The Tree!!!!!!

[Nathon Detroit]

Re: "Don't eat under the apple Tree, with anyone else but...GOD!

Re: "Don't eat under the apple Tree, with anyone else but...GOD!

Originally posted by Lion
God didn?t spell out the laws of murder and adultery and so on, from the beginning because He didn?t have to. Don?t disobey, (in other words, don?t eat from the Tree), said it all. Making their choice easy, and obvious.

Or, maybe.... God didn't spell out the other laws because that would have given Adam and Eve the knowledge of good and evil - sort of like force feeding them the fruit they weren't supposed to eat.

In other words....

Had God said (at that point) "do not murder each other", God would have had to explain what murder was.... then they would have known the sin of murder etc. They had no such knowledge hence the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

 

[karstkid]

“The Plot,” schmlot! This Enyart book called “The Plot” is nothing short of a rehash of the maxims and timelines of a theological system known to most in the Christian world as Ultradispensationalism. According to Enyart and all of his devotees on this forum, one cannot understand or interpret the Bible outside of an ultra-dispensational filter. “The Plot” is an adjunct to the Scriptures that purports to elucidate and augment one’s biblical understanding. I read three chapters of “The Plot” and concluded that it was a copious amount of unimpressive hokum. To truly understand the Bible, one must interpret it dispensationally, which is a form of Gnosticism. The Gnostics believed that to truly understand the things of God one had to possess a special or secret knowledge. In Bob Enyart’s world that secret knowledge is “The Plot.” Also, the way these devotees admire everything about Bob is sickening. They are just myrmidons for him. The particular brand of dispensationalism, which Bob and devotees adhere to, is very tiny indeed. Bob Enyart is the greatest thing that has happened to microscopic Ultradispensationalism since Cornelius Stamm and J. C. O’Hair. The reason for Bob’s “success” is that he has a big mouth, boldness, radio programs, TV programs, a website, and now a book. He is Ultradispensationalism’s front man for proselytizing for their very tiny sect. Dispensationalism is only 150 years old and Ultradispensationalism is younger still. The Christian Church for 2000 years did not interpret the Bible dispensationally. Why? Very simple. Because it is not there. Pastors, bishops, priests, ministers, theologians, and bible scholars were not all stupid. It is just is not there. The Apostles, Apostolic Fathers, and other Early Church Fathers did not interpret the Scriptures dispensationally simply because it is not there. I challenge anyone whose knows little or nothing of this to look up Ultradispensationalism at a Christian seminary or college library or on the Internet. Find the con sites and read the testimonies and what they have to say. I challenge the devotees of Bob and “The Plot” to do the same. Open your mind to the Truth.

 

[Sozo]

karstkid... so the "truth" to you would be that there are no dispensations? After Christ's death, everything remained the same as before?

 

[drbrumley]

Next thing you know karstkid will be telling us we are all spiritual jews.

You wanna debate dispensationalism kid, then start a thread and lets have some fun. Otherwise, shut your mouth of that manure that spewed out in that last post.

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by karstkid
“The Plot,” schmlot! This Enyart book called “The Plot” is nothing short of a rehash of the maxims and timelines of a theological system known to most in the Christian world as Ultradispensationalism. According to Enyart....blah, blah, blah!!

I challenge anyone to actually read the entire book of "The Plot" (as most intelligent people would do when they are seeking to find out exactly what it is an author is trying to convey) and see where karstkid has undoubtedly missed the idea completely. I double dog dare ya!! You WILL NOT be sorry!!

:readthis: :read: :think: :bannana:

"The Plot" = :cloud9:

 

[Lion]

Also, the way these devotees admire everything about Bob is sickening. They are just myrmidons for him.

Really? And how do you know this? I go to his church and debate him often on several subjects. At Denver Bible Church the rule of thumb is; Prove it biblically, and everyone is held to that standard. I wonder what standard your church holds to?

 

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by Lion
Really? And how do you know this? I go to his church and debate him often on several subjects. At Denver Bible Church the rule of thumb is; Prove it biblically, and everyone is held to that standard. I wonder what standard your church holds to?

I like that. My pastor does the same thing on Sunday nights and Wednesday nights. I've listened to Bob online. Never heard of him before I came to TOL. I think I would like to sit in on one of his sermons someday.

