The Trinity

[Rosenritter]

If you go a bit further down to verse 30, that's where it says this.

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

And every day we ask for the kingdom to come into our hearts, once we have the holy spirit, then Christ by the spirit through us, does the judging by the word.

What do you believe about the following verses?

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me

By the way, regarding the trinity, you touched upon this (below), it doesn't sound like God is Jesus to me, but rather saying before God... And our lord Jesus Christ

2 Timothy 4:1

before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ

And here's how it's written in other chapters, which go totally against the trinity.

Ephesians 1

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory

1 Peter 1

Blessed*be*the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ

There are more verses that say the same, but I need to go tidy up and haven't got time to look, I shouldn't even be on here now!

There are many passages that use the pattern "God, and Christ" (or similar to that formula) that I describe as being in parallel. I understand that you may see those as being sequential. However, you must at least admit that they could be parallel, using two forms of address for the same thing. We have the example in Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last, and beside me there is no God." (KJV). There cannot be two different LORDS because Deuteronomy 6:4 says "The LORD our God is one LORD." Therefore, there is precedent for referring to God by multiple titles in parallel.

So when you read passages that say "before God, and our Lord Jesus Christ" you must allow that this could very well be naming God in heaven above and also as we knew him on the earth below, the same God, not two different people. How would you prove which way it should be? I would say that is solved by other passages and evidences. Even that Isaiah 44:6 which tells us that the LORD is the "first and the last, beside me there is no God" is invoked by Christ in Revelation four separate times, in reference to himself.

John 10:33 KJV
(33) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

John 20:28-29 KJV
(28) And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
(29) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

When I read Thomas in that passage above, I think that he was speaking in parallel. He knew Jesus was one person, not two, but yet he applied two different titles. Jesus was his "Lord" but lest that be misinterpreted he was even more clear, he acknowledged Jesus as his God.

Revelation 21:6-7 KJV
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Revelation 22:13-16 KJV
(13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(15) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
(16) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.



... almost forgot a passage you asked me about. What do I think about when Jesus foretold the manner of death of Peter? No particular thought, I would need to know what aspect you meant. Peter was taken and killed for his faith, even crucified.

When you read 1 Peter 1:3,
1 Peter 1:3 KJV
(3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Do you read that and think that it is speaking of two different people? I mean, two people plus Christ? A God of Jesus Christ, a separate Father of Jesus Christ, and then Jesus Christ himself? What I mean to point out that you must recognize that the form of address can duplicate itself without requiring multiple people.

If the God of Jesus Christ is the same as the Father of Jesus Christ, that can still be the same person. By extension, the God and Father of our Lord can still be our Lord. When Jesus referred to God in heaven, he called him "Father" in relation to himself on earth, "the Son of God." References to the "Father" are always in heaven, such as "Our Father which art in heaven" (the Lord's prayer). Reference to the Son of God is with regard to the Word walking among us in the flesh "the Son of God, which should come into the world" (John 11:27) and "manifested" (1 John 3:8).




It may seem a little confusing, but I keep it in perspective by remembering that God is big enough to be in more than one place at the same time. There is a parable of an elephant and three blind men. One thinks the elephant must be like a tree, another like a snake, and so forth. They were only grabbing part of the animal and weren't seeing how the whole thing worked together. One elephant, yet it has different forms.

So start with what is known, and what is concrete, and let the rest of the pieces fall into place from there. Just like working with a puzzle.

 

[marhig]

There are many passages that use the pattern "God, and Christ" (or similar to that formula) that I describe as being in parallel. I understand that you may see those as being sequential. However, you must at least admit that they could be parallel, using two forms of address for the same thing. We have the example in Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last, and beside me there is no God." (KJV). There cannot be two different LORDS because Deuteronomy 6:4 says "The LORD our God is one LORD." Therefore, there is precedent for referring to God by multiple titles in parallel.

