The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace

[thelaqachisnext]

The heresy of MAD doctrine is that Paul never commanded anyone to disobey the Great commission, which is in effect for the entire age of the One Church.

Paul submitted to water baptism and baptized more than a few persons in water who heard him and obeyed the Gospel; and all who heard Paul were baptized in water -"for the dead".

"The dead" is the dead Adam spirit/nature we are born in, and water baptism identifies us with the death of Christ for our "old man nature"; and identifies us with His burial for our "old man nature" -and we identify with Him as our Scapegoat, by His taking our sins and iniquities to Sheol and leaving them there; and water baptism identifies us with His resurrection in "Perfection" =body, soul and Spirit whole forever, never to die.
We who are identified with His resurrection by the coming up out of the waters of baptism have agreed with His identifying Himself with our "old man" on the cross, and having buried the old man symbolically, we count ourselves dead [cut off] from the old man nature and alive in the New Man nature, in which we are risen with Christ by the adoption as sons, which is the joining of us to His One New Man Living spirit.

 

[Bob Hill]

We also see that in Colossians Paul reiterates his unique ministry that the ascended God gave only to him.

Col 1:24-27 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions for Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 25&26 of which I became a minister according to the dispensation of God which was given to me for you, to complete the word of God, the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages and from the generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ among you, the hope of glory. :bannana:

Getting back to Eph 1:3-10: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Him.

In Christ, The :king:
Bob Hill

 

[thelaqachisnext]

Grace is received at the Mercy Seat of YHWH, where His glory dwells.
The true heavenly Throne of Grace is the very Stone of stumbling "Laid in Zion" as the Kinsman/Redeemer; who became the Strait [bound] Gate into the city of God, which the Righteous enter in by.
Paul understood this as the Living Oracles taught him -for Paul was a good student of the Teacher after the Son of Man/Son of God come in flesh, risen and glorified was "revealed to Him", on the road to Damascus, as the formerly "Hidden in God Mystery"; who was to come and is come and shall come; Who was the secret "hidden in God" Son of Man "from the beginning"; whose name was secret until He was "Revealed" as the Israel of God, the Word come in New Man creation human being flesh.

that New Man nature in which the Word of God is come is the True Mercy Seat represented in the Oracles as that Seat of solid gold in the Secret Place [in the Oracle where the Glory dwelt] which received the acceptable offering once, for all in Adam, and the way is open through that "strait Gate" for each and every 'seed in Adam' to come into the Kingdom of God's Dear Son -and be sons of God in Christ, filled with the Glory of the Father.

Paul's understanding and explanations, as a scribe, are taken from the OT;

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Paul says God has "set forth" [openly displayed His dead body] Jesus Christ [the] "Mercy Seat"

"Mercy Seat" hilasterion [AV - propitiation 1, mercyseat 1; 2]
1) relating to an appeasing or expiating, having placating or expiating force, expiatory; a means of appeasing or expiating, a propitiation

a) used of the cover of the ark of the covenant in the Holy of Holies, which was sprinkled with the blood of the expiatory victim on the annual day of atonement... hence the lid of expiation, the propitiatory

b) an expiatory sacrifice


"set forth" protithemai
1) to place before, to set forth
a) to set forth to be looked at, expose to view
b) to expose to public view
1) of the bodies of the dead
2) to let lie in state
c) a expiatory victim

Paul preaches that the dead body of Jesus Christ was exposed by God [when the vale was split] as the Mercy Seat.

The splitting of the vale by God, from above, was the sign that the sin of Adam which separated us and kept us cut off from the Father's glory was covered and we are accepted forever; and the Way is open to come in, through that Strait Gate -but no one goes in without the Garments of glory covering them, which were represented in the Living Oracles by the High Priest's garments "made for beauty and for glory", when he/they would go in, serving as "Christ" in the yearly "dress rehearsal" for the final performance.

 

[Bob Hill]

thelaqachisnext,

wrote

all who heard Paul were baptized in water -"for the dead".

Ha ha! Where?

Bob

 

[thelaqachisnext]

Grace is received at the Mercy Seat of YHWH, where His glory dwells.
The true heavenly Throne of Grace is the very Stone of stumbling "Laid in Zion" as the Kinsman/Redeemer; who became the Strait [bound] Gate into the city of God, which the Righteous enter in by.
Paul understood this as the Living Oracles taught him -for Paul was a good student of the Teacher after the Son of Man/Son of God come in flesh, risen and glorified was "revealed to Him", on the road to Damascus, as the formerly "Hidden in God Mystery"; who was to come and is come and shall come; Who was the secret "hidden in God" Son of Man "from the beginning"; whose name was secret until He was "Revealed" as the Israel of God, the Word come in New Man creation human being flesh.

that New Man nature in which the Word of God is come is the True Mercy Seat represented in the Oracles as that Seat of solid gold in the Secret Place [in the Oracle where the Glory dwelt] which received the acceptable offering once, for all in Adam, and the way is open through that "strait Gate" for each and every 'seed in Adam' to come into the Kingdom of God's Dear Son -and be sons of God in Christ, filled with the Glory of the Father.