 

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by Poly
I challenge anyone to actually read the entire book of "The Plot" (as most intelligent people would do when they are seeking to find out exactly what it is an author is trying to convey) and see where karstkid has undoubtedly missed the idea completely. I double dog dare ya!! You WILL NOT be sorry!!

:readthis: :read: :think: :bannana:

"The Plot" = :cloud9:

Hey Poly, wanna loan me your copy?

 

[karstkid]

Sozo:

Quote:
karstkid... so the "truth" to you would be that there are no dispensations? After Christ's death, everything remained the same as before?

I hate the word dispensations. Yes, there was a difference. The Holy Spirit was poured out to all flesh as prophesied in Joel and fulfilled in Acts 2. In the OT only certain people had the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is the pivotal point of all history. There was life before Christ and there was life after Christ.

 

[karstkid]

drbrumley:

Quote:
Next thing you know karstkid will be telling us we are all spiritual jews.
You wanna debate dispensationalism kid, then start a thread and lets have some fun. Otherwise, shut your mouth of that manure that spewed out in that last post.

Spiritual Jews. In a sense yes we are. It say we were grafted in.

Quote:
Otherwise, shut your mouth of that manure that spewed out in that last post.

I thought this was a free open forum. You sound very Soviet. They shut Christians up for not agreeing with them as well. Perhaps it might me good for you to look at 1 Peter 3:15.

"but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;"

 

[karstkid]

Poly:

Quote:
I challenge anyone to actually read the entire book of "The Plot" (as most intelligent people would do when they are seeking to find out exactly what it is an author is trying to convey) and see where karstkid has undoubtedly missed the idea completely. I double dog dare ya!! You WILL NOT be sorry!!

I challenge you to read "Wrongly dividing the word of Truth" by H. A. Ironside and "Ultradispensationalism" by Charles Ryrie and "Essentials of Evangelical Theology" by Donald Bloesch.

 

[karstkid]

Lion:

Quote:
>>Also, the way these devotees admire everything about Bob is sickening. They are just myrmidons for him.<<
Really? And how do you know this? I go to his church and debate him often on several subjects. At Denver Bible Church the rule of thumb is; Prove it biblically, and everyone is held to that standard. I wonder what standard your church holds to?

That's how many of the post portray Bob and his Plot; almost always in glowing terms with unquestioning resolve, especially if one attends Denver or Derby Bible Churches.

BTW, my church holds to biblical, doctrinally orthodox standards.

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by karstkid
That's how many of the post portray Bob and his Plot; almost always in glowing terms with unquestioning resolve, especially if one attends Denver or Derby Bible Churches.

The universal Body of Christ, for the most part, rejects the view (Open Theism) that these groups embrace. Open Theism has been denounced!!

But, I do recognize this is a non-essential doctrine.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by karstkid
I hate the word dispensations.

Me too.

There was life before Christ and there was life after Christ.

Yes there was, but no one possessed that life until after Christ's glorification.

"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.'" But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."

This is *coughs* um... a dispensation :noid:

 

[karstkid]

Freak:

Quote:
The universal Body of Christ, for the most part, rejects the view (Open Theism) that these groups embrace. Open Theism has been denounced!!
But, I do recognize this is a non-essential doctrine.

What is "Open Theism."

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Sozo


This is *coughs* um... a dispensation :noid:

When does a dispensation end and when does one begin? I see, essentially, a Old Covenant & New Covenant.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Freak
I see, essentially, a Old Covenant & New Covenant.

