ECT There is one God who justifies

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Danoh

New member
Nang said:
I appreciate your effort and the time you put into your post, but all you had to say, is the above.

For that is the crux of the discussion.

You believe man exercises initial faith, and I do not. I do not believe saving faith is inherent to the corrupted human nature. I believe saving faith is a supernatural gift from God, by which sinners realize their forgiveness solely upon belief in the power and righteousness of Jesus Christ, imputed to their account, based upon His blood offering on their behalf.

Upon that initial faith, the presence of Christ's Holy Spirit builds the new believers confidence and assurance with revelations and lessons of faith, added to faith.

Faith is organic. It builds upon itself. It is evidentiary of a permanent forensic ruling and total pardon received from God.

I could go on . . but because we hold differing premises, our conclusions will never match.
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No offense intended by the following, nang: it is merely my observation of where someone like you is coming from.

Your posts recurrently display the background of much time in the writings of men read into the Scriptures by you.

In said writings of men, said writers compare the assertions of other writers from one system or another.

They do so from within their own system's method of reasoning about one thing or another.

I know this from reading and continuing to read my share of said books "about" simply out of my curiosity with how reasoning works in people, in general.

In contrast, however: during my study of one thing or another having to do with Scripture; I do not rely on one or another of the various systems of reasoning about one another's reasoning; I go to the Scripture for what to think about the Scripture.

And my question while in the Scripture is ever a basic one - 'what was this writer talking about and or addressing, when he then followed that with what is now saying next?'

As in Ephesians 2 - Paul was talking about an enmity between Israelites and Gentiles, when he then said what he said after that.

It is a simple question many fail to ask.

It is what happens when one is weaned on the writings and or teachings of others: one barely learns how to study a thing out on one's own, let alone; properly.

THAT is why I went into those passages.

Based on that question; the passages I cited then filled in that question's answer.

This is a point I continue to find those over weaned on other's books and or teachings "about" ever fail to grasp.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Danoh said:
No offense intended by the following, nang: it is merely my observation of where someone like you is coming from.

Your posts recurrently display the background of much time in the writings of men read into the Scriptures by you.

In said writings of men, said writers compare the assertions of other writers from one system or another.

They do so from within their own system's method of reasoning about one thing or another.

I know this from reading and continuing to read my share of said books "about" simply out of my curiosity with how reasoning works in people, in general.

In contrast, however: during my study of one thing or another having to do with Scripture; I do not rely on one or another of the various systems of reasoning about one another's reasoning; I go to the Scripture for what to think about the Scripture.

And my question while in the Scripture is ever a basic one - 'what was this writer talking about and or addressing, when he then followed that with what is now saying next?'

As in Ephesians 2 - Paul was talking about an enmity between Israelites and Gentiles, when he then said what he said after that.

It is a simple question many fail to ask.

It is what happens when one is weaned on the writings and or teachings of others: one barely learns how to study a thing out on one's own, let alone; properly.

THAT is why I went into those passages.

Based on that question; the passages I cited then filled in that question's answer.

This is a point I continue to find those over weaned on other's books and or teachings "about" ever fail to grasp.
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You are assuming wrongly.

I spent years under Dispensational teaching, and it was by intense study of Holy Scripture alone, that I came to my beliefs that sinners are justified by faith, alone, by the gift and regenerating power of God, alone.

Under the Dispie teaching, I learnt that commentaries were BAD. No one was allowed to read anything other than the Bible and maybe some Ironside . . but only the publications possessed by the church library.

So when my husband and I began seeing the emphasis on Covenant and the Doctrines of Grace on our own (through the leading of the Holy Spirit), we stayed with reading the bible only, and never touched a commentary, creed, confession, or Calvinistic book for years and years.

It was at least ten years or more, after we were convicted of our beliefs, that we were introduced to a Presbyterian Pastor's library. I remember the first book I chose to read (apart from our regular bible reading), was authored by B.B. Warfield, and it was with immense joy to discover validation of what we had learned from bible study, clearly reflected in his theology.

So accusing me of parroting others is offensive, for the Truth that I hold to, has been deeply instilled into my heart and mind by the Word and Spirit of God, alone.
 
D

Danoh

New member
Nang said:
You are assuming wrongly.

I spent years under Dispensational teaching, and it was by intense study of Holy Scripture alone, that I came to my beliefs that sinners are justified by faith, alone, by the gift and regenerating power of God, alone.

Under the Dispie teaching, I learnt that commentaries were BAD. No one was allowed to read anything other than the Bible and maybe some Ironside . . but only the publications possessed by the church library.

So when my husband and I began seeing the emphasis on Covenant and the Doctrines of Grace on our own (through the leading of the Holy Spirit), we stayed with reading the bible only, and never touched a commentary, creed, confession, or Calvinistic book for years and years.

