The Trinity

[God's Truth]

You don't know the ascended Lord Jesus Christ, so don't tell me what He said.

You can't hear Him, and it was Paul He spoke to after He had ascended. Since you don't listen to Paul or believe what Paul says then you do not hear what the Ascended Lord said about anything.

So you want to subtract this?


Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the works of their hands. They did not stop worshiping demons and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone, and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk. 21Furthermore, they did not repent of their murder, sorcery, sexual immorality, and theft.


Revelation 16:11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.


Those scriptures are the ASCENDED LORD telling people to repent of SINS.

 

[JudgeRightly]

So when GOD repents HE is having a change of mind or heart?

You should read Jeremiah 18. And Genesis. And Jonah. And, well, the entire Bible.

God changes his mind multiple times in the Bible.

To say such is claim GOD made a mistake

No, it's only claiming that God took a risk, and it didn't pay off.

and is not omniscient.

God is omniscient in that He can know everything He wants to know, and He doesn't have to know something He doesn't want to know, and He can't know what is impossible to know.

That is dangerous to me.

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The idea that God can repent (and yes, the Bible does use the word repent in some verses where it's talking about God) is dangerous to you because your theology is wrong.

It's not a problem for those who believe that the future is open.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Odd that you take this away from all that I have posted. Are you actually digesting what I have written? Or were you just baiting me with this response at the ready?

I again point out that I have never refused a sincerely asked question. When the results are as yours above, I probably have some defect in my ability to root out sincerely asked questions. Shame on me. Nicely, done, sir. Sigh.

AMR

I gravitate towards that word because it will determine if what you say is true to me in reference to the trinity.

You are cautious of me as you well should be, but I am not your enemy and do not wish to prove you wrong. You shouldn't find it odd that I focus on the one word keeping me from agreeing with you wholly.

You should be eager to explain it or admit you cannot. Diverting is not helping anything.

Please do not apologize to me; especially not in any passive agressive way, please; I am little and regard your words as words from a learned man that should be paid attention to. So when I sense in sincerity it makes me see you as less of one I should hear and more of one I should avoid.

Will you please define the word "subsistence" in the manner that you used it in your initial post towards me today? If you cannot them please admit that.

I cannot explain enough how much value honesty holds.

The worth of the opinions of others doesn't even compare.

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[JudgeRightly]

'repent' is a different word than 'stop',

*edit:

Ha, ha, ha, ha! Lame!

The word "stop" isn't even in that verse, and certainly not in the Greek.

 

[drbrumley]

God doesn't condemn people for getting water baptized

True

or for anyone preaching to do it.

As a means for salvation, I agree he may not condemn, but He is definitely saying "my sacrifice wasn't enough?"

 

[JudgeRightly]

God doesn't condemn people for getting water baptized or for anyone preaching to do it.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean it's necessary, which is the argument you are making.

You are claiming that baptism is necessary for salvation. Scripture says otherwise.

We are claiming that it's not necessary for salvation. We are not claiming that baptism is bad, which is your accusation of us.

Scripture says that baptism is not necessary, but does not condemn those who do. That is our position.

 

[steko]

The word "stop" isn't even in that verse, and certainly not in the Greek.

Right, not in the Greek, but is added in some paraphrased Bibles, 'so-called translations'.

 

[drbrumley]

Agreed, but that doesn't mean it's necessary, which is the argument you are making.

You are claiming that baptism is necessary for salvation. Scripture says otherwise.

We are claiming that it's not necessary for salvation. We are not claiming that baptism is bad, which is your accusation of us.

Scripture says that baptism is not necessary, but does not condemn those who do. That is our position.

That sums it up real nice....Great rebuttal.

 

[Bright Raven]

You see that, pops? He also thinks he won that one on one debate we had and he goes from thread to thread telling people that.

He did win. Guess you did not notice your own performance.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

You see that, pops? He also thinks he won that one on one debate we had and he goes from thread to thread telling people that.

Shall we conduct a poll to see what the general opinion would be as to the outcome of this one-on-one?

If you prevail in the poll's results I will gladly leave TOL and never return.
If I prevail in the poll's results will you gladly leave TOL and never return?

Wait for it...wait...wait...

AMR

 

[popsthebuilder]

If links I post are not working, the fault lies with your computing environment. I verify every link I post by using the Preview function before I post a substantive response. I also spend a great deal of time going back and reviewing past posts to correct any broken links if possible (some linked posts have been purged by the TOL admins).

I generally feel no obligation to repeat myself time and again. If I have taken the time and effort to carefully outline and substantively respond, it seems to me I am owed a modicum of courtesy by the one asking a question, or mounting a disagreement, to do the same.

The debate in question represents a thorough explanation of Trinitarianism, including answers to the usual anti-Trinitarianism objections, such as represented by GT...and yourself. I fear explanations explanatory of things explained.

AMR

I don't doubt the problem is on my end.

I was just hoping you would expound on your own opinion about the trinity. here.

I really am not antitrinitarian.

If you take it seriously then why not sum it up in our own words instead of redirecting the thread to one that revolves around you and a separate conversation?

If I wanted cookie cutter responses then I would Google or go to an atheist sight.

