The tribulation starts in 2022 and Jesus returns in 2029

[Interplanner]

Nope, all disciples of the Master are commanded to WATCH for all the signs given in the Olivet Discourse, (Mrk13:37), and that means the signs given obviously are not what you, being a Preterist, think they are or were supposed to be. The words of the Messiah are never going to pass away, (Mrk13:31).

Everything in Mt24, Mk13, Lk19 before it says 'right after this' is about the situation on the ground in the 1st century Judea. Look at the details closely and on what matches Mt 10 and elsewhere in Lk (13, 15, 17, 19, 23) about what was about to take palce. It is Judea-based, and things going on right then, like Sabbath police.

The NT is full of expecting the end of the world right after that (above) destruction of the country, but ALLOWED for an extension, like Peter says in 2 Pet 3, or like the 4 options of the return of the owner allow in Mk 13.

A Preterist believes Christ already came. I am a historian. My graduate thesis was on Luke-Acts and the 'Great War.' He said the city and temple would be destroyed in that generation, like Daniel 9. He said his own coming back might be right after, but allowed for it to be later.

All eschatology fails when it does not put those Mt24A things in 1st century Judea, AND the rest as worldwide and not yet realized. Many, many systems fail on one or the other.

 

[daqq]

Everything in Mt24, Mk13, Lk19 before it says 'right after this' is about the situation on the ground in the 1st century Judea. Look at the details closely and on what matches Mt 10 and elsewhere in Lk (13, 15, 17, 19, 23) about what was about to take palce. It is Judea-based, and things going on right then, like Sabbath police.

The NT is full of expecting the end of the world right after that (above) destruction of the country, but ALLOWED for an extension, like Peter says in 2 Pet 3, or like the 4 options of the return of the owner allow in Mk 13.

A Preterist believes Christ already came. I am a historian. My graduate thesis was on Luke-Acts and the 'Great War.' He said the city and temple would be destroyed in that generation, like Daniel 9. He said his own coming back might be right after, but allowed for it to be later.

All eschatology fails when it does not put those Mt24A things in 1st century Judea, AND the rest as worldwide and not yet realized. Many, many systems fail on one or the other.

How can you not see that your version of the Messiah is just as much a false prophet as the OP's version of Messiah? Anything that you say has never yet been fulfilled makes him a false prophet. Moreover the biggest problem with historicism is revealed in that one simple little statement where the Master says that the heavens and the earth shall pass away but his words shall not pass away. Have we not already had this discussion many times before? Your historicism nullifies those words because just like the OP, even though you are at opposite ends of the spectrum, you view everything as either already having been fulfilled or else yet to be fulfilled sometime in the unknowable future. In essence you look at prophecy as if on a linear timeline where you can look back on history and check things off that you assume to have already been fulfilled. Prophecy has nothing to do with such outward and worldly things, (especially the words of the Messiah), but rather has to do with yourself and your walk with and in Messiah. Those signs which are given in the Olivet Discourse are for all disciples of Messiah, not just those in first century Judea, and I know that Mrk13:37 has been quoted to you manifold times because I still remember quoting those words to you myself. Why do you continue to reject the words of the Messiah and disbelieve them?

Since the destruction of Jerusalem came and went in 70-2 AD, none of this matters.

All of it matters but you are nullifying the words of the Messiah.

The NT is replete with the expectation of everything ending 'right after' that event, but also has the allowance that God might NOT end the world at that point.

You are now just making excuses for your failed version of a messiah.

The only specific thing we will encounter is the 'short time of rebellion' mentioned at the end of the long reign of Christ we are now in, which will harass all believers, and will be destroyed by the presence of Christ.

Now you are admitting that your version of Messiah said some things that have not yet happened; and not only that but the author of the Apocalypse too; and not only that but your fake version of Paul who is also now clearly a false prophet. See the problem here? You have ignored and broken the Torah in your ignorant doctrine which you have concocted for your own private usage to justify what you wish to believe. Bad news for you: the words of the Apocalypse are not going to pass away either, and neither will the words of Paul, because those authors actually knew the Messiah and Testified according to his own Testimony. Their words are also SPIRIT and therefore can only be understood supernally by way of and through the Testimony of the Messiah found in the Gospel accounts and the Apocalypse: and the author of the Apocalypse even tells you that the Spirit of the Prophecy is the Testimony of Yeshua, (Rev19:10 YLT).

Everything else was about the events of that generation, as the 1st page of the Rev says, and the time stamp of Lk 23:28 establishes. Unless you think we become adults in X000 years rather than 20-30 it mentions.

More nullification of the Testimony of Messiah:

Mark 13:28-37 KJV
28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

You are commanded to watch: how therefore do you imagine that you have the right to nullify most everything the Master commanded you to be watching for? By your false doctrines of man you nullify the Testimony of Messiah as applying to yourself, and therefore your version of Messiah is a false messiah: which means that you also preach a false gospel of peace and safety, just as the false prophets of Israel did when they told the people that the king of Babylon would not come and take them away. The very same thing which I already said to the OP, and the scripture which I quoted, also applies to you and your false doctrine:

Deuteronomy 18:13-22 KJV
13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.
15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

YOUR version of Messiah is therefore a false prophet because you say that some of what he foretold has still yet not come to pass even after nearly two thousand years. YOUR version of the Apocalypse is also a lie because you say that some of the things written therein have still not yet come to pass even after nearly two thousand years and even though the author boldly tells you that those things are to shortly and quickly come to pass. So because you can neither see nor walk according to the SPIRIT, (for the Spirit of the prophecy is plainly stated to be the Testimony of Messiah, Rev19:10), you therefore cannot see that those things in the Apocalypse concern things that have been going on since the book was written: each in his or her own appointed times, times appointed of the Father, (Gal4:1-2), for those things concern the walk, that is, halacha, and not your fanciful futurist one-time-only global holocaust and false interpretations according to the eyes and mind of your flesh-man Esau nature who walks according to his belly like the serpent.

<snip>

Here is the real problem, false prophet, your mind has not yet been opened:

Luke 24:44-48 ASV
44 And he said unto them, These are my words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must needs be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and the prophets, and the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their mind, that they might understand the scriptures;
46 and he said unto them, Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer, and rise again from the dead the third day;
47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name unto all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
48 ​Ye are witnesses of these things.

Because you refuse to believe the Testimony of the Messiah.

Forget 70AD because none of it had to do with the Olivet Discourse.