It was at least ten years or more, after we were convicted of our beliefs, that we were introduced to a Presbyterian Pastor's library. I remember the first book I chose to read (apart from our regular bible reading), by B.B. Warfield, and it was with immense joy to discover validation of what we had learned from bible study, clearly reflected in his theology.

So accusing me of parroting others is offensive, for the Truth that I hold to, has been deeply instilled into my heart and mind by the Spirit of God, alone.
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nang, you can decide to allow yourself to take personal offense to having a thing asserted and or pointed out to you, or you can decide to place your faith in what you have asserted in your above post your rest is in.

Your reading a personal offense into my above words to you just shows you are not led of the Spirit as you believe.

Shows that that is merely your assertion of how the Spirit works, this side of that which is perfect.

Your reasoning is that of the writers of the various commentaries you found you agreed with.

Whether before, or after your reading of them.

That is why you found their reasoning aligned with yours.

You can take offense to that; or actually pause to reflect on what possible validity my observation here might actually hold.

Do yourself a favor - let those on here who are ever taking personal offense to anything pointed out to them - let them be the ones who hold themselves back by that.

Acts 17:11
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Danoh said:
nang, you can decide to allow yourself to take personal offense to having a thing asserted and or pointed out to you, or you can decide to place your faith in what you have asserted in your above post your rest is in.
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You betcha, and I choose the latter. :D

Your reading a personal offense into my above words to you just shows you are not led of the Spirit as you believe.
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This is also an offensive thing for you to post. I have walked with the Lord Jesus Christ for over 45 years; gone through many trials and testings, while enjoying daily blessings centered in learning Truth, and I have retained a rest and peace that passes understanding, all through the good and bads of life. In fact, the worst times have revealed God's mercy and presence alongside me, the most.

You cannot convince me my testimony of being indwelt and comforted with the presence of the Holy Spirit is not real.

Shows that that is merely your assertion of how the Spirit works, this side of that which is perfect.
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If you think He works differently, I feel sorry for you . . .

Your reasoning is that of the writers of the various commentaries you found you agreed with.

Whether before, or after your reading of them.
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I experienced several years of brainwashing in a false dispensational assembly, and it was only being led into the Truth of Holy Scripture, that rescued me from their attempts to damage my mind.

It is because God gave me a genuine love of, and desire to know the Truth of God, that saw me clear. When one is exposed to the ugly, dark, and false, finding the light is unmistakable.

That is why you found their reasoning aligned with yours.
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There are many fine Christians, that have authored many fine testimonies and books in this world, that I guess you have not discovered yet. God has always preserved a remnant of true believers amidst the multitudes of false teachers . . there are not many of us but we find each other and recognize each other.

It is almost beyond explanation for those who are not seeking absolute Truth.
 
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Danoh

New member
Nang said:
You betcha, and I choose the latter. :D



This is also an offensive thing for you to post. I have walked with the Lord Jesus Christ for over 45 years; gone through many trials and testings, while enjoying daily blessings centered in learning Truth, and I have retained a rest and peace that passes understanding, all through the good and bads of life. In fact, the worst times have revealed God's mercy and presence alongside me, the most.

You cannot convince me my testimony of being indwelt and comforted with the presence of the Holy Spirit is not real.



If you think He works differently, I feel sorry for you . . .



I experienced several years of brainwashing in a false dispensational assembly, and it was only being led into the Truth of Holy Scripture, that rescued me from their attempts to damage my mind.

It is because God gave me a genuine love of, and desire to know the Truth of God, that saw me clear. When one is exposed to the ugly, dark, and false, finding the light is unmistakable.



There are many fine Christians, that have authored many fine testimonies and books in this world, that I guess you have not discovered yet. God has always preserved a remnant of true believers amidst the multitudes of false teachers . . there are not many of us but we find each other and recognize each other.

It is almost beyond explanation for those who are not seeking absolute Truth.
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Problem is; a Buddhist will assert a version of all that also - including the "leading."

There is no objectivity in your above.

But you are convinced you are right and have years down that road.

It is what is, for some - confirmation bias concluded their "objectivity."

I don't dislike you for it, nor do I see the need to spit on you for it.

You have enough of that supposed "grace" on here.

Your above are your convictions.

Which you should hold to; til you see differently, Rom. 14:5, nang.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
No difference indeed. That's also what 'from faith to faith' means in ch 1. Why is it D'ists are constantly prowling for fractures?
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:chuckle:

Read Hebrews 11, and tell us why "by faith" is used many times and "through faith" once or twice.
God has reasons for doing what he does.
 
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Danoh

New member
SaulToPaul said:
By faith and through faith has nothing to do with your hybrid accusations.
I'd like to know how they are "the same".
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Romans 5:1's use of the phrase "by faith" shows said use depends on context, not on your declaration a thing is so because you erroneously declare it is.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Danoh said:
Lol - No, you don't.
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Hebrews 11
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
 
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