satan: thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve.” Id., ch. CII. Other Christian writers predating 400AD who found the same passage in Matthew are Juvencus, Evangeliorum Libri Quattor, I 360-64 and Hilary, De Trinitate, VIII, 25, Tyconius, Reg. 1 http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/235-hebrew-matthew-baptismal-account.html

E. Christians Quote Matthew and Luke Against Church Orthodox Views But Quote Accepted As Fact From Luke Similarly, the phrase ‘this day I have begotten thee’ was quoted by Faustus ca. 400 AD from both Matthew and Luke’s Gospel as having been uttered at Jesus’ baptism. Faustus was made to appear unorthodox as this verse was being removed from Matthew's Gospel post Nicea 325 AD, and yet Faustus held on to the view that Jesus, the Son of David, was not born Son of God but became Son of God at his baptism. This also ran afoul of the late doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church that Jesus was the 'eternal' Son of God, which doctrine emerged at Nicea in 325 AD under Emperor Constantine's influence. (His goal was to alter Jesus to match Constantine's favored deity - Sol Invictus. See our article "Council of Nicea.") Augustine in his point-by-point rebuttal in 400 A.D. does not dispute this is how Luke read. In 400 AD approximately, Augustine disputes only how Matthew then read. (Remember, however, the Hebrew Matthew originally had the 'This day I have begotten thee" at Jesus' baptism. See above.) We find this Faustus-Augustine exchange in Schaff’s Augustin: The Writings Against the Manicheans and Against the Donatists, in Book XXIII (1890) at 313. Schaff recounts Faustus’ points about the Matthew passage when read in light of Luke: http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/235-hebrew-matthew-baptismal-account.html

You see it is not just Codex Bezae but quite a few lesser manuscripts, and many of them Latin, meaning that the early church fathers knew full well all about this reading because it was original; and the large amount of patristic evidence and discussion about it in their writings and arguments proves beyond doubt what has been laid out in this thread.

:sheep:

 

[Zeke]

Or a better way enter into you're closet/skull/temple and learn directly from the source you came from instead of second and third hand sources claiming to be the way.

 

[beameup]

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten [prōtotokos] into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. - Hebrews 1:5-6
But unto the Son God saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. - Hebrews 1:8

 

[keypurr]

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten [prōtotokos] into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. - Hebrews 1:5-6
But unto the Son God saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. - Hebrews 1:8

Define "O God"

Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: