The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace

G

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Damian said:
In other words, your future is conditional. That's the bottomline. You can sugarcoat it anyway you want. But it doesn't change your worldview. Conditional security sounds very insecure.

Besides, didn't you already fall by the wayside once?
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I do believe the future is partially open and unsettled (open theism). I have full assurance of my salvation, even though there is a theoretical possibility of falling away.

I was away from God between 13-18 years old. I am not sure what my status would have been before God. I have no inclination to fall away after almost 30 subsequent years of relationship with Him.
 
G

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Damian said:
Do you believe that I'm lost and in danger of eternal damnation?
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Yup. You could confirm this by reminding us of your Christology. Is Jesus Christ the Almighty God, the God-Man, the uncreated Creator in the flesh? Is God triune? Is there only one true God? Is the Bible the Word of God? Did Jesus rise from the dead with a glorified body? Was He born of a virgin, conceived by the Holy Spirit, not by a human father? Is salvation by grace through faith in the person and finished work of Christ?

Mental assent to these things (which would contradict your ACIM) is not sufficient. The devil could spout sound doctrine.
 
Bob Hill

Bob Hill

TOL Subscriber
In the wonderful Dispensation of Grace, God inspired Paul to write that we are in that dispensation in Eph 3:2 if indeed you have heard of the Dispensation of the Grace of God which was given to me for you.

In this dispensation, we see that God wants to pour out spiritual blessings on us Christians.

For Christians, we see that these blessings are accomplished by the Father.
Eph 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.”

But, it goes further. God chose us, corporately, in Christ. Whether this corporation was foreknown as a corporation or as individuals, is debatable.

Those of a Calvinist persuasion would say it was individuals, but I believe there is too much biblical evidence that shows that we have to believe before we are saved.

Bob Hill
 
Bob Hill

Bob Hill

TOL Subscriber
What must we do to be saved?

Acts 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Rom 4:24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead,
Rom 10:9-10 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
1 Ti 1:16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

Secure in Christ,
Bob Hill
 
TheLaughingMan

TheLaughingMan

BANNED
Banned
Bob Hill said:
What must we do to be saved?

Acts 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Rom 4:24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead,
Rom 10:9-10 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
1 Ti 1:16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

Secure in Christ,
Bob Hill
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Or....

Be nothing.

Insecure in the void,
The Laughing Man
 
Damian

Damian

New member
godrulz said:
Yup. You could confirm this by reminding us of your Christology. Is Jesus Christ the Almighty God, the God-Man, the uncreated Creator in the flesh? Is God triune? Is there only one true God? Is the Bible the Word of God? Did Jesus rise from the dead with a glorified body? Was He born of a virgin, conceived by the Holy Spirit, not by a human father? Is salvation by grace through faith in the person and finished work of Christ?

Mental assent to these things (which would contradict your ACIM) is not sufficient. The devil could spout sound doctrine.
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I did not ask you the question. But it appears that you base salvation on simply having right theological doctrine. On Judgment Day, will God test me on my "Christology?"

You make me howl!! :backflip:

Tell me. Did they teach you this in TKD.... :jeffrson: ?

I look at theology as more of a working model. It's fluid and subject to change. My theology is actually the true "Open Theism." I am not under the same constraints as you. My Christology is intact. But I am still working out my "Sophiology."
 
G

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Damian said:
I did not ask you the question. But it appears that you base salvation on simply having right theological doctrine. On Judgment Day, will God test me on my "Christology?"

You make me howl!! :backflip:

Tell me. Did they teach you this in TKD.... :jeffrson: ?

I look at theology as more of a working model. It's fluid and subject to change. My theology is actually the true "Open Theism." I am not under the same constraints as you. My Christology is intact. But I am still working out my "Sophiology."
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The most fundamental issue of Christianity and a right relationship with the Father God is the person and work of Jesus Christ. We must trust and know the real Jesus, not a worthless counterfeit like the kingdom of the cults has. Jesus Christ is Almighty God. He rose from the dead. There is no other name given by which we must be saved. A denial of the Deity or resurrection of Christ is a denial of God's revelation on how we become right with Him for time and eternity. There are absolutes based on God's truth. Relativism is illogical. Diametrically opposed, mutually exclusive views are not equally correct.

The devil can spout sound doctrine, so it is more than mental assent to theological truths. We do need a minimum amount of truth to trust God instead of false counterfeits.
 