Paul's understanding and explanations, as a scribe, are taken from the OT;

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Paul says God has "set forth" [openly displayed His dead body] Jesus Christ [the] "Mercy Seat"

"Mercy Seat" hilasterion [AV - propitiation 1, mercyseat 1; 2]
1) relating to an appeasing or expiating, having placating or expiating force, expiatory; a means of appeasing or expiating, a propitiation

a) used of the cover of the ark of the covenant in the Holy of Holies, which was sprinkled with the blood of the expiatory victim on the annual day of atonement... hence the lid of expiation, the propitiatory

b) an expiatory sacrifice


"set forth" protithemai
1) to place before, to set forth
a) to set forth to be looked at, expose to view
b) to expose to public view
1) of the bodies of the dead
2) to let lie in state
c) a expiatory victim

Paul preaches that the dead body of Jesus Christ was exposed by God [when the vale was split] as the Mercy Seat.

The splitting of the vale by God, from above, was the sign that the sin of Adam which separated us and kept us cut off from the Father's glory was covered and we are accepted forever; and the Way is open to come in, through that Strait Gate -but no one goes in without the Garments of glory covering them, which were represented in the Living Oracles by the High Priest's garments "made for beauty and for glory", when he/they would go in, serving as "Christ" in the yearly "dress rehearsal" for the final performance.

When Jesus rose from the dead, He fulfilled the making of the disciples "One" in Him, who is Himself "One" in the Father.
The "One New Man" began to be joined to, in Spirit, when He breathed on His disciples and said "Receive ye the Holy Ghost". they were that moment joined to the One Living Spirit of Regeneration, by adoption.

Being made joint heirs with Him, He sent the Glory to them in a measure when He ascended, and received the Glory as the Ascended Firstborn of earth; and He sent a foretaste of that Glory of the Father to them, His "body" -and the promise of the Father is to all who are called, until the Church age is ended.

Jesus prayed that "
Jhn 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
Jhn 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Jhn 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
hn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Jhn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.Jhn 17:24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

 

[thelaqachisnext]

1Cr 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
The dead is "Adam", the nature of the one "old man". The body is to rise again, in Christ, the One New Man, the Living Spirit.
The theme of 1 Corinthians 15 is on the resurrection 'of the body', and if there be no resurrection 'of the body' -why are they then baptized 'for the dead -and why are we -the Apostles of the LORD who preach to you- in jeopardy every hour.

 

[Bob Hill]

In Ephesians 3:2, it says that we are in the dispensation of the grace of God: Eph 3:2 if indeed you have heard of the Dispensation of the Grace of God which was given to me [Paul] for you [Us believers in the Dispensation of Grace.]

According to Eph 1:3, we see that God wants to pour out spiritual blessings on us Christians.

For us Christians, we see that these blessings are accomplished by the Father.

Eph 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.”

But, it goes further. God chose us, corporately, in Christ, to be holy.

I like that!!

Bob Hill

 

[Bob Hill]

When we look at 1 Cor 15:29, Paul made the point about the dead problem by using some people who didn’t agree with what he was preaching, by bringing their view of the dead as an argument in favor of his statement: 1 Cor 15:29 Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?

The church was a mystery, a truth not revealed to Old Testament saints. It wasn’t revealed until the ascended God the Son gave it to Paul.

Col. 1:24-27 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, 26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Rom 16:25,26 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, [by Paul] according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith

Eph 3:1-9 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles – 2 if indeed you have heard of the Dispensation of the Grace of God which was given to me for you

It’s amazing!! After thousands of years God gave a new revelation to the Apostle Paul. No one knew anything about it. It was only revealed through Paul to the Body of Christ believers.

3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, [Then, God raised up Paul and gave him this new gospel message,] [Then, the Apostle Paul revealed it to others, and the Holy Spirit revealed the truth to them.] as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the Dispensation of the Mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[patman]

In Ephesians 3:2, it says that we are in the dispensation of the grace of God: Eph 3:2 if indeed you have heard of the Dispensation of the Grace of God which was given to me [Paul] for you [Us believers in the Dispensation of Grace.]

According to Eph 1:3, we see that God wants to pour out spiritual blessings on us Christians.

For us Christians, we see that these blessings are accomplished by the Father.

Eph 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.”

But, it goes further. God chose us, corporately, in Christ, to be holy.

I like that!!

Bob Hill

Good posts Bob. I am glad you are setting them straight.