So when you read passages that say "before God, and our Lord Jesus Christ" you must allow that this could very well be naming God in heaven above and also as we knew him on the earth below, the same God, not two different people. How would you prove which way it should be? I would say that is solved by other passages and evidences. Even that Isaiah 44:6 which tells us that the LORD is the "first and the last, beside me there is no God" is invoked by Christ in Revelation four separate times, in reference to himself.

John 10:33 KJV
(33) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

John 20:28-29 KJV
(28) And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
(29) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

When I read Thomas in that passage above, I think that he was speaking in parallel. He knew Jesus was one person, not two, but yet he applied two different titles. Jesus was his "Lord" but lest that be misinterpreted he was even more clear, he acknowledged Jesus as his God.

Revelation 21:6-7 KJV
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Revelation 22:13-16 KJV
(13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(15) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
(16) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.



... almost forgot a passage you asked me about. What do I think about when Jesus foretold the manner of death of Peter? No particular thought, I would need to know what aspect you meant. Peter was taken and killed for his faith, even crucified.

When you read 1 Peter 1:3,
1 Peter 1:3 KJV
(3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Do you read that and think that it is speaking of two different people? I mean, two people plus Christ? A God of Jesus Christ, a separate Father of Jesus Christ, and then Jesus Christ himself? What I mean to point out that you must recognize that the form of address can duplicate itself without requiring multiple people.

If the God of Jesus Christ is the same as the Father of Jesus Christ, that can still be the same person. By extension, the God and Father of our Lord can still be our Lord. When Jesus referred to God in heaven, he called him "Father" in relation to himself on earth, "the Son of God." References to the "Father" are always in heaven, such as "Our Father which art in heaven" (the Lord's prayer). Reference to the Son of God is with regard to the Word walking among us in the flesh "the Son of God, which should come into the world" (John 11:27) and "manifested" (1 John 3:8).




It may seem a little confusing, but I keep it in perspective by remembering that God is big enough to be in more than one place at the same time. There is a parable of an elephant and three blind men. One thinks the elephant must be like a tree, another like a snake, and so forth. They were only grabbing part of the animal and weren't seeing how the whole thing worked together. One elephant, yet it has different forms.

So start with what is known, and what is concrete, and let the rest of the pieces fall into place from there. Just like working with a puzzle.

I see so clearly through everything I read i the new testament that God is the God of Jesus even Paul talks about Jesus being under subjection to God, and that God was in Jesus reconciling the world unto himself. I just can't see that Jesus is God. Jesus even said plainly that God is his father and his God also. And he calls God the only true God and that he is Jesus Christ whom God has sent. I have to believe what I read, I believe Jesus when he says that God is his God. I just don't see how that can be changed. Jesus even said he came not to do his will, but the will of the father who has given him commandments and he does them, as that God has exhalted Jesus. God wouldn't have given Jesus commandments or exhalted Jesus if he was God already.

To me when the apostles said the God of our lord Jesus Christ, they meant just that, and they were full of the holy spirit, Thomas wasn't, I believe that when Thomas said my lord my God, he saw God in Jesus. I see God in Jesus clearly, I just don't see that he is God. It even says in the Bible that Christ is the head of man and God the head of Christ. You can't get it any more plainer than that, to me anyway. Do you know what he means by the first and the last? First and the last of what? Beginning and the end of what? I'm just wondering what churches believe to this, thanks.

In those verses I quoted, Jesus wasn't talking about Peters natural death, but death to self. Just before it says about signifying by which death Peter should die, Jesus said that when was young he was covered in his own covering, and went where he would, but now that he is old, another shall cover him and guide him. He is talking about not doing our own will and living by the will of God. Being dead to our old nature and being born in God, having our old fleshly nature removed and being covered in the nature is Christ through the spirit.

Jesus was talking about what death Peter should die to glorify God, and the only death that glorifies God, is death to our lusts and our flesh, so that God can live through us and we will glorify him and Christ, as Jesus glorified God through not doing his will, but the will of God.

