These are NOT the same gospel

glorydaz

Well-known member
So you doubt there is only one Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The Gospel of the Kingdom is what Jesus and the Apostles preached. That is the good news that Jesus would rule on this earth as King.

The Gospel of Salvation by grace through faith that Paul preached was most certainly different. It was belief in the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
That last paragraph is a lie. Why do you believe lies?

Firstly, Paul went there to explain HIS GOSPEL to them. If they were identical gospels, that makes NO sense whatsoever.

Second, this event was SEVENTEEN YEARS after Paul started preaching HIS gospel.

Thirdly, note the language that Paul uses: "perceived the grace that was given unto me". Was this same grace not given to them?
It is only a lie if you believe in more than one Gospel.
 

Derf

Well-known member
NOTE: FOR MANY....
Why not ALL?
More than just the Jews.

Matthew 26:12-13 (KJV) 12 For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did [it] for my burial. 13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, [there] shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
That last paragraph is a lie. Why do you believe lies?

Firstly, Paul went there to explain HIS GOSPEL to them. If they were identical gospels, that makes NO sense whatsoever.

Second, this event was SEVENTEEN YEARS after Paul started preaching HIS gospel.

Thirdly, note the language that Paul uses: "perceived the grace that was given unto me". Was this same grace not given to them?
Exactly and Paul says very explicitly he had conferred with none of the Apostles before passing on the Gospel of Grace the RISEN LORD had given to him.
 

Right Divider

Body part
More than just the Jews.

Matthew 26:12-13 (KJV) 12 For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did [it] for my burial. 13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, [there] shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
THIS gospel... the gospel of the kingdom... they did not even know about the gospel of the grace of God at that time.

John 4:22 (KJV)
(4:22) Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
So then the Gospel preached by Peter is irrelevant?
Not irrelevant, just postponed. He and the rest were looking for this.

The Gospel of the Kingdom would have come in IF the Jews had not rejected their Messiah and crucified Him on the cross.

Isaiah 9:
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Not irrelevant, just postponed. He and the rest were looking for this.

The Gospel of the Kingdom would have come in IF the Jews had not rejected their Messiah and crucified Him on the cross.

Isaiah 9:
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
There are actually Dispensationalists in the Bible. They are the ones who thought the Lord was coming preaching what you all call the 'Kingdom Gospel'. They appear occasionally in the Gospel accounts (sometimes the Disciples themselves are Dispensationalists) and in early Acts, when they----even at the Ascension----still ask about the coming of the earthly kingdom.

The lesson of the New Testament is not to read the thing thinking the Dispensationalists are the protagonists, they're always either corrected or ignored; it's to notice that what everybody thought was coming, is not what was coming. The Lord brought the New Covenant to the earth, He was dedicating the 'New Testament' with His blood and body on the altar of the cross; our High Priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

Peter was one of the Dispensationalists in the Gospels, that's for sure. But part of the story of Acts shows how he came to learn the full nature of what the Lord was preaching when He walked this earth. It took at least one altercation with newly 'minted' Apostle Paul to set Peter straight, but afterward, there isn't any necessary indication that Peter was still talking about the 'Kingdom Gospel' in Acts or in his letters.

And remember Galatians was written very early in terms of New Testament books. What Paul recounted there was past, no later than the year AD 50. We don't have any reason to necessarily think that Peter didn't learn his lesson, and while it's granted that 1st Peter was written seemingly to particularly 'Jewish' church assemblies ('Jewish' here meaning any of Abraham's descendants, not just those of Judah, so including what are called 'Samaritans' in the Gospels as well), there is also a distinct lack of instruction to be circumcised, and there is a certain promulgation of the sacrificial death and Resurrection of the Lord.

Peace.
 

Right Divider

Body part
There are actually Dispensationalists in the Bible. They are the ones who thought the Lord was coming preaching what you all call the 'Kingdom Gospel'. They appear occasionally in the Gospel accounts (sometimes the Disciples themselves are Dispensationalists) and in early Acts, when they----even at the Ascension----still ask about the coming of the earthly kingdom.
And they rightly asked about the kingdom... because Christ Himself had taught them about the kingdom.