Damian

Damian

New member
godrulz said:
The most fundamental issue of Christianity and a right relationship with the Father God is the person and work of Jesus Christ. We must trust and know the real Jesus, not a worthless counterfeit like the kingdom of the cults has. Jesus Christ is Almighty God. He rose from the dead. There is no other name given by which we must be saved. A denial of the Deity or resurrection of Christ is a denial of God's revelation on how we become right with Him for time and eternity. There are absolutes based on God's truth. Relativism is illogical. Diametrically opposed, mutually exclusive views are not equally correct.
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I did not deny the absolute truth. Why are you accusing me of this?

I simply stated that coming to a knowledge of the truth is not based upon a theological exam. I would imagine that most Christians would say that it is a personal relationship. You either have that relationship, or you do not. You either have knowledge of God, or you do not.

Godrulz said:
The devil can spout sound doctrine, so it is more than mental assent to theological truths. We do need a minimum amount of truth to trust God instead of false counterfeits.
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You have been doing a lot of spouting. But do not worry, I am able to discern between sound doctrine and false.
 
lightninboy

lightninboy

Member
Dear Lighthouse,

I checked out your homepage.
I don't watch near as much TV as you do, but we rather agree on a lot of music, though I'm not into all of the new stuff.

Do you have a MAD church that you go to?

Are you going to reply on The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace?
I liked debating with you.
It is good to debate and study the Bible and ask your pastor questions.
Like the Millennium. This debate gives us a reason to find out more about the Millennium.
What denomination of Acts 2 Disp. church were you disillusioned with?
I think some Baptist churches are pretty good, and maybe some aren't so good. But a church saying something doesn't necessarily mean that all the people in it follow that.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Bob Hill said:
What must we do to be saved?

Rom 4:24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead,

Secure in Christ,
Bob Hill
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"But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead" (Ro.4:24).

The "also" is in reference to Abraham,who did not live during the dispensation of grace:

"And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness" (Ro.4:22).

And this same blessing of imputed righteousness also came upon David and on both the circumcized and uncircumcized:

"Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works...[Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also?" (Ro.4:6,9).

So from this we can see that those believers living befoe the law and those believers living under the law and those believers living during this dispensation all received the imputed righteousness of God.

The words "dispensation of grace" do not mean that only those believers living during the "dispensation of grace" are saved by grace and other believers were not saved by grace.

In His grace,--Jerry
 
lightninboy

lightninboy

Member
Hey, hey, hey, Jerry!

Do you have access to the internet only once a month or what?

Like I asked Lighthouse, how is what you really believe really different from Acts 2 Dispensationalism?
 
Bob Hill

Bob Hill

TOL Subscriber
godrulz wrote:
The most fundamental issue of Christianity and a right relationship with the Father God is the person and work of Jesus Christ. We must trust and know the real Jesus, not a worthless counterfeit like the kingdom of the cults has. Jesus Christ is Almighty God. He rose from the dead. There is no other name given by which we must be saved. A denial of the Deity or resurrection of Christ is a denial of God's revelation on how we become right with Him for time and eternity. There are absolutes based on God's truth. Relativism is illogical. Diametrically opposed, mutually exclusive views are not equally correct.

The devil can spout sound doctrine, so it is more than mental assent to theological truths. We do need a minimum amount of truth to trust God instead of false counterfeits.
Click to expand...

And I agree.
Acts 16:30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

Acts 16:31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

It's amazing, but in the Dispensation of Grace, all we have to do is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and will are saved.

Further, we can't lose it!

This is what salvation is all about in our present Dispensation of Grace.

Eph 1:7-14 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

I believed and trusted in Jesus Christ as my Savior in 1951. At that point in time I was sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession.

Safe and Secure in Christ,
Bob Hill
 
Bob Hill

Bob Hill

TOL Subscriber
I would like to see everyone come to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

That should be our marching orders.
Eph 3:9: “and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ”.

It’s easy to see that the Greek word for dispensation is not in Ephesians 3:9. The word that is there is the reading of the Textus Receptus which is based on very few manuscripts.

Eph 3:9: “and to make all see what is the dispensation of the mystery.

Both the Majority Text and the Critical Text show the reading of the second Greek text above. That phrase is translated, “the dispensation of the mystery”.

Here are a number of other translations:
Darby: and to enlighten all with the knowledge of what is the administration of the mystery hidden throughout the ages in God, who has created all things
ASV: and to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery which for ages hath been hid in God who created all things
NASB: and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things
NIV: and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Any of these translations is OK, but I prefer to use the NKJV with a few corrections: and to make all see what is the dispensation of the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created the all things through Jesus Christ.

In Christ,
Bob Hill
 
Bob Hill

Bob Hill

TOL Subscriber
Eph 1:13,14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

How long are we sealed?

Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

The day of redemption for us is now.

What does God want you to do?

Rom 10:8-16 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” 14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, who bring glad tidings of good things!” 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Believe!!
In Christ,
Bob Hill
 
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