I have my beliefs, and you have yours. But I see the word of God very differently. Where many see Christ died to save them on a wooden cross, I see that he bore his cross and that he sacrificed his whole life for God. And that his main reason for coming into flesh was to bare witness to the truth and to overcome this world by denying Satan in his flesh, showing us a new and living way to reconcile us to God and God was in him in fullness through the spirit. It even says that the spirit of God was upon Jesus, and Jesus had full strength of Gods spirit, and Jesus denied Satan from ruling his flesh or touching him in anyway, as he was spotless and righteous. And when we follow him, and deny ourselves, we are blessed with the holy spirit who transforms our hearts, if we obey God.

I don't see anywhere in the Bible that my future sins are forgiven. Only my past sins when I repent, I believe that I am to deny myself and and fight my freshly desires once I know the living God and Christ will strengthen me to overcome long as I remain faithful to God. I believe that I'm to stop wilfully sinning, although we all sin, but I truly believe that we are to turn from it and stop doing anything that we know is wrong before God. God can't use dirty vessels, and he can't clean us if we keep sinning and living our own life. We have to turn to God and lay down our lives and become a living sacrifice for God to do his work through being washed thoroughly by the word and furnished by the spirit.

I don't see anything that I do as righteous. I'm just dust, and without God and his precious son, I'd be dead in this flesh. But I'm alive in the spirit thanks to the mercy of God and his holy son Jesus Christ. When it says in the Bible that Jesus became sin for us, he who knew know sin. I believe that to mean that Jesus didn't have to come here, because he hadn't sinned, and he came into this sinful flesh to bring us back to God by not living to please this flesh, but denying it, and completely putting it to death. He was completely dead to flesh and this world and full of the spirit, and I believe that he didn't sin once, thus showing us the way, it says in the Bible that Jesus is the perfect example for us to follow and that we are to walk the walk and if we truly follow him I believe we will do so, so I believe that I am to live it out, not just say I believe, but show I believe by living my life to please God. I don't believe that i can just live my life as I please and that I'm going to heaven regardless. And I believe that this is what the OSAS doctrine seems to teach. I believe that once we've repented, then we are to turn from sin and obey the living God.

Thanks for explaining how you believe, but I have to believe in God how I see right, and I believe that I am to deny myself, and bare my cross to truly follow Jesus. Being a doer of the word and not a hearer only, and that I am to live by the will of God.

I don't think I can say anymore, because I won't go against what I believe is right before God. And we can go on and on. But I can't change to suit anyone else, the only thing I believe I have to do, is to change my life to please God. Thanks.

 

[marhig]

No, He is saying that we are to pick up the benefits of what He there did.

No he isn't, he's saying that we must bare our cross to follow him, and that if we're not willing to do so, then we're not worthy of him!

Also as i said, I believe in the blood of Christ, I just don't see the blood as you do, and I believe that God wouldn't go against his own commandment, so when he said, thou shalt not kill, he meant just that.

I must believe and live in a way that I see is right before God, and to me, that's obeying God turning from sin and denying myself, and putting my complete trust in him and keeping my faith, and following Jesus who i know is the Christ, the holy son of the living God.

 

[marhig]

I think you may misunderstand what the cross was intended to symbolize. It does not represent the cruelty and injustice of the Romans, nor the hypocrisy and betrayal of the Pharisees. What it does represent is that Jesus laid down his life in spite of these things and forgave them, and by his resurrection he showed that death had no power over him. The empty cross is now a symbol of victory over adversity, evil, and death. This is the symbol as used by Paul and Christ. But let's not beat that into the ground any more than we have already. Imagery is a matter of emotion just as much as logic.

I would take your question to the Mormon missionaries a step further. You would not attempt to crucify him but would you attempt to stop the crucifixion from happening? The gospels tell us what happened when someone did try to stop it. In both cases it was Peter.
First time, Matthew 16:21-23 KJV
(21) From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
(22) Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
(23) But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Second time, Matthew 26:50-54 KJV(50) And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.
(51) And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
(52) Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
(53) Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
(54) But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?


If you had told Jesus that you didn't want it to happen, what might have he had said, considering what he said to Peter?