 

[JudgeRightly]

No one knows when Christ will return but the Father (In other words, it's within the Father's purview, not the Son's, to decide when He will return):
[JESUS]“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near—at the doors!Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.“ But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is.It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch.Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning—lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping.And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”[/JESUS] - Mark 13:28-37 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark13:28-37&version=NKJV

Jesus told His disciples that they would go to "to the end of the earth" preaching (John even wrote in Revelation 7:9 that he saw "a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands"), yet by the end of Acts, we discover that they hardly ever left Israel:
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, [JESUS]“which,”[/JESUS] He said, [JESUS]“you have heard from Me;for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”[/JESUS] Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”And He said to them, [JESUS]“It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”[/JESUS] - Acts 1:4-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts1:4-8&version=NKJV

AND

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”And Jesus answered and said to them: [JESUS]“Take heed that no one deceives you.For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.All these are the beginning of sorrows.“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.But he who endures to the end shall be saved.And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.[/JESUS] - Matthew 24:3-14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew24:3-14&version=NKJV

Peter says that we can "hasten the coming of the LORD (meaning neither the day nor the hour is set in stone):

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. - 2 Peter 3:10-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Peter3:10-13&version=NKJV

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise" to return, but He does desire "that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9), and we should "account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation" (2 Peter 3:15). No one but the Father knows just when the last convert from the last tribe will be won, but if we "love his appearing" (2 Timothy 4:8), we can "hasten his coming" by doing all we can to get the gospel to the ends of the earth.

- ICR

It is based on these scriptures that we know that, while it is possible that what you say is true, Watchman, Christ will most likely NOT return on that day, and attempting to say that he will makes you a false prophet.

If you really think that Christ will return when you say He will, I want you to sign a contract with me that I pay you $5 and on that day (that you believe Christ will return, everything that is yours becomes mine, your house, your cars, your pets, your money, everything. You won't need it, because you'll be in heaven right?

Are you willing to do that? Oh, you're not? But I thought you said you were sure of your beliefs that Christ would return on that day and at that hour, are you not? :mock:

 

[daqq]

If you took your own advise, you would communicate using language that is easier to understand. Even though i know what you are saying others don't. The reason I ignore or mock you is because not only does it sound incomprehensible but most of the your spiritualised theories are are simply rubbish and not true.

You sound like a mixture of the three mad prophets in that clip.

No, you do not understand what you claim to understand. If you did then you would know why I did what I did and do what I do in such passages as those. Yamim has multiple meanings including hours, days, and seas, depending of the context of the passage. How difficult can that be to understand? especially after it has been already explained to someone like you numerous times? Yamim are not just "days" as you and your blind translator-interpreters imagine. If the word always meant the same thing then it would not matter and it could always be rendered simply as "days", but that really is the whole point which you still remain incapable of seeing, which fact you are utterly blinded to because you do not believe the Testimony of the Master or the Torah passages which are manifold and have already been posted to you in many other places other than this thread. You are willfully ignorant, a hypocrite, a liar, and a fraud.

 

[daqq]

After many days (yamim rabbim) daqq began to chill out.

You will never succeed in mocking the truth of the Word out of existence.
And you certainly have no excuse for what you do:

Lol, did you simply not read what I wrote or were you not able to comprehend what I wrote? Your link is incorrect because the authors of the translation which you cite have deleted two instances of the word yom. Perhaps you should ask yourself why the translation which you have cited is deleting words from the Torah? Could it be that they are just as blind as you and therefore the blind are leading the blind?

Numbers 7:72 WLC
ביום עשתי עשר יום נשיא לבני אשר פגעיאל בן־עכרן׃
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-72.htm

Numbers 7:78 WLC
ביום שנים עשר יום נשיא לבני נפתלי אחירע בן־עינן׃
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-78.htm
​

Would you say it says "In the eleventh yom-day of the yom-day? No, you and most people would not because of course that makes no sense: so the answer is to simply delete what you do not understand or wish to accept? It does not come through in translation because your favorite translators neither know nor understand the scripture. The NEW TESTAMENT teaches these things in the Gospel accounts and statements of the Master when taken into consideration with what is written in the Torah and Prophets. In other words the Master himself teaches these things, yes, the Word whom you claim to know teaches these things. :chuckle:

Numbers 7:72
ביום עשתי עשר יום נשיא לבני אשר פגעיאל בן־עכרן׃
In the eleventh yom-hour of the yom-day, prince of the sons of Asher, Pagiel son of Ocran:

Numbers 7:78
ביום שנים עשר יום נשיא לבני נפתלי אחירע בן־עינן׃
In the twelfth yom-hour of the yom-day, prince of the sons of Naphtali, Ahira son of Enan:
​

And it is not like you never saw this because it was posted in one of your own threads, and you ignorantly responded with the following, which also then completely ignored or misunderstood the reality:

I see your error, the first yom is 'bə-yō-wm' [3117] which means 'on (or in) the day', the second yom is just yō-wm which just means 'day.'

Nothing about 'hour' which is hóra [5610] in Hebrew.

I use all the translations BTW I just gave that version as it was the first that 'pops' up on Biblehub (you should know that but obviously not).

Listen I really do think you are very mixed up and wish you better mental heath in Jesus' name. Forgive me if I don't respond to you in future. God bless.

Please do render these statements for me, pseudo-prophet, and do so without deleting any words from the text like your favorite translator-interpreters love to do in every English translation-interpretation that may be found:

Numbers 7:72 WLC
ביום עשתי עשר יום נשיא לבני אשר פגעיאל בן־עכרן׃
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-72.htm

Numbers 7:78 WLC
ביום שנים עשר יום נשיא לבני נפתלי אחירע בן־עינן׃
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-78.htm
​

You cannot render those two statements for what they say unless you read one of each yom in each passage as an hour instead of a day, for any other way would sound ridiculous, and yet there it is right there in the text: and that is why every translator DELETES one occurrence of yom from the text and does not render it, with the excuse that it must be some kind of "Hebrew idiom" that cannot be rendered into English, (lol). However, as you see, I can render it exactly according to the more accurate and complete understanding of the word yom, (and the plural form yamim), without deleting anything from the Torah like you and your beloved interpreters love to do:

Numbers 7:72
ביום עשתי עשר יום נשיא לבני אשר פגעיאל בן־עכרן׃
In the eleventh yom-hour of the yom-day, prince of the sons of Asher, Pagiel son of Ocran:

Numbers 7:78
ביום שנים עשר יום נשיא לבני נפתלי אחירע בן־עינן׃
In the twelfth yom-hour of the yom-day, prince of the sons of Naphtali, Ahira son of Enan:
​

And in addition to that, you must also adhere to the overall context in your understanding: I know that sounds like too much work for you to have to do, and no doubt it is beyond your capabilities, but with that being the case do you think it is wise for you to be playing the part of prophet, and predicting the year of the great tribulation, and the very month, day, and year of the return of Messiah? Much less the fact that you think you have the right to mock the Word of Elohim when it is shown to refute your fraudulent claims?

