There is no "Popular Vote" winner.

[Ktoyou]

Most people don't understand how the electoral college works very well, so I doubt you'd get a lot of change in how people voted.

You think most persons are very stupid

 

[Ktoyou]

The problem is the districts are gerrymandered. If you went with congressional districts you'd actually get a worse outcome than the current electoral college. That's a very bad idea for democracy.

You liberals always have an excuse and a reason to complain about why things are as they are. I have heard these silly complaints for 60 years now.

 

[Alate_One]

You think most persons are very stupid

Stupid and ignorant are two different things. I base what I'm saying on polling. Most people can't name the speaker of the house or know who is in control of congress, and who fought the USA in the revolutionary war, among other things. The electoral college is arcane and confusing, so the average joe isn't likely to understand it. Virtually everyone posting in a politics section of an online forum isn't an average joe in terms of political knowledge.

 

[Alate_One]

You liberals always have an excuse and a reason to complain about why things are as they are. I have heard these silly complaints for 60 years now.

It's not an excuse it's reality. Millions more people have voted for democratic congressmen over republican congressmen, and yet which party still controls the house?

 

[Ktoyou]

It's not an excuse it's reality. Millions more people have voted for democratic congressmen over republican congressmen, and yet which party still controls the house?

For me, the preferred one. Why do you think this is? Enthrall me with your insight.

 

[Alate_One]

For me, the preferred one. Why do you think this is? Enthrall me with your insight.

Gerrymandering and population concentration. People are voting against Republicans but republicans used the census results and backlash election of 2010 to gerrymander a variety of states to keep them in power AGAINST the will of the people going forward.

Obama won Pennsylvania by 300,000 votes in 2012 and yet this is what their congressional districts looked like:

Republicans 13 Democrats 5

And mind you, more people voted for the democratic congressmen than the republicans.

 

[Ktoyou]

Gerrymandering and population concentration.

Fine and good, but this has nothing to do with the reason i prefer it, or why it works as it does, not that it works well enough.

 

[Alate_One]

Fine and good, but this has nothing to do with the reason i prefer it, or why it works as it does, not that it works well enough.

If the result is unfair, you're showing that you WANT an unfair result because it benefits your preferred side. You don't actually want democracy.

 

[Ktoyou]

If the result is unfair, you're showing that you WANT an unfair result because it benefits your preferred side. You don't actually want democracy.

Maybe that is true, yet I prefer you to expand on this? Did George Washington hold a strong preference for democracy? What about Thomas Jefferson?

 

[Ktoyou]

Stupid and ignorant are two different things. I base what I'm saying on polling. Most people can't name the speaker of the house[/URL] or know who is in control of congress, and who fought the USA in the revolutionary war, among other things.[/URL] The electoral college is arcane and confusing, so the average joe isn't likely to understand it. Virtually everyone posting in a politics section of an online forum isn't an average joe in terms of political knowledge.

A good argument for mandating literacy tests. Average Joe need to know more to vote!

 

[fool]

Something like that might help prevent wasted votes due to our current EC system. But my post was mostly about how our winner-take-all elections lead to a two-party system. I'd like to move toward a system that makes third parties more viable.

If every state split their votes then a three way run would be more possible. Being able to gouge out a few votes in each state with your core supporters. Say you're the hipster candidate, and your Liberal but not inner city Liberal. You might be able to peel off the yuppies like yourself from the edge of the city. You would find more like yourself around the nation in similar socio economic stratum, rather than being regional. You would stand a chance of getting traction by showing you could take a district here and there without conquering all of California, or Arkansas.

 

[fool]

Last I checked we have three separate and supposedly equal branches of government. The senate has a tremendous amount of power and gives every state regardless of size equal representation. Why should we continue to bias our choice of president towards small states as well?

Because it's cooked into the sauce.

 

[fool]

Gerrymandering and population concentration. People are voting against Republicans but republicans used the census results and backlash election of 2010 to gerrymander a variety of states to keep them in power AGAINST the will of the people going forward.

Obama won Pennsylvania by 300,000 votes in 2012 and yet this is what their congressional districts looked like:

Republicans 13 Democrats 5

And mind you, more people voted for the democratic congressmen than the republicans.

How would you fix that?
How would you fix all of it?
Is the Senate still OK?

 

[Alate_One]

Maybe that is true, yet I prefer you to expand on this? Did George Washington hold a strong preference for democracy? What about Thomas Jefferson?

Do we decide what is right based on what two people's opinions from 200 years ago who thought it was okay to hold slaves and keep them (and women) from voting?

 

[Alate_One]

How would you fix that?

Mixed Member Proportional representation is probably the best fix.

How would you fix all of it?

Vote for president based on popular vote. Make federal election days holidays. Extend voting days in all states. Give everyone a free national ID.

Nothing is ever 100% fixed, but we have learned what the problems are with our system of government. The problem is we're unwilling to fix them.

Is the Senate still OK?

The senate is it's own type of gerrymandering, but it can't be changed based on what party is in power, aside from adding states. Puerto Rico and DC here we come!

 

[Alate_One]

Because it's cooked into the sauce.

Women and people of color not voting was cooked into the sauce. As was selection of senators by the state government. Because it's there, doesn't make it right or mean it shouldn't be changed.

 

[fool]

Mixed Member Proportional representation is probably the best fix.

Vote for president based on popular vote. Make federal election days holidays. Extend voting days in all states. Give everyone a free national ID.

Nothing is ever 100% fixed, but we have learned what the problems are with our system of government. The problem is we're unwilling to fix them.


The senate is it's own type of gerrymandering, but it can't be changed based on what party is in power, aside from adding states. Puerto Rico and DC here we come!

I don't think any of what you said is ever going to happen.

 

[fool]

Women and people of color not voting was cooked into the sauce. As was selection of senators by the state government. Because it's there, doesn't make it right or mean it shouldn't be changed.

I don't see any changes happening.

 

[Alate_One]

I don't think any of what you said is ever going to happen.

If it gets bad enough our country will go into revolt and then another system will replace what we have now. Maybe Trump will bring it on. Maybe he'll make enough people mad that these kinds of changes will happen. Maybe we'll limp along for another 50 years, who knows.

I would hesitate to say never to anything. If you'd asked the founding fathers I'm sure they would have thought women would never vote.

 

[kmoney]

Most people don't understand how the electoral college works very well, so I doubt you'd get a lot of change in how people voted. Some, and maybe in a close election that would change things but in the popular vote we have, the election wasn't close.

It could be true that most people don't know all the details of the EC but they know enough to know that if they live in a lop-sided blue or red state then their vote won't really matter if they go the other way.