Jesus laid down his life long before he went on the cross, he was about his father's business at the age of 12! And when we lay down our lives, it doesn't mean that we are be crucified!

I have never said that Jesus didn't have to go through what he went through, Jesus had to drink from the cup set before him. God knew beforehand what satan would do to Jesus, and it was prophesied in the old testament. But I don't see that Jesus dying in the cross saves us. Why would God, come into flesh for no other reason than to be a human sacrifice to save us. It makes no sense! We are saved by his life, just as it says in the Bible.

I believe that Jesus had to suffer everything Satan threw at him, including the crucifixion, and he was to deny satan and not sin or obey him in anyway. But when he suffered persecution, he was to show love in return, showing us how to live to please God, showing us that we are to live contrary to our flesh, and by doing this, we are denying our flesh and baring our cross and we are showing the fruits of the spirit instead of the works of the flesh. I believe that Jesus came to bring us the truth, the true God and the true way back him and that his life is the only life to follow.

And what he's showed me, is that whatever I go through in my life, I'm to hold on, and keep my faith in God, and I'm not to listen to Satan and that I'm to deny myself and the temptations of Satan, my flesh has such a strong pull on me, I could easily slip without Christ, but I look at Jesus, and i have a perfect example in him, and I look at what he would do. And he strengthens me, through the gospels and in my heart, and he's helping me to overcome.

If Jesus had of given in once to Satan, then Satan would have overcome him and won. But he couldn't touch Jesus, because he was too strong for him, and Christ will strengthen us too if we obey God.

When Jesus said it is finished and he gave up the ghost, he'd overcome Satan and the world, thus bringing us a new and living way back to God, he said that he'd finished work that God had given him to do, before he went the cross, and that was to bare witness to the truth showing us the true way in God. And it's only through him that we enter in. He's made a way back to God. But to get there, we must walk the walk, and we must be willing to turn from our old life, put off the old man and be covered with the new which is Christ within and without. God wants a willing heart and a willing sacrifice for us to be willing to give our lives for him and by losing our life, we'll save it.

 

[TulipBee]

They knock on my own door to insult my Lord

 

[lifeisgood]

No he isn't, he's saying that we must bare our cross to follow him, and that if we're not willing to do so, then we're not worthy of him!

Also as i said, I believe in the blood of Christ, I just don't see the blood as you do, and I believe that God wouldn't go against his own commandment, so when he said, thou shalt not kill, he meant just that.

I must believe and live in a way that I see is right before God, and to me, that's obeying God turning from sin and denying myself, and putting my complete trust in him and keeping my faith, and following Jesus who i know is the Christ, the holy son of the living God.

JWs don't even believe that Jesus died on the Cross of Calvary how can you say that you believe in the blood.
JWs deny the deity of Christ.
JWs deny that Christ is God made flesh.
JWs deny that He is to be worshipped.

God said, 'When I see the BLOOD I'll pass over you.' God is still saying, 'When I see the BLOOD and ONLY when I see the BLOOD.'
You REJECT the BLOOD; therefore, God will NOT see the BLOOD.

NO BLOOD no salvation!!! Exactly as the ones who did NOT place the BLOOD over the door posts of their houses were lost then, so they are lost today.

You REJECT Jesus Christ and His BLOOD shed on the Cross of Calvary as the ONLY way of salvation.
Therefore, you have REJECTED to place the BLOOD on the door posts of your heart.

But then again, the decision belongs to you for God has provided the ONLY BLOOD He will see and that BLOOD is the BLOOD of His Son shed on the Cross of Calvary.

One's eternal destination is at stake here. You get Jesus Christ wrong, it matters not what else you get right. You, marhig, got Jesus wrong; however, there is still time for you to place the BLOOD on the door posts of your heart so that God can see the BLOOD and the way you do that is by accepting Him and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary.

The decision has been placed on your lap.

 

[lifeisgood]

Jesus laid down his life long before he went on the cross, he was about his father's business at the age of 12! And when we lay down our lives, it doesn't mean that we are be crucified!