From the context and from the fact that the word yom appears not once but twice in each of Num7:72, and Num7:78, there is no way these are twelve days but are rather surely twelve yom-hours in a single yom-day. That is the only way to correctly undersatand the passage without removing words from the Torah, as every English translator does, at least when it comes to verses seventy-two and seventy-eight, (for they all remove one occurrance of the word yom from each verse because they do not understand how else to render it because they do not understand that a yom can also be an hour). It is for this very reason that the Master has the authority to say what he says in Jhn 11:9-10, for each of the twelve yom-hours in a full yom-day is represented by one of the twelve tribes: and Moses says that the twelve princes of the twelve tribes offered their korban each in his own yom-hour of the yom-day wherein the altar was anointed and dedicated. This all therefore takes place in a single yom-day.

Numbers 7:10-12
10 And the princes offered for dedication of the altar in the yom that it was anointed, even the princes offered their offering before the altar.
11 And the LORD said unto Moses, They shall offer their offering, each prince in his yom, for the dedication of the altar.
12 And he that offered his offering in the first yom [yom ha-rishon] was Nahshon the son of Amminadab, of the tribe of Judah:

Numbers 7:18
18 In the second yom Nethaneel the son of Zuar, prince of Issachar, did offer:

Numbers 7:24
24 In the third yom Eliab the son of Helon, prince of the children of Zebulun, did offer:

Numbers 7:30
30 In the fourth yom Elizur the son of Shedeur, prince of the children of Reuben, did offer:

Numbers 7:36
36 In the fifth yom Shelumiel the son of Zurishaddai, prince of the children of Simeon, did offer:

Numbers 7:42
42 In the sixth yom Eliasaph the son of Deuel, prince of the children of Gad, offered:

Numbers 7:48
48 In the seventh yom Elishama the son of Ammihud, prince of the children of Ephraim, offered:

Numbers 7:54
54 In the eighth yom offered Gamaliel the son of Pedahzur, prince of the children of Manasseh:

Numbers 7:60
60 In the ninth yom Abidan the son of Gideoni, prince of the children of Benjamin, offered:

Numbers 7:66
66 In the tenth yom Ahiezer the son of Ammishaddai, prince of the children of Dan, offered:

Note that in the last two hours of the day the word yom appears twice in the text of each statement; but the translators have deleted one occurrence from each of the two statements because you cannot say "In the eleventh day of the day" or "In the twelfth day of the day", and thus, they claim it is merely "Hebrew idiom" to justify deleting one instance in each of the following two passages:

Numbers 7:72
72 In the eleventh yom of the yom Pagiel the son of Ocran, prince of the children of Asher, offered:
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-72.htm

Numbers 7:78
78 In the twelfth yom of the yom Ahira the son of Enan, prince of the children of Naphtali, offered:
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-78.htm

Numbers 7:84
84 This was the dedication of the altar, in the yom when it was anointed, by the princes of Israel: twelve chargers of silver, twelve silver bowls, twelve spoons of gold:

However if we understand that a yom can also be an hour of light then we can indeed understand Num7:72 and 78 without deleting words from the text or ignoring them and pretending they are not there:

Num 7:72a "In the eleventh yom of the yom" = "In the eleventh yom-hour of the yom-day"
Num 7:78a "In the twelfth yom of the yom" = "In the twelfth yom-hour of the yom-day"

John 11:9-10
9 Yeshua answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he stumbles not, because he sees the light of this world.
10 But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because there is no light in him.

POINT: yamim are not only days but also hours, (and the same word is used for seas), so there are many places where you will quote a passage in your favorite cherry picked English version that contains the word yamim and your translation will be incorrect because neither you nor your favorite translator-interpreter-heroes understand the above. :chuckle:

 

[JudgeRightly]

You can have everything and I don't want anything from you. The fact is you, along with 90+% of the population of the Earth will all die between 2022 and 2029.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

I'm a Christian, and will be "caught up" when Christ comes back.

Satan will return to Earth in 2022 in physical form but will look just like Jesus and will delude the world into thinking that the Muslim religion is true and the Christian history of Jesus is wrong. This will cause the great falling away:

Satan is already roaming the earth, seeking whom he may devour. There's no need for him to "return," because he's already here. You seem to be one of the ones he's decieved.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
No one should deceive you in any way, because it is not until the apostasy shall have come first, and the man of lawlessness shall have been revealed--the son of destruction,

Good verse. Thanks for quoting it. What does that have to do with Christ's second coming being in 2022/2029?

Most 'Christians' will be fooled by this and most secular thinkers will believe he is an extraterrestrial as Satan will have 'alien' technology. But this is all a delusion. The US military have known about the 'alien' agenda to kill most of the human race since the war:

Well, I hate to break it to you, but I don't believe in aliens, unless you mean human beings who are not native to the land they are in...

“The alien agenda is the complete take over of this planet, the killing off of five sixths, to seven eighths of the worlds population by the year 2029. The US military have known about this for forty five years, they’ve told no one.”:

See what happens when you don't get a good grounding in truth? You start seeing aliens and demons everywhere, and you start going crazy...

Once Satan has caused the great apostasy he will descend to Damascus and select the Muslim Mahdi Anti-Christ, just as the Satanic Hadiths state:

Oh, so now you're quoting/referencing the Quran?

Now I see why you're making such absurd claims.

Prophet Mohammad said: "Allah will send down the Messiah son of Mary (Jesus). He (Jesus) will descend in the eastern part of Damascus, near the white minaret (tower), dressed in the two yellow garments, with his hands resting on the arms of two angels."

"At the time Imam Mahdi will have proceeded forward to lead the prayer. The call to prayer would have been said and Imam Mahdi will call Isa (Jesus) to lead the prayer but he Isa (Jesus) will instead tell Imam Mahdi to lead the prayer since the call to prayer has been said for him. Thus Imam Mahdi will lead the prayer and Isa (Jesus) will follow him." (Hadiths: Sahih Muslim, Abu Dawud, Tirmizi, Ibn Majah).

This is Satan's plan and if anyone does not worship the images of the Anti-Christ Mahdi being set up around the world they will either starve to death or be beheaded:

Using the Quran to explain end times prophecy in the Bible is not a very good way to go about it.

If you trust God's word (not Allah's word, who is no god at all), then why do you use texts that have nothing to do with it?