God had promised them:
  • A kingdom
  • A King
  • A land
God does NOT renege on His promises.
The lesson of the New Testament is not to read the thing thinking the Dispensationalists are the protagonists, they're always either corrected or ignored; it's to notice that what everybody thought was coming, is not what was coming. The Lord brought the New Covenant to the earth, He was dedicating the 'New Testament' with His blood and body on the altar of the cross; our High Priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

Peter was one of the Dispensationalists in the Gospels, that's for sure. But part of the story of Acts shows how he came to learn the full nature of what the Lord was preaching when He walked this earth. It took at least one altercation with newly 'minted' Apostle Paul to set Peter straight, but afterward, there isn't any necessary indication that Peter was still talking about the 'Kingdom Gospel' in Acts or in his letters.

And remember Galatians was written very early in terms of New Testament books. What Paul recounted there was past, no later than the year AD 50. We don't have any reason to necessarily think that Peter didn't learn his lesson, and while it's granted that 1st Peter was written seemingly to particularly 'Jewish' church assemblies ('Jewish' here meaning any of Abraham's descendants, not just those of Judah, so including what are called 'Samaritans' in the Gospels as well), there is also a distinct lack of instruction to be circumcised, and there is a certain promulgation of the sacrificial death and Resurrection of the Lord.

Peace.
A load of :poop:
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
So then the Gospel preached by Peter is irrelevant?
Peter was preaching they had to endure to the end
There are actually Dispensationalists in the Bible. They are the ones who thought the Lord was coming preaching what you all call the 'Kingdom Gospel'. They appear occasionally in the Gospel accounts (sometimes the Disciples themselves are Dispensationalists) and in early Acts, when they----even at the Ascension----still ask about the coming of the earthly kingdom.

The lesson of the New Testament is not to read the thing thinking the Dispensationalists are the protagonists, they're always either corrected or ignored; it's to notice that what everybody thought was coming, is not what was coming. The Lord brought the New Covenant to the earth, He was dedicating the 'New Testament' with His blood and body on the altar of the cross; our High Priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

Peter was one of the Dispensationalists in the Gospels, that's for sure. But part of the story of Acts shows how he came to learn the full nature of what the Lord was preaching when He walked this earth. It took at least one altercation with newly 'minted' Apostle Paul to set Peter straight, but afterward, there isn't any necessary indication that Peter was still talking about the 'Kingdom Gospel' in Acts or in his letters.

And remember Galatians was written very early in terms of New Testament books. What Paul recounted there was past, no later than the year AD 50. We don't have any reason to necessarily think that Peter didn't learn his lesson, and while it's granted that 1st Peter was written seemingly to particularly 'Jewish' church assemblies ('Jewish' here meaning any of Abraham's descendants, not just those of Judah, so including what are called 'Samaritans' in the Gospels as well), there is also a distinct lack of instruction to be circumcised, and there is a certain promulgation of the sacrificial death and Resurrection of the Lord.

Peace.
Well, there's definitely a time of transitioning once the Jews crucified their Messiah.

I think, though, from what Peter and James and Jude write they were still waiting for the Kingdom, and that Kingdom will still come.
You should start a thread on that.
 

Derf

Well-known member
1 Corinthians 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
I didn't say it was not important--just not "the gospel". Jesus dying for our sins is of no use without the resurrection.
Death is not the gospel.
Life is the gospel.
 

Derf

Well-known member
THIS gospel... the gospel of the kingdom... they did not even know about the gospel of the grace of God at that time.
This gospel indeed! And the only gospel mentioned in the passage to which "this" might apply, would be? The death of Christ. And John gives us just a wee bit more info, explaining that the "woman" was Mary, the sister of Lazarus. You remember him--the dead guy who came back to life, who happened to be sitting at the table with Jesus when he talked of this gospel. I can't guarantee it, but I imagine Jesus pointed at Mary's brother when he said "this gospel"! It's about the resurrection. Same as Paul's gospel.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
I didn't say it was not important--just not "the gospel". Jesus dying for our sins is of no use without the resurrection.
Death is not the gospel.
Life is the gospel.
I didn't mean to imply you thought it not important. I'd just found another verse that spoke to the subject at hand.

But, you're incorrect, for without the death, there would be no life.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Yes, the gospel you said Jesus didn't tell them about. About his death.
Hmmm. I'm not seeing your point. The Gospel of the Kingdom was what Jesus preached, it was about the coming Kingdom on earth.

Jesus did talk to the apostles about his upcoming death, and even His resurrection that had been prophesied, but they really couldn't fathom it. That seems pretty clear by everything they said and did, but I may be wrong.

But the gospel of grace was not preached until Paul.
He's the one who preached we are saved by grace through faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
 
Top