Salvation has absolutely nothing to do with you or what you do.
Salvation is all about Him and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary so that God can see the only blood He will accept.

Whatever you do has already been rejected.

 

[God's Truth]

They knock on my own door to insult my Lord

Calvinists' training camp would look like enemy soldiers snake crawling in the dirt to deceive those Christians who have already came to God by belief in the truth, because they can only give that crazy doctrine to those who have already believed. lol

 

[Rosenritter]

Salvation has absolutely nothing to do with you or what you do.
Salvation is all about Him and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary so that God can see the only blood He will accept.

Whatever you do has already been rejected.

Then when Jesus said that "whomever loses his life for my sake shall find it" he didn't know that Salvation has nothing to do with doing anything? Or that bit about he who puts his hand to the plough and looks back is not fit to enter the kingdom of God?

It looks like to me that you are trying to force marhig into saying something he hasn't. Christ's sacrifice covers all sins, but that sacrifice must be 1) accepted and 2) acted on. Christ's forgiveness is given with the admonition, "Go and sin no more." Trees that produce no fruit shall be rooted up and destroyed. Faith without works is dead, and no faith at all.

 

[marhig]

JWs don't even believe that Jesus died on the Cross of Calvary how can you say that you believe in the blood.
JWs deny the deity of Christ.
JWs deny that Christ is God made flesh.
JWs deny that He is to be worshipped.

God said, 'When I see the BLOOD I'll pass over you.' God is still saying, 'When I see the BLOOD and ONLY when I see the BLOOD.'
You REJECT the BLOOD; therefore, God will NOT see the BLOOD.

NO BLOOD no salvation!!! Exactly as the ones who did NOT place the BLOOD over the door posts of their houses were lost then, so they are lost today.

You REJECT Jesus Christ and His BLOOD shed on the Cross of Calvary as the ONLY way of salvation.
Therefore, you have REJECTED to place the BLOOD on the door posts of your heart.

But then again, the decision belongs to you for God has provided the ONLY BLOOD He will see and that BLOOD is the BLOOD of His Son shed on the Cross of Calvary.

One's eternal destination is at stake here. You get Jesus Christ wrong, it matters not what else you get right. You, marhig, got Jesus wrong; however, there is still time for you to place the BLOOD on the door posts of your heart so that God can see the BLOOD and the way you do that is by accepting Him and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary.

The decision has been placed on your lap.

The blood on the doorposts isn't the blood on calvary's cross, it's the life of Christ within, the blood on calvary's cross won't do anything for a person who is baptised and say that they believe in Christ yet their hearts are wicked within, no matter how much they profess know God the natural blood of Jesus won't save them if they're living wrong. It's the life within that stops the destroyer entering in. It's the spiritual blood of Christ covering our hearts, not his natural blood.

And I still find it hard to believe that people honestly think that Jesus has done it all. And they can just live how they like and they're going to heaven. That's not what is taught in the Bible.

And the blood of Christ is on the doorposts of my heart, and I feel the spirit within, working on my heart and I know God and Christ. I don't see it as Christs natural blood, but his blood spiritually. He came by blood, which was him living it out naturally and water which is the word, and it's his life within us spiritually that saves us.

I don't believe in the cross as you do, I see that Jesus bore his cross in his lifetime. And I'll leave my eternal destination in Gods hands. Only he knows my heart and no one else can judge me.

All you talk about is his death, what about his life? There's so much more to Jesus than his death on the cross!

There's no point in carrying on, i understand how you believe. But, I don't believe as you do.

By the way, I'm not a JW, I've never been to any church.

 

[God's Truth]

Just imagine Calvinists explaining their doctrine to people who are not yet saved...

Calvinist to a yet to be saved person: "You are not saved because God does not want to save you and never will".

lol

 

[God's Truth]

Here is what a person preaching the truth says: "If you want to be saved and belong to God, then Jesus tells you how to change your heart so that you can be saved and so that Jesus himself will live there".

 

[God's Truth]

How do we change to be saved?