Revelation 13
14 It ordered them to set up an image in honour of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

Revelation 20:4
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Beheading is the Muslim method of execution.

Ok, and? What about the scripture verses I posted earlier? (You're the one who brought up the year 2022/29. I refuted your claim, and you're not even going to address my points?

 

[daqq]

Moreover, pseudo-prophet @WatchmanOnTheWall:

Spoiler

After many days (yamim rabbim) daqq began to chill out.

You will never succeed in mocking the truth of the Word out of existence.
And you certainly have no excuse for what you do:

Lol, did you simply not read what I wrote or were you not able to comprehend what I wrote? Your link is incorrect because the authors of the translation which you cite have deleted two instances of the word yom. Perhaps you should ask yourself why the translation which you have cited is deleting words from the Torah? Could it be that they are just as blind as you and therefore the blind are leading the blind?

Numbers 7:72 WLC
ביום עשתי עשר יום נשיא לבני אשר פגעיאל בן־עכרן׃
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-72.htm

Numbers 7:78 WLC
ביום שנים עשר יום נשיא לבני נפתלי אחירע בן־עינן׃
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-78.htm
​

Would you say it says "In the eleventh yom-day of the yom-day? No, you and most people would not because of course that makes no sense: so the answer is to simply delete what you do not understand or wish to accept? It does not come through in translation because your favorite translators neither know nor understand the scripture. The NEW TESTAMENT teaches these things in the Gospel accounts and statements of the Master when taken into consideration with what is written in the Torah and Prophets. In other words the Master himself teaches these things, yes, the Word whom you claim to know teaches these things. :chuckle:

Numbers 7:72
ביום עשתי עשר יום נשיא לבני אשר פגעיאל בן־עכרן׃
In the eleventh yom-hour of the yom-day, prince of the sons of Asher, Pagiel son of Ocran:

Numbers 7:78
ביום שנים עשר יום נשיא לבני נפתלי אחירע בן־עינן׃
In the twelfth yom-hour of the yom-day, prince of the sons of Naphtali, Ahira son of Enan:
​

And it is not like you never saw this because it was posted in one of your own threads, and you ignorantly responded with the following, which also then completely ignored or misunderstood the reality:

I see your error, the first yom is 'bə-yō-wm' [3117] which means 'on (or in) the day', the second yom is just yō-wm which just means 'day.'

Nothing about 'hour' which is hóra [5610] in Hebrew.

I use all the translations BTW I just gave that version as it was the first that 'pops' up on Biblehub (you should know that but obviously not).

Listen I really do think you are very mixed up and wish you better mental heath in Jesus' name. Forgive me if I don't respond to you in future. God bless.

Please do render these statements for me, pseudo-prophet, and do so without deleting any words from the text like your favorite translator-interpreters love to do in every English translation-interpretation that may be found:

Numbers 7:72 WLC
ביום עשתי עשר יום נשיא לבני אשר פגעיאל בן־עכרן׃
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-72.htm

Numbers 7:78 WLC
ביום שנים עשר יום נשיא לבני נפתלי אחירע בן־עינן׃
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-78.htm
​

You cannot render those two statements for what they say unless you read one of each yom in each passage as an hour instead of a day, for any other way would sound ridiculous, and yet there it is right there in the text: and that is why every translator DELETES one occurrence of yom from the text and does not render it, with the excuse that it must be some kind of "Hebrew idiom" that cannot be rendered into English, (lol). However, as you see, I can render it exactly according to the more accurate and complete understanding of the word yom, (and the plural form yamim), without deleting anything from the Torah like you and your beloved interpreters love to do:

Numbers 7:72
ביום עשתי עשר יום נשיא לבני אשר פגעיאל בן־עכרן׃
In the eleventh yom-hour of the yom-day, prince of the sons of Asher, Pagiel son of Ocran:

Numbers 7:78
ביום שנים עשר יום נשיא לבני נפתלי אחירע בן־עינן׃
In the twelfth yom-hour of the yom-day, prince of the sons of Naphtali, Ahira son of Enan:
​

And in addition to that, you must also adhere to the overall context in your understanding: I know that sounds like too much work for you to have to do, and no doubt it is beyond your capabilities, but with that being the case do you think it is wise for you to be playing the part of prophet, and predicting the year of the great tribulation, and the very month, day, and year of the return of Messiah? Much less the fact that you think you have the right to mock the Word of Elohim when it is shown to refute your fraudulent claims?

From the context and from the fact that the word yom appears not once but twice in each of Num7:72, and Num7:78, there is no way these are twelve days but are rather surely twelve yom-hours in a single yom-day. That is the only way to correctly undersatand the passage without removing words from the Torah, as every English translator does, at least when it comes to verses seventy-two and seventy-eight, (for they all remove one occurrance of the word yom from each verse because they do not understand how else to render it because they do not understand that a yom can also be an hour). It is for this very reason that the Master has the authority to say what he says in Jhn 11:9-10, for each of the twelve yom-hours in a full yom-day is represented by one of the twelve tribes: and Moses says that the twelve princes of the twelve tribes offered their korban each in his own yom-hour of the yom-day wherein the altar was anointed and dedicated. This all therefore takes place in a single yom-day.

Numbers 7:10-12
10 And the princes offered for dedication of the altar in the yom that it was anointed, even the princes offered their offering before the altar.
11 And the LORD said unto Moses, They shall offer their offering, each prince in his yom, for the dedication of the altar.
12 And he that offered his offering in the first yom [yom ha-rishon] was Nahshon the son of Amminadab, of the tribe of Judah:

Numbers 7:18
18 In the second yom Nethaneel the son of Zuar, prince of Issachar, did offer:

Numbers 7:24
24 In the third yom Eliab the son of Helon, prince of the children of Zebulun, did offer:

Numbers 7:30
30 In the fourth yom Elizur the son of Shedeur, prince of the children of Reuben, did offer:

Numbers 7:36
36 In the fifth yom Shelumiel the son of Zurishaddai, prince of the children of Simeon, did offer:

Numbers 7:42
42 In the sixth yom Eliasaph the son of Deuel, prince of the children of Gad, offered:

Numbers 7:48
48 In the seventh yom Elishama the son of Ammihud, prince of the children of Ephraim, offered:

Numbers 7:54
54 In the eighth yom offered Gamaliel the son of Pedahzur, prince of the children of Manasseh:

Numbers 7:60
60 In the ninth yom Abidan the son of Gideoni, prince of the children of Benjamin, offered:

Numbers 7:66
66 In the tenth yom Ahiezer the son of Ammishaddai, prince of the children of Dan, offered:

