Vaquero45 said:There is a story in the Bible about foolish Galatians... somewhere in the back. Might want to check it out. It's a good one!
Faith + works is heretical. Works that flow out of saving faith is biblical (Eph. 2:10; James).
Vaquero45 said:There is a story in the Bible about foolish Galatians... somewhere in the back. Might want to check it out. It's a good one!
godrulz said:Faith + works is heretical. Works that flow out of saving faith is biblical (Eph. 2:10; James).
Vaquero45 said:Eph 2:10 I'm with you on, but James, 2:8-26 (assuming that is what you are refering to) is teaching the law.
godrulz said:James is not teaching the law. He is teaching practical Christian living and works subsequent to saving faith. Mid-Acts preconceptions are not necessary to resolve an apparent contradiction.
No he is not. He is teaching justification by works. James does not claim that if you are saved you will have good works. James claims that by your works you are justified. No works, no justification, no salvation.godrulz said:James is not teaching the law. He is teaching practical Christian living and works subsequent to saving faith.
Are you a mid-acts'er too?Sozo said:No he is not. He is teaching justification by works. James does not claim that if you are saved you will have good works. James claims that by your works you are justified. No works, no justification, no salvation.
I am a child of God. I don't really subscribe to any group. There are things that all of them teach that are true, and there are many things that all of them teach that are in error.kmoney said:Are you a mid-acts'er too?
gotcha...Sozo said:I am a child of God. I don't really subscribe to any group. There are things that all of them teach that are true, and there are many things that all of them teach that are in error.
Sozo said:No he is not. He is teaching justification by works. James does not claim that if you are saved you will have good works. James claims that by your works you are justified. No works, no justification, no salvation.
Vaquero45 said:James 2:8 Howbeit if ye fulfil the royal law, according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
James 2:9 but if ye have respect of persons, ye commit sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors.
James 2:24 You see then that man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.
Romans 3:28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Paul and James clearly disagree. Mid-Acts dispensation makes great sense. Godrulz, I'm not trying to start a big stink. I thought you were coming along well with dispensational teaching talking to Bob Hill? I havent looked at that thread in a long time. (or maybe I dont remember it right?)
godrulz said:Jesus did not teach works. He said the work of God was to believe (also see John 3). James is talking about justification before men who cannot see invisible faith (justified before God). True faith is not mere mental assent like the devil has. True faith will be transforming and lead to a Christ-like life. Read the flow of James' argument, not just a verse or two.
godrulz said:James is talking about justification before men who cannot see invisible faith (justified before God).
Sozo said:godrulz... I nearly have the book memorized (NASB). How would you like me to read it?
Sozo said:Really? What "men" were present when Abraham was offering up Isaac?
Besides you, who would that be?godrulz said:Romans 4; 5 makes it clear that even Abraham was justified by faith without works (contrary to those here who insist much of the NT was based on faith + works).
You keep making that claim, but you never offer proof. :sigh:James is emphasizing the nature of saving faith and practical Christian living.
Sozo said:Besides you, who would that be?
You keep making that claim, but you never offer proof. :sigh:
godrulz said:I think it is straightforward that James is talking about the relationship between faith and deeds (cf. Paul in Eph. 2:8-10), not salvation conditional on faith + works.
Oh brother... :sigh:godrulz said:You lost me...I agree that Abraham was justified by faith, not by works, just as Paul said. You are also saying he was not justified by faith, but by works?
Most commentators or books on alleged bible discrepancies do not have an issue with James vs Paul. Luther thought it was a straw gospel, but he was wrong (and about other things).
This thread is not about James. Its about Jimmy. Where is he?
Sozo said:Oh brother... :sigh:
godrulz... are you sleepwalking?
James is NOT teaching what you claim he is.