We do what Jesus says.

What does Jesus say?

Jesus says a lot of things.

Get Jesus' teachings and obey them.

That is how one searches and finds God.

Start by doing the first thing Jesus preached in his earthly ministry...

Repent or perish.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.


Jesus says we have to admit we are sinners and repent of those sins.


We have to change our hearts, just as Jesus says.

We are to change and become as little children who do EXACTLY as they are told.


Matthew 18:3 And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


Did yo read that? You will NEVER ENTER unless you do what?

 

[God's Truth]

Lifeisgood and Marhig, you are a Calvinists, or close to their thinking such as a Lutheran.

You try to speak about the trinity when you do not even believe and understand the milk of the truth.

 

[God's Truth]

Then when Jesus said that "whomever loses his life for my sake shall find it" he didn't know that Salvation has nothing to do with doing anything? Or that bit about he who puts his hand to the plough and looks back is not fit to enter the kingdom of God?

It looks like to me that you are trying to force marhig into saying something he hasn't. Christ's sacrifice covers all sins, but that sacrifice must be 1) accepted and 2) acted on. Christ's forgiveness is given with the admonition, "Go and sin no more." Trees that produce no fruit shall be rooted up and destroyed. Faith without works is dead, and no faith at all.

Marhig does not preach the truth either.

 

[marhig]

How do we change to be saved?

We do what Jesus says.

What does Jesus say?

Jesus says a lot of things.

Get Jesus' teachings and obey them.

That is how one searches and finds God.

Start by doing the first thing Jesus preached in his earthly ministry...

Repent or perish.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.


Jesus says we have to admit we are sinners and repent of those sins.


We have to change our hearts, just as Jesus says.

We are to change and become as little children who do EXACTLY as they are told.


Matthew 18:3 And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


Did yo read that? You will NEVER ENTER unless you do what?

I agree

 

[marhig]

Lifeisgood and Marhig, you are a Calvinists, or close to their thinking such as a Lutheran.

You try to speak about the trinity when you do not even believe and understand the milk of the truth.

I don't even know what a Calvinist or a Lutheran is.

 

[marhig]

Then when Jesus said that "whomever loses his life for my sake shall find it" he didn't know that Salvation has nothing to do with doing anything? Or that bit about he who puts his hand to the plough and looks back is not fit to enter the kingdom of God?

It looks like to me that you are trying to force marhig into saying something he hasn't. Christ's sacrifice covers all sins, but that sacrifice must be 1) accepted and 2) acted on. Christ's forgiveness is given with the admonition, "Go and sin no more." Trees that produce no fruit shall be rooted up and destroyed. Faith without works is dead, and no faith at all.

Although I don't believe in the cross as you do, I agree with your post and regarding go sin no more and faith without works being dead. And I don't see it as my works, but living out the works of God in my heart, and denying myself, turning from sin and obeying God. By the way, I'm a woman

 

[Rosenritter]

I have never said that Jesus didn't have to go through what he went through, Jesus had to drink from the cup set before him. God knew beforehand what satan would do to Jesus, and it was prophesied in the old testament. But I don't see that Jesus dying in the cross saves us. Why would God, come into flesh for no other reason than to be a human sacrifice to save us. It makes no sense! We are saved by his life, just as it says in the Bible.

Because God absorbs the penalty for our sins. That is what it means to forgive. The sins are against God thus his to forgive, not another. God came down to be our sacrifice because that's how he shows that he really cares. He doesn't delegate love for someone else to express.

May I present you with a riddle please? Just this once I will ask you not to look in your Bible. Just read it and post the answer, based on what you read here, then look.

(1) ... The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
(2) For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.
(3) Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
(4) He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
(5) He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.
(6) This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.
(7) Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
(8) Who is this King of glory?

Question. Who is this King of glory?

 

[TulipBee]

Calvinists' training camp would look like enemy soldiers snake crawling in the dirt to deceive those Christians who have already came to God by belief in the truth, because they can only give that crazy doctrine to those who have already believed. lol

We use the Bible