Note that in the last two hours of the day the word yom appears twice in the text of each statement; but the translators have deleted one occurrence from each of the two statements because you cannot say "In the eleventh day of the day" or "In the twelfth day of the day", and thus, they claim it is merely "Hebrew idiom" to justify deleting one instance in each of the following two passages:

Numbers 7:72
72 In the eleventh yom of the yom Pagiel the son of Ocran, prince of the children of Asher, offered:
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-72.htm

Numbers 7:78
78 In the twelfth yom of the yom Ahira the son of Enan, prince of the children of Naphtali, offered:
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-78.htm

Numbers 7:84
84 This was the dedication of the altar, in the yom when it was anointed, by the princes of Israel: twelve chargers of silver, twelve silver bowls, twelve spoons of gold:

However if we understand that a yom can also be an hour of light then we can indeed understand Num7:72 and 78 without deleting words from the text or ignoring them and pretending they are not there:

Num 7:72a "In the eleventh yom of the yom" = "In the eleventh yom-hour of the yom-day"
Num 7:78a "In the twelfth yom of the yom" = "In the twelfth yom-hour of the yom-day"

John 11:9-10
9 Yeshua answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he stumbles not, because he sees the light of this world.
10 But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because there is no light in him.

POINT: yamim are not only days but also hours, (and the same word is used for seas), so there are many places where you will quote a passage in your favorite cherry picked English version that contains the word yamim and your translation will be incorrect because neither you nor your favorite translator-interpreter-heroes understand the above. :chuckle:

After you render these two verses without deleting any words from the text:

Numbers 7:72​

WLC (Consonants Only)
ביום עשתי עשר יום נשיא לבני אשר פגעיאל בן־עכרן׃
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-72.htm

Numbers 7:78 WLC (Consonants Only)
ביום שנים עשר יום נשיא לבני נפתלי אחירע בן־עינן׃
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-78.htm
​

Please do show us all your expertise, and do the same with the following passage, which no doubt concerns Golgotha and the crucifixion of Messiah which you have been mocking:

Isaiah 30:36 WLC (Consonants Only)
והיה אור־הלבנה כאור החמה ואור החמה יהיה שבעתים כאור שבעת הימים ביום חבש יהוה את־שבר עמו ומחץ מכתו ירפא׃ ס

Oh, wait, that's right, you prefer the help of transliterated interlinears:
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/30-26.htm

I'm pretty sure that says the seven yamim in a yom.
You are so dead you are really really dead . . . :chuckle:

 

[daqq]

As I say, you are very mixed up:

Numbers 7:11
For the LORD had said to Moses, "Each day one leader is to bring his offering for the dedication of the altar."

The word for day used is: lay·yō·wm which means day or daily in every translation and in strongs. You are mixing that up with the word: lay·yā·mîm which can mean day or year.

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/laiyom_3117.htm

Numbers 7:11
HEB: נָשִׂ֨יא אֶחָ֜ד לַיּ֗וֹם נָשִׂ֤יא אֶחָד֙
NAS: each day, for the dedication
KJV: prince on his day, for the dedicating
INT: leader one day leader each

Numbers 7:11
HEB: נָשִׂ֤יא אֶחָד֙ לַיּ֔וֹם יַקְרִ֙יבוּ֙ אֶת־
INT: leader each day present their offering

Numbers 28:3
HEB: תְמִימִ֛ם שְׁנַ֥יִם לַיּ֖וֹם עֹלָ֥ה תָמִֽיד׃
NAS: burnt offering every day.
KJV: without spot day by day, [for] a continual
INT: without two day burnt a continual

Numbers 28:24
HEB: כָּאֵ֜לֶּה תַּעֲשׂ֤וּ לַיּוֹם֙ שִׁבְעַ֣ת יָמִ֔ים
NAS: you shall present daily, for seven
KJV: After this manner ye shall offer daily, throughout the seven
INT: this shall present daily seven days

1 Chronicles 26:17
HEB: שִׁשָּׁה֒ לַצָּפ֤וֹנָה לַיּוֹם֙ אַרְבָּעָ֔ה לַנֶּ֥גְבָּה
NAS: four daily, on the south
KJV: northward four a day, southward four
INT: were six the north daily four the south

1 Chronicles 26:17
HEB: אַרְבָּעָ֔ה לַנֶּ֥גְבָּה לַיּ֖וֹם אַרְבָּעָ֑ה וְלָאֲסֻפִּ֖ים
NAS: four daily, and at the storehouse
KJV: four a day, and toward Asuppim
INT: four the south daily four the storehouse

Esther 3:14
HEB: לִהְי֥וֹת עֲתִדִ֖ים לַיּ֥וֹם הַזֶּֽה׃
NAS: for this day.
KJV: that they should be ready against that day.
INT: become should be ready day this

Esther 8:13
HEB: (עֲתִידִים֙ ק) לַיּ֣וֹם הַזֶּ֔ה לְהִנָּקֵ֖ם
NAS: for this day to avenge
KJV: should be ready against that day to avenge
INT: Jew ready day this to avenge

Jeremiah 37:21
HEB: כִכַּר־ לֶ֤חֶם לַיּוֹם֙ מִח֣וּץ הָאֹפִ֔ים
NAS: of bread daily from the bakers'
KJV: and that they should give him daily a piece
INT: A loaf of bread daily street the bakers'

Ezekiel 4:10
HEB: עֶשְׂרִ֥ים שֶׁ֖קֶל לַיּ֑וֹם מֵעֵ֥ת עַד־
NAS: shekels a day by weight;
KJV: shekels a day: from time
INT: twenty shekels A day time against

Ezekiel 30:2
HEB: הֵילִ֖ילוּ הָ֥הּ לַיּֽוֹם׃
NAS: Wail, 'Alas for the day!'
KJV: Howl ye, Woe worth the day!
INT: Wail Alas the day

Ezekiel 43:25
HEB: שְׂעִיר־ חַטָּ֖את לַיּ֑וֹם וּפַ֧ר בֶּן־
NAS: you shall prepare daily a goat
KJV: shalt thou prepare every day a goat
INT: A goat A sin daily bull A young

Ezekiel 45:23
HEB: אֵילִ֤ים תְּמִימִם֙ לַיּ֔וֹם שִׁבְעַ֖ת הַיָּמִ֑ים
NAS: without blemish on every day
KJV: without blemish daily the seven
INT: rams without every of the seven day

Ezekiel 45:23
HEB: שְׂעִ֥יר עִזִּ֖ים לַיּֽוֹם׃
NAS: day of the seven days, and a male goat
KJV: of the goats daily [for] a sin offering.
INT: male goat days