I liked this one because of how black and white Eph 3:2 is, how it spells out everything MAD proclaims. To bad such a simple verse will not knock out the years of preconceived ideas in some people's heads.

They like it their way, no matter what verse you show them.

But what they think doesn't change how things are. It is really a wonderful dispensation, and thanks for always pointing that out no matter what.

 

[godrulz]

thelaqachisnext,

wrote


Ha ha! Where?

Bob

Mormonism? (isolated I Cor. 15 reference about a pagan practice to illustrate Paul's point about resurrection).

 

[lightninboy]

Hello, everyone,

I see my friend thelaqachisnext is here for the party.

We both oppose MAD.

thelaqachisnext, are you not Arminian, as is Calvary Chapel?

Uh, you say there is more than one book of Enoch?

 

[Bob Hill]

Dispensational Theology is the theology that recognizes that God changes His program in His dealings with man.

A dispensational change is when God changes the “house rules” for man as he relates to God. Sometimes He changes the method of salvation from one dispensation to another.

Other dispensational changes have to do with the state of man. When Adam and Eve sinned, God had to deal with them with the new conscience that they had after they disobeyed God and ate of the forbidden tree.

Before that, they were in innocence.

The biggest change in dispensations was when God changed from dealing with Israel as His people to bringing in the mystery dispensation where He was dealing with all of mankind and man was justified by faith rather than by faith which had to be shown by the works of the law.

God raised up the Apostle Paul and gave him a different gospel and dispensation from Peter and the eleven, who preached the gospel of the circumcision.

Paul was given a dispensation that was a mystery, never revealed before, the Dispensation of Grace.

1 Cor 9:17-18 For if I do this willingly, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have been entrusted with a dispensation. 18 What is my reward then? That when I preach the gospel, I may present the gospel of Christ without charge, that I may not abuse my authority in the gospel.

Bob Hill

 

[godrulz]

There are many dispensational views, including a variety of Mid-Acts views. It is a challenge to ascertain which is most biblical.

 

[lightninboy]

Now Paul's son in the faith, Timothy, was circumcised by Paul -after Timothy was a Believer!!!

But Paul said: "He that is called [by Christ to salvation] uncircumcised, let him not become circumcised, and he that is called circumcised [by Christ to salvation] let him not become uncircumcised.
But Paul circumcised Timothy -for fear of the Jews? -or because Timothy was of a Jewish mother?
Was Timothy considered 'of the circumcision' by Paul, because of having one Jewish parent;, and did Paul's circumcision of Timothy exclude Timothy from the "secret hidden gnostic never before heard of 'different' gospel" which MAD says paul preached?

That's a good argument I didn't think of!

 

[lightninboy]

I liked this one because of how black and white Eph 3:2 is, how it spells out everything MAD proclaims. To bad such a simple verse will not knock out the years of preconceived ideas in some people's heads.
They like it their way, no matter what verse you show them.
But what they think doesn't change how things are. It is really a wonderful dispensation, and thanks for always pointing that out no matter what.

Duh, you think I don't believe in grace?

 

[lightninboy]

The human being body of the second created man [which full human being nature was created for the Word of God to indwell forever], was prepared in the womb of the virgin as the "Body of Christ" and as the second human being created, He is the only brother to Adam, and therefore He is the only legal Kinsman with the right and the will and the power to do the duty of Kinsman, as outlined in Scripture, for earth, which was made as the dominion of Adam, and He is the One who came to do the duty of Kinsman for the dead brother's 'widow'; and as the second created and only living "Isyh of earth [husband], He donned the garments of Kinsman [Isaiah 59], to do the justice for earth that no man could do, to bring forth the sons of God from earth that the Father sought,for His glory to indwell as His humankind house, when He made "Adam, son of God" [Luke 3:38]; male and female [Genesis 5:2]; to multiply the sons of God as the 'living' seed [Malachi 2:15] created 'in' Adam.

The principle of the Kinsman Redeemer is legitimate, though you don't hear much about it.

Google it and see!

 

[patman]

Duh, you think I don't believe in grace?

No, I don't think you understand it.

 

[thelaqachisnext]

Hello, everyone,

I see my friend thelaqachisnext is here for the party.

We both oppose MAD.

thelaqachisnext, are you not Arminian, as is Calvary Chapel?

Uh, you say there is more than one book of Enoch?

I am neither Roman Catholic nor Protestant; Calvinistic nor Armenian, but born again Believer in Jesus Christ, only.

Calvary Chapel has no actual dogmatic stands I don;t think, on these things, being a mix of born again Believers from various backgrounds who 'look' to Chuck Smith and in the main follow after the style of outreach he brought into the Church about 40 or so years ago, when He took a cue from Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones's style of ministering the word [but Jones had the specific anointing that I have not yet seen in a CC pastor -but I have only known a few].
But do not neccessarily all agree with him -and I don't think He has ever tried to make CC a "do as I say, only" organization.