Still, a dispensation. "...the Spirit was not yet given"

 

[drbrumley]

What is a dispensation? The Greek word for dispensation, oijkonomiva – oikonomia, is defined in two ways. The first definition emphasizes the plan of management: “The management of a household or of household affairs; specifically, the management, oversight, administration, of other’s property. The second emphasizes the position entrusted to the administrator: “The office of a manager or overseer, stewardship.” We refer to the term of office of an American president as an administration. We could refer to it as a dispensation. Here is another way to understand the word. Suppose you inherited an estate and hired an overseer, oijkonovmo" – oikonomos, to manage it. You gave him a written document of instructions, the dispensation, and gave him the authority to spend your money to carry out your directions. Although a dispensation is not a period of time, we can see that the directions in the dispensation are carried out over a period of time. If you wanted to, you could replace the old administrator with a new one. You could also change the rules of the dispensation a little, keeping most of the rules from the last dispensation. The employees the prior administrator had hired could adapt to the minor changes easily. But if you hired an administrator and gave him instructions which totally conflicted with the previous dispensation, there would be confusion and probably strong resistance from the employees. That’s what happened in God’s dispensational program after the last change. God set aside His nation, Israel, and started a new dispensation with the Apostle Paul.


This is by Bob Hill. CLICK HERE for more.

In Christ,
Dave

 

[karstkid]

drbrumley:

Quote:
"That’s what happened in God’s dispensational program after the last change. God set aside His nation, Israel, and started a new dispensation with the Apostle Paul."

There are only 2 "dispensations"; Old Covenant (Old Testament) and New Covenant (New Testament). Paul did not start a dispensation nor was he THE first Apostle to the Gentiles. Read the following please.

"-- Acts 9 view. Cornelius R. Stam taught that the church began in Acts 9, with the conversion of Paul. The "Body Church" could only begin with the beginning of Paul's ministry because Paul was the minister to the Gentiles
REBUTTAL: Acts 10, has Peter being the first Apostle going to the Gentiles, then in Acts 11:20 there are others who preached the gospel to the Gentiles before Paul ever started: Also throughout Paul's Ministry we see his pattern of going to the Jew first and then to the Gentile; Acts 9:29; 13:5; 17:1-2, 10, 16-17; 18:1-2, 4, 8, 19; 20:21; 24:5; 26:20, 23; 28:17, 21-23, 30-31. Note that Paul is commissioned to go to the Gentiles Acts 22:21-23, but he didn't limit himself solely to the Gentiles {Acts 17:2}"

Also, I might add that there were all Gentile churches started and thriving long before Paul's conversion. Rome for example may have been the largest Gentile church, yet Paul wrote the Epistle of Romans before he even visited the place.

 

[JackRUS]

Originally posted by karstkid
“The Plot,” schmlot! This Enyart book called “The Plot” is nothing short of a rehash of the maxims and timelines of a theological system known to most in the Christian world as Ultradispensationalism. According to Enyart and all of his devotees on this forum, one cannot understand or interpret the Bible outside of an ultra-dispensational filter. “The Plot” is an adjunct to the Scriptures that purports to elucidate and augment one’s biblical understanding. I read three chapters of “The Plot” and concluded that it was a copious amount of unimpressive hokum. To truly understand the Bible, one must interpret it dispensationally, which is a form of Gnosticism. The Gnostics believed that to truly understand the things of God one had to possess a special or secret knowledge. In Bob Enyart’s world that secret knowledge is “The Plot.” Also, the way these devotees admire everything about Bob is sickening. They are just myrmidons for him. The particular brand of dispensationalism, which Bob and devotees adhere to, is very tiny indeed. Bob Enyart is the greatest thing that has happened to microscopic Ultradispensationalism since Cornelius Stamm and J. C. O’Hair. The reason for Bob’s “success” is that he has a big mouth, boldness, radio programs, TV programs, a website, and now a book. He is Ultradispensationalism’s front man for proselytizing for their very tiny sect. Dispensationalism is only 150 years old and Ultradispensationalism is younger still. The Christian Church for 2000 years did not interpret the Bible dispensationally. Why? Very simple. Because it is not there. Pastors, bishops, priests, ministers, theologians, and bible scholars were not all stupid. It is just is not there. The Apostles, Apostolic Fathers, and other Early Church Fathers did not interpret the Scriptures dispensationally simply because it is not there. I challenge anyone whose knows little or nothing of this to look up Ultradispensationalism at a Christian seminary or college library or on the Internet. Find the con sites and read the testimonies and what they have to say. I challenge the devotees of Bob and “The Plot” to do the same. Open your mind to the Truth.

Karstkid.
Some more questions for you:

http://www.waltermartin.org/dcforum/DCForumID16/236.html

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of
God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from
generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:" Col. 1:25-26