Ezekiel 46:13
HEB: תַּעֲשֶׂ֥ה עוֹלָ֛ה לַיּ֖וֹם לַֽיהֹוָ֑ה בַּבֹּ֥קֶר
NAS: to the LORD daily; morning
KJV: Thou shalt daily prepare
INT: shall provide A burnt daily to the LORD morning

Joel 1:15
HEB: אֲהָ֖הּ לַיּ֑וֹם כִּ֤י קָרוֹב֙
NAS: Alas for the day! For the day
KJV: Alas for the day! for the day
INT: Alas the day for is near

Malachi 3:17
HEB: יְהוָ֣ה צְבָא֔וֹת לַיּ֕וֹם אֲשֶׁ֥ר אֲנִ֖י
NAS: of hosts, on the day that I prepare
KJV: of hosts, in that day when I make up
INT: the LORD of hosts the day that I

Nope, I am not mixed up: it remains just as I said, but you are not capable of seeing it because again you have ignored the context in Numbers 7, and again, you cannot understand what you read and must therefore rely upon other men to tell you what they think it should say: but those men have not understood the whole and none of them even understand that a yom can be an hour because they are as blind as you are. Posting other passages while ignoring the context in the passage that I have referenced only furthers your own blindness because of your unwillingness to hear what the scripture says. You are just trying to dump a mountain of unrelated references on the problem to hide your error and misunderstanding. The mountain of scripture evidence is actually piling up on you here in this thread, once again, and all you can do is shift, swerve, and side-wind like a serpent, while casting out mocking videos and mocking the scripture that has been posted.

Again, you loose, goodbye for now pseudo-prophet. :loser:

 

[JudgeRightly]

No, the first resurrection is only for the 144,000. Judging by your lack of Biblical understanding you will hopefully be included in the second resurrection of the great multitude at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ. You have only 11 years left to live at most. Try to hold on to what faith in Christ you have. Wait to he appears in the flesh, you will change your mind unless you will be deceived too. 2029. Keep up. They are not aliens as I explained. Do try to keep up.
aliens and demons are one and the same. KEEP UP. Your lack of education lets you down. Didn't know you were trying to make a point..

You would have if instead of just going on a monologue rant you had gone through my post bit by bit. Do try to keep up. In fact, before you do that, you may want to consider purchasing "The Plot" by Pastor Bob Enyart, either on mp3 CD or the book (I prefer the CD version, because he goes through more detail than in the book).

But if you don't, here's a few points:
1. The 144000 are Jews, not Christians.
2. Again, the date of Christ's return is not set in stone, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE.
3. Christians see Christ's return as "comforting," while for the Jews it's troubling. Why? Because the Christians won't experience the Time of Jacob's Trouble (aka the Great Tribulation). That's for Jacob, or rather, Israel.
4. I am secure in my faith in Jesus, He has already saved me, "enduring to the end" was for the Jews and the converts of the 12. Paul tells us we can rest in Christ.
5. Aliens don't exist, and demons are not aliens. Demons are fallen angels
6. You contradicted yourself. Here, I'll show you:

[Demons] are not aliens as I explained.

aliens and demons are one and the same.

So which is it? Are aliens and demons the same? or are they not?

 

[JudgeRightly]

No, the first resurrection is only for the 144,000. Judging by your lack of Biblical understanding you will hopefully be included in the second resurrection of the great multitude at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ. You have only 11 years left to live at most. Try to hold on to what faith in Christ you have. Wait to he appears in the flesh, you will change your mind unless you will be deceived too. 2029. Keep up.They are not aliens as I explained. Do try to keep up.
aliens and demons are one and the same. KEEP UP. Your lack of education lets you down. Didn't know you were trying to make a point..

As for my education, I trust God's word explicitly, and not the Quran, which goes against the Bible. I also don't contradict myself (or at least try not to) when responding to other people's posts.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I see. Yes I agree it will be built soon and as you can see will be up and 'running' by October 2022 but I believe Daniel's 7 year tribulation prophesy, which I believe ends in 2029.

Daniel does not have a 7 year tribulation prophecy.

If you think the tribulation ends when the temple is rebuilt, what happens after this?

Revelation speaks of seals, trumps, and bowls.
The tribulation Jesus spoke of in the Olivet Discourse is during the seals.
The trumps are God showing His power on all the earth in a similar manner to how He showed His power to Egypt before the exodus.
The trumps end with Jesus being given the nations of the earth as His kingdom and His appearing in the clouds.
The bowls are God's wrath on the nations after the appearance of Jesus in the clouds.

Also you said before Jesus returns on the day of Atonement - when do you think this will happen after the temple is built?

Revelation 11 shoes that after the temple is built, the two witnesses will show up and begin prophesying, but there is nothing in the passage that shows how long after the temple is built until the two witnesses show up.
Jesus will return after the two witnesses prophesy for 1260 days and lay dead in the street for 3-1/2 days when He will call to them to "Come up hither" at the time the seventh angel sounds the seventh trump.
This is the same trump that Paul mentions in 1 Thessalonians 4.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Daniel does not have a 7 year tribulation prophecy.

Yes there is:

Daniel 9:27
He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

That is not a prophecy of a 7 year tribulation.

Daniel had been reading in Jeremiah about Jerusalem being desolate for seventy years.

Daniel 9:2 2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.​

The seventy years of desolation was caused by God in response to the children of Israel not turning away from their evil ways.

Jeremiah 25:4-8,11 4 And the Lord hath sent unto you all his servants the prophets, rising early and sending them; but ye have not hearkened, nor inclined your ear to hear. 5 They said, Turn ye again now every one from his evil way, and from the evil of your doings, and dwell in the land that the Lord hath given unto you and to your fathers for ever and ever: 6 And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no hurt. 7 Yet ye have not hearkened unto me, saith the Lord; that ye might provoke me to anger with the works of your hands to your own hurt. 8 Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts; Because ye have not heard my words, 11 And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.​

While Daniel was praying about the sins of the children of Israel that resulted in the desolation of Jerusalem, Gabriel came with a vision to provide Daniel with understanding about what he was reading and was praying about.

Daniel 9:21-23 21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. 22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. 23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.​

The vision began with a big surprise.
Instead of 70 years, the vision spoke of 7 times 70 years (490 years) for the children of Israel and Jerusalem to turn away from their evil ways.

Daniel 9:24 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.​

The vision then speaks of the Jerusalem being rebuilt and the coming of the Messiah.
The "people of the prince that shall come" are the children of Israel alive during the time of "Messiah the Prince."
These people will cause Jerusalem and the Temple to be destroyed with Jerusalem being desolate again, just like written about in Jeremiah and for the exact same reasons.