As to the dead body and the submission of that body to water Baptism in obedience to the command of Jesus Christ;

Romans 8:10 shows clearly that the body is dead =a spiritual corpse, because of sin -even though the Spirit of regeneration received from Christ is alive, because of [His]righteousness.

quote myself from another place;
"Paul teaches about those who are water baptized for the old man , in identity with the Living Man =Christ, being folly if the "Dead do not rise", and in this, the true Paul again refutes the false doctrine of MAD.
Note in the Greek that in 1 Corinthians 15 the theme of the chapter is the resurrection of the "body" which is the "dead" 'for' which "they are being baptized", which baptism is the faith in action that the body of death will be resurrected in Christ's New Man bodily image.

remember: the theme of the chapter is the resurrection of the 'dead' body.

As long as we are in this adamic flesh, we are in the dead body; which is dead because of sin.
But water baptism is our obedience to Jesus' command and our statement of agreement with the LORD that our dead body shall rise in His likeness.

In 1 Corinthians 15:29, the subjects are being baptized themselves -bodily -on behalf of their own dead bodies they wear, which they believe will be resurrected in Christ.

15:29 [ Greek Font Size: – / + | Toggle Font ] [ View in: BYZ / TR | Side-by-side | Greek Lexical Parser ]
http://www.studylight.org/images/clear.gif[ Personal Notes: Add ]Else what shall they do (5692) which are baptized (5746) for the dead, if the dead rise (5743) not at all? why are they then baptized (5743) for the dead?
Epei ti poihsousin (5692) oi baptizomenoi (5746) uper twn nekrwn? ei olwv nekroi ouk egeirontai, (5743) ti kai baptizontai (5743) uper autwn?
15:30 [ Greek Font Size: – / + | Toggle Font ] [ View in: BYZ / TR | Side-by-side | Greek Lexical Parser ]
http://www.studylight.org/images/clear.gif[ Personal Notes: Add ]And why stand we in jeopardy (5719) every hour?
ti kai hmeiv kinduneuomen (5719) pasan wran?

Paul explains in Romans 8 that if you are born again in the Spirit of Christ -the Living Spirit of Adoption, or regeneration- that the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit in you is Life because of righteousness.8:10 [ Greek Font Size: – / + | Toggle Font ] [ View in: BYZ / TR | Side-by-side | Greek Lexical Parser ]
http://www.studylight.org/images/clear.gif[ Personal Notes: Add ]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
ei de Xristov en umin, to men swma nekron dia amartian, to de pneuma zwh dia dikaiosunhn.

The dead body a Believer is wearing in this life is submitted to water baptism in loving obedience to Christ and faith in the promises of Christ of the body's resurrection in His image"

 

[thelaqachisnext]

The principle of the Kinsman Redeemer is legitimate, though you don't hear much about it.

Google it and see!

In the 'Fundamentalist' [do only fundamentalists know?] Bible belt of the area of the nation I was born in, it seemed "everyone knew", cause preachers preached the Redeemer/Kinsman who died for us, to ransom us back for the Father, and I can't believe the biblical illiteracy of those who should know better today.

 

[thelaqachisnext]

Mormonism? (isolated I Cor. 15 reference about a pagan practice to illustrate Paul's point about resurrection).

[Et Tu -godrulz?]

No! "Bible"!; the dead body of believers were being submitted to water baptism in obedience to Christ and in faith in the promise of the same body being raised in New Life in the resurrection -that had nada to do with false religion, but with Believers' belief in the resurrection of the body.
the theme of 1 Corinthians 15 is the resurrection of the "dead body"

Look at what I posted; where is Scripture which refutes this?

The heresy of MAD doctrine is that Paul never commanded anyone to disobey the Great commission, which is in effect for the entire age of the One Church.

Paul submitted to water baptism and baptized more than a few persons in water who heard him and obeyed the Gospel; and all who heard Paul were baptized in water -"for the dead".

"The dead" is the dead Adam spirit/nature we are born in, and water baptism identifies us with the death of Christ for our "old man nature"; and identifies us with His burial for our "old man nature" -and we identify with Him as our Scapegoat, by His taking our sins and iniquities to Sheol and leaving them there; and water baptism identifies us with His resurrection in "Perfection" =body, soul and Spirit whole forever, never to die.
We who are identified with His resurrection by the coming up out of the waters of baptism have agreed with His identifying Himself with our "old man" on the cross, and having buried the old man symbolically, we count ourselves dead [cut off] from the old man nature and alive in the New Man nature, in which we are risen with Christ by the adoption as sons, which is the joining of us to His One New Man Living spirit.