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[popsthebuilder]

Don't feel like the lone stranger. I've been taken in by his sincere act, too, and then he jerks the ball away like Lucy every single time. Usually, he stomps on your head before he's done.

You seem to busy yourself with untruths.

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[God's Truth]

Actually the verse says YHVH was pierced.
It doesn't mention 'Father'.

It is the Father speaking in the Old Testament.

You will never ever get around that.


Psalms 22:16 KJV
(16) For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

Zechariah 12:9-10 KJV
(9) And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
(10) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Revelation 1:7-8 KJV
(7) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
(8) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


These scriptures prove that God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son are the same one.


Isaiah 64:8 Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand.

John 1:3 Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.


Malachi 2:10 Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?

Nehemiah 9:6
"You alone are the LORD. You have made the heavens, The heaven of heavens with all their host, The earth and all that is on it, The seas and all that is in them. You give life to all of them And the heavenly host bows down before You.

 

[steko]

You see that, pops? He also thinks he won that one on one debate we had and he goes from thread to thread telling people that.

Shall we conduct a poll to see what the general opinion would be as to the outcome of this one-on-one?

If you prevail in the poll's results I will gladly leave TOL and never return.
If I prevail in the poll's results will you gladly leave TOL and never return?

Wait for it...wait...wait...

AMR

opcorn:

 

[popsthebuilder]

It would be just as dangerous to say that when GOD repented, that He stopped sinning.

I didn't silly.

He stopped. Nothing to do with sinning specifically.

To stop doing a thing isn't to stop sinning by default. But to change your mind about a thing is to have made some mistake along the way around some previous point.

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[God's Truth]

Fatherhood of God in the Old Testament.

Isaiah 64:8 Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand.

Malachi 2:10 Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?

Throughout the Bible we read that God is the Father

Deuteronomy 32:6 Is this the way you repay the LORD, you foolish and unwise people? Is he not your Father, your Creator, who made you and formed you?

Isaiah 63:16 But you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us; you, LORD, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.

God is called the Father of Israel, Isaiah 64:8 ; Jeremiah 3:4 Jeremiah 3:19 ; Malachi 1:6 ; 2:10, and the Father of certain individuals, 2 Samuel, 1 Chronicles 17:13, 22:10, Psalm 89:26.

Sometimes the Father image is present, although the term 'Father' was not used.

Exodus 4:22-23 Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son,
and I told you, "Let my son go, so he may worship me." But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.'"

Jeremiah 31:20 Is not Ephraim my dear son, the child in whom I delight? Though I often speak against him, I still remember him. Therefore my heart yearns for him; I have great compassion for him," declares the LORD.

Hosea 11:1-4 "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.

 

[Bright Raven]

Fatherhood of God in the Old Testament.

Isaiah 64:8 Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand.

Malachi 2:10 Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?

Throughout the Bible we read that God is the Father

Deuteronomy 32:6 Is this the way you repay the LORD, you foolish and unwise people? Is he not your Father, your Creator, who made you and formed you?

Isaiah 63:16 But you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us; you, LORD, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.

God is called the Father of Israel, Isaiah 64:8 ; Jeremiah 3:4 Jeremiah 3:19 ; Malachi 1:6 ; 2:10, and the Father of certain individuals, 2 Samuel, 1 Chronicles 17:13, 22:10, Psalm 89:26.

Sometimes the Father image is present, although the term 'Father' was not used.

Exodus 4:22-23 Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son,
and I told you, "Let my son go, so he may worship me." But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.'"

Jeremiah 31:20 Is not Ephraim my dear son, the child in whom I delight? Though I often speak against him, I still remember him. Therefore my heart yearns for him; I have great compassion for him," declares the LORD.

Hosea 11:1-4 "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.

So, what's your point? :idunno:

 

[God's Truth]

I didn't silly.

He stopped. Nothing to do with sinning specifically.

To stop doing a thing isn't to stop sinning by default. But to change your mind about a thing is to have made some mistake along the way around some previous point.

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They try to use that idiotic charge on me when I say we are to repent of our sins.

God doesn't have to repent of sins, but they keep saying that is why we don't have to.

It is ridiculous.

 

[drbrumley]

I didn't silly.

He stopped. Nothing to do with sinning specifically.

To stop doing a thing isn't to stop sinning by default. But to change your mind about a thing is to have made some mistake along the way around some previous point.

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Um, so when God repented from destroying Ninevah, He changed His mind about a thing meaning He made some mistake along the way around some previous point?

 

[popsthebuilder]

You should read Jeremiah 18. And Genesis. And Jonah. And, well, the entire Bible.

God changes his mind multiple times in the Bible.



No, it's only claiming that God took a risk, and it didn't pay off.



God is omniscient in that He can know everything He wants to know, and He doesn't have to know something He doesn't want to know, and He can't know what is impossible to know.



The idea that God can repent (and yes, the Bible does use the word repent in some verses where it's talking about God) is dangerous to you because your theology is wrong.

It's not a problem for those who believe that the future is open.

You really amaze me sometimes....not in a good way.

How did you get that I didn't know GOD repented in the Bible? I'm the one who brought it up!

Produce the verses that show GOD changing HIS mind.

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