Daniel 9:25-26 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.​

Since Daniel was reading Jeremiah, he had come across the prophecy of the new covenant that God stated He would make.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.​

The vision given to Daniel speaks of this covenant and states that God will use seven years to confirm the new covenant that was written about in Jeremiah.
In the midst of the seven years, God would cause sacrifice and oblation to cease with the death of Jesus the Messiah on the cross.
But, the vision ends that God will make Jerusalem desolate again, just as written about in Jeremiah, for the overspreading of abominations.

Daniel 9:27 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.​

Nothing in the vision is about a seven year tribulation period.

 

[genuineoriginal]

But you said:
"The temple that will be rebuilt on Temple Mount at the end of the tribulation will be a new one.
The preparations for the next temple are already well under way by the Temple Institute.
The rebuilt temple will signal the end of the current tribulation."

So when do you think the tribulation ends?

To understand when the tribulation ends, we must understand what the tribulation spoken of by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse is about.

The accounts in Mark and Matthew are not very specific and the authors hid the actual words of Jesus with a phrase they hoped the reader would understand.

Mark 13:14-19 14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand, ) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. 17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. Matthew 24:15-21 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: ) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.​

The account in Luke is very specific.
The "abomination that makes desolate" is revealed as Jerusalem being surrounded by armies that will make it just as desolate as it was when the armies of Nebuchadnezzar captured it.
The "great tribulation" is revealed as the children of Israel being led away captive into all nations and Jerusalem being under Gentile occupation until the end of the times of the Gentiles.

Luke 21:20-24 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.​

By this account, we can understand that the "great tribulation" from the Olivet Discourse ends when the children of Israel can return to the land of Israel, when Jerusalem is no longer under Gentile occupation, and when the Temple can be rebuilt to end the desolation of Jerusalem.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You go wrong when you believe the Messiah and the Prince are the one and the same. This is partly due to the translation you are using because in the Original Hebrew it just says Messiah and not Messiah the prince: http://biblehub.com/interlinear/daniel/9-26.htm. The KJ version is a better match:

Daniel 9:26
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Verse 25 states Messiah the Prince.
The references in verse 26 for Messiah and for Prince are both referring to the same Messiah the Prince mentioned in verse 25 and no one else.

You also miss the calculation of:

Daniel 9:25
"Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.

(7x7=49)+(62x7=434)=483 years which was from when Artaxerxes gave the order to rebuild the wall of Jerusalem to the time Jesus began His ministry.

No, I didn't miss that calculation.

Jesus' ministry was not 7 years long

Correct.
Jesus' ministry was the first 3-1/2 years of the confirmation of the covenant.

nor did it take God 7 years to confirm the new covenant.

God did not need 7 years to confirm the covenant, but God used 7 years to confirm the covenant.
Jesus began His ministry at the beginning of the last 7 years of the prophecy of 70 X 7 years.
Jesus was cut off in the middle of that 7 year period after 3-1/2 years of ministry.
The disciples started prophesying on Shavuot (Pentecost) and continued preaching the gospel to the children of Israel for the remaining 3-1/2 years of the prophecy.
Once the 70 X 7 year prophecy was ended, Peter was sent to Cornelius (Acts 10) and the gospel was opened up to the Gentiles.

The 7 years left over (490-483=7 years) will begin in 2022.

No, the entire prophecy took place over 490 continuous years that began in 457 BCE and ended in 34 CE.

Please note:

Daniel 9:27
He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

If you believe this is Jesus or God 'Setting up an abomination that causes desolation' then you are very much mistaken:

God is the one that made Jerusalem desolate in 70 CE in the exact same way He made Jerusalem desolate in 587 BCE.
If you think the desolation of Jerusalem was not God's doing, you are very much mistaken.
The reason God did this is because of the abominations of the children of Israel.

Matthew 24:15
So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’a spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—

The part I highlighted proves that the words of Jesus were replaced with the reference to "the abomination that causes desolation".
Luke is the only Gospel that records the actual words of Jesus:

Luke 21:20 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.​

Jesus is obviously talking about someone other than Himself who is very evil, in fact He is plainly talking about the Anti-Christ.

Since Jesus never actually said the words you are relying on, he was not talking about some very evil Anti-Christ.
He only stated that the desolation of Jerusalem would be preceded by the armies surrounding Jerusalem.
The writers of the Gospel substituted the words Jesus said with the reference to the abomination of desolation.

So you can see just how very wrong you are. You believe the Anti-Christ is Jesus!

No, I can see just how very wrong you are by believing that God's prophecy was not speaking about God making Jerusalem desolate.
Jesus obviously knew that the prophecy was speaking of God making Jerusalem desolate.

Luke 13:34-35 34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! 35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

The abomination that causes desolation can not be Armies surrounding Jerusalem because the abominations are detestable things that are put near the temple by the Anti-Christ

The actual words of Jesus to the disciples were that they would know the desolation of Jerusalem was near when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies.
Do you know why the disciples substituted the words Jesus spoke with the reference to the "abomination that causes desolation" spoken of by Daniel?
No?
Mark and Matthew were written to a Jewish audience and the words of Jesus were hidden in these two gospels to avoid the appearance of sedition against Rome.
The writers of the Gospels of Mark and Matthew provided a reference to the invasion of Jerusalem by Antiochus Epiphanes which was called "the abomination that maketh desolate" in Daniel 11 to hide the words of Jesus which specifically spoke of the armies surrounding Jerusalem, which could only be from the armies of Rome coming to suppress an insurrection.
Luke was written to a Gentile audience and he had to use the words of Jesus because the Gentiles were not expected to know that "the abomination that maketh desolate" was a reference to an event where Jerusalem was invaded by armies.

What Is the ‘Abomination of Desolation’?
If a group of Christians sat down to list perplexing passages, it wouldn't take long for someone to mention Matthew 24:15-16: “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.”
...
As always, the first step is to read the text in literary, cultural, historical, and canonical contexts. Then we analyze the structure of the passage and do the necessary lexical and grammatical work.
...
Scholars generally agree that the first reference of these prophecies is the Seleucid king Antiochus Epiphanes IV, who ruled Palestine from 175-64 B.C. Antiochus treated Israel with such violence and contempt that they rebelled against him. When he came to suppress the rebellion, his forces entered the temple, stopped the regular sacrifices, set up an idol of or altar for Zeus, and apparently offered swine there as a sacrifice. This is an abomination because it is idolatry, and it brings desolation because it defiles the holy place at the heart of Israel. This act was the abomination “of” desolation, the abomination “causing” desolation.
...
Then he says, “When you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation . . . '—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.”
This prophecy makes sense only with reference to the fall of Jerusalem. It cannot possibly apply to Jesus' return. When he comes it will be pointless for an unbeliever to try to flee. And a believer will not want to flee. For the same reason, the following command not to go back to get a cloak and the woe for nursing mothers who must flee cannot refer to Jesus' return. But they make perfect sense if Jesus predicts that another abomination of desolation, like Antiochus Epiphanes of Daniel, is coming. Indeed that abomination did come in Roman form in AD 70. The Roman armies were always an abomination because they carried with them idolatrous images of the emperor, whom they worshiped. And those armies brought desolation because their commander leveled the city and entered the holy of holies, defiling it.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

This theory was first proposed by Eusebius ( http://www.nowoezone.com/NTC16.htm ) and was totally wrong. not sure if you knew this or are a Preterist too but it is all bunk.

I am not a Preterist, but I also do not fall into the extreme error made by futurists in their splitting off the last 7 years of the prophecy into a separate prophecy with no justification whatsoever.

So you think the Babylonians and Romans had nothing to do with it and God destroyed what he said to build???

I believe God who stated He would do it.

Leviticus 26:31 31 And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours.​

Jeremiah 7:34 34 Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride: for the land shall be desolate.​

And just how did you come to that conclusion? Because it is there in the original Greek: http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-15.htm You need to prove this with scripture (which you can't). it is not obviuos in fact it is just wrong.

The words Jesus spoke in the Olivet Discourse were replaced by the writers of Mark and Matthew with "abomination that makes desolate" and the proof is that they added "let the reader understand".
Of course it is in the Greek versions of those Gospels, that proves nothing.
Luke provides the actual words of Jesus instead of the substitution.

No where there does it say God left it desolate, only in your imagination.

There more verses like these, and they are not my imagination.

Jeremiah 9:11 11 And I will make Jerusalem heaps, and a den of dragons; and I will make the cities of Judah desolate, without an inhabitant.​

Jeremiah 25:9-11 9 Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the Lord, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations. 10 Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle. 11 And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

There is justification because scripture supports the tribulation lasting 7 years as Daniel prophesied the sacrifises are stopped half way through by an evil person

The last "week" of the seventy "weeks" prophecy is not "the tribulation".
Nothing in scripture provides the length of the "great tribulation" that Jesus talked about.
The prophecy does not say that the sacrifices will be stopped by an evil person.

And even in your theory if you believe the abomination that causes desolation is the army that surrounds Jerusalem then this also can not be Jesus or His army as it will be Jesus who destroys the army that come against Jerusalem:

According to history, in 66 CE Jerusalem was surrounded by armies led by Cestius Gallus and the Christians that believed the prophecy in the Olivet Discourse fled to Pella and escaped before the city was captured in 70 CE.

The people of the Church in Jerusalem were commanded by an oracle given by revelation before the war to those in the city who were worthy of it to depart and dwell in one of the cities of Perea which they called Pella. To it those who believed on Christ traveled from Jerusalem, so that when holy men had altogether deserted the royal capital of the Jews and the whole land of Judaea…"
— Eusebius, Church History 3, 5, 3

This heresy of the Nazoraeans exists in Beroea in the neighbourhood of Coele Syria and the Decapolis in the region of Pella and in Basanitis in the so-called Kokaba (Chochabe in Hebrew). From there it took its beginning after the exodus from Jerusalem when all the disciples went to live in Pella because Christ had told them to leave Jerusalem and to go away since it would undergo a siege. Because of this advice they lived in Perea after having moved to that place, as I said."
— Epiphanius, Panarion 29,7,7-8​

I agree God allows it by letting evil forces do these things, such as when Nebuchadnezzar or the Romans conquered Jerusalem but you seem to spiritulaise it all and dismiss mans part in this.

God did not "allow" the destruction of Jerusalem and the desolations.
God prophesied that it would happen and then God made it happen.
Do not give man the credit that is due to God alone.

Again you are over spiritualising these verses and ignoring mans part in it. God can't do evil but instead gives fair warning when evil doers are going to do something (especially if it is to fulfil His words).

If God Himself stated that He is the one to bring evil upon Jerusalem, would you believe Him or would you argue that He can't do it?

Jeremiah 4:6 6 Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.​

Jeremiah 6:19 19 Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.​

Jeremiah 11:11 11 Therefore thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them.​

Jeremiah 19:3 3 And say, Hear ye the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

This was only a foreshadow of what is coming, many prophesy's are like this.

The prophecy was fulfilled. It is not a mere foreshadow like you want it to be.

No, God allowed or at most sent the Babylonians and Romans to do it.

God made the desolation of Jerusalem happen twice.
The Chaldeans and Romans were used as tools in God's hands to do what God decreed would happen.

'I will bring' means God brought evil there, He did not DO evil there himself. There is a difference. God can not DO evil. I don't think we will agree here but I have tried.

The God of the Bible is not living up to the standards you demand Him to have.
Are you going to stop following Him because of that?
Or you going to keep ripping out pages from your Bible because it says what you refuse to accept?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Well you will see it 2022 so we'll just have to wait.

Nothing of Biblical significance will happen in 2022.

It is good that you have changed your position from what you originally believed: From your post #65 above:
"God did not "allow" the destruction of Jerusalem and the desolations.
God prophesied that it would happen and then God made it happen.
Do not give man the credit that is due to God alone."

I did not change my position.
God using the Chaldeans and Romans as tools in His hands is the same as God making it happen.

Now you're contradicting yourself from what you have just said because I said: "'I will bring' means God brought evil there, He did not DO evil there himself. There is a difference. God can not DO evil."

God never said He can not DO evil.

I believe what God says about Himself.

Jeremiah 18:8 8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.​

Jeremiah 36:3 3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.​

Jeremiah 42:10 10 If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.​

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

This thread is just for you daqq.

The reason I and others believe the tribulation will start in 2022 and Jesus returns in 2029 is because 2029 will be the start of the 6000th year of the Earth's history and Jesus returns to rule for his 1000 year Millennial reign as explained in this thread:

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?127731-God-s-7000-year-plan&highlight=

And voiced in these earlier threads:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...h-connected-to-Jesus-second-coming&highlight=

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?125145-Jesus-Return&highlight=

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?127115-Did-Jesus-die-on-the-4000th-year&highlight=

The Tribulation starting in 2022 is based on it lasting 7 years as according to the prophet Daniel.

The late Harold Camping and you share a common belief system. You both think you can "theorize" the dates of "The End of Times." You're both wrong. People like you and Camping are basically, guessing. You and he don't have a clue about what's in store for this world.