As usual you have misinterpreted the scripture
Romans 9:22, 23, are the "What If" scriptures. Paul is saying, "What If" and not that is what God does. Read it again.
The Terrible God of Calvinism
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
As usual you have misinterpreted the scripture
Romans 9:22, 23, are the "What If" scriptures. Paul is saying, "What If" and not that is what God does. Read it again.
Responsibility is increased by: sight (Jn 9:39–41), privilege (Jn 15:22, 24), opportunity (Mt 11:20–24), continuance in sin (Mt 23:31–35) and rejection (Mt 10:11–15). Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson’s quick reference topical Bible index (p. 529). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.
:dizzy: Men must: "turn" (Ac 9:35), "repent” (Ac 8:22), "return” (1 Sam 7:3). Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson’s quick reference topical Bible index (p. 526). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.
Brother Ducky
New member
OK. Not sure what you are trying to do here.
He is telling you that you must respond to Christ and his Gospel.
NickCharles
New member
You are always looking for scripture that you think demeans God's holy, just nature. You apparently think that you have found something in Romans 9.
NickCharles
New member
I'm looking at scripture for what it says. You have created an idol that cannot be supported in scripture. So when you get to Romans 9, it doesn't fit with the idol. I don't have that issue. I see God as a God who loves His glory first and foremost, and who abhors sin. I see God as a God who, even though He hates sin, because He Wanted to demonstrate His mercy, chose to save some. He didn't need to. He chose to.
So no, I dint look at scripture in the way you describe. I look at it as is.
Unforunately for you, your God does not exist and is NOT the God of the Bible.
The God of the Bible loves the whole world and gives his Son for the sins of the whole world, John 3:16. Many, many scriptures confirm this.
NickCharles
New member
Again, you make no reasonable arguments. You just come back with these petty insults.
But let's look at this:
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
**John *3:36 *KJV
http://bible.com/1/jhn.3.36.kjv
and this
“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
**1 John *2:2 *KJV
http://bible.com/1/1jn.2.2.kjv
I'd love to see you reconcile these two verses if "world" means every single person who ever lived.
Dialogos
Well-known member
huh?
Surely you know that these are only a few of OT allusions Paul is using here, right?glorydaz said:
Paul strings together a number of OT quotations, here they are annotated for you.
(Romans 3:9-18 ESV) (A) What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." (B) "Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive." (C) "The venom of asps is under their lips." (D) "Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness." (E)"Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known." (F)"There is no fear of God before their eyes."
(A) Psalm 14:1-3
(B) Psalm 5:9
(C) Psalm 140:3b
(D) Psalm 10:7
(E) Isaiah 59:7-8a
(F) Psalm 36:1b
Paul clearly isn't commenting on any one or even two verses of OT scripture, he is drawing from a number of scriptures and appropriating them for the point he is making which is, quite clearly, that all are "under sin." And Paul makes the argument, using these OT scriptures, that this is what being "under sin" entails.
One who is "under sin" isn't righteous, doesn't understand, doesn't seek for God, has turned aside from God, has gone wrong, does not do good, speaks deceptively, curses and is embittered, isare prone to violence, does not know peace and has no fear of God in his or her eyes.
Paul is absolutely clear that both Jews and Greeks are under sin and will go on to claim that every mouth will be stopped and the whole world held accountable to God.
:nono:Paul said:
I see so there are foolish lost people and there there are the wise lost people, like yourself, who are just wiser, smarter or more spiritual in the flesh, right?
:nono:
That's not what John 6:63 says.
(John 6:63 ESV) It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
The flesh is no help at all!
Your "wiser" flesh is no help to you, if the Spirit of God hasn't regenerated you then you are just parading around your "wiser" flesh in front of people you think are more foolish than you are.
Right, there are those, like you, who had have wise, lost flesh, right?glorydaz said:
Think about that, does that really sound biblical to you?
:think:
Jesus says that the flesh is no help at all, why do you say that your "wise" flesh made you better than those who were foolish in the flesh?
Exactly!glorydaz said:
Creation renders us without excuse.
It doesn't help us get saved.
That's the whole reason for the gospel.
If gazing with wonder at the moon on a starry night could save anyone, God the Father wouldn't have sent His dearly loved, only Son into the world to bleed on a cross now would He?
Keep reading.glordaz said:
Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God.
20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. (Rom 3:19-20 ESV)
The gentiles can do what is in the law, and their consciences are conflicted, both accusing and excusing them.
The law of the gentile heart is no better than the Law written on stone for the Jews in saving people.
Do you know why?
The answer is in Romans 8:7.
Do you even know what makes one "righteous?"glorydaz said:
The obedience of Christ (Romans 5:19).
That's the only kind of righteousness than matters. Everything we do, in the flesh, that we would boast about are filthy rags before God (Isaiah 64:6).
Your notion that there are some "righteous" lost people and some "foolish" lost people is just silly in light of Isaiah 64:6.
Whose ignoring these men?glorydaz said:
God has always kept a believing remnant, chosen by grace.
Why do you assume that these examples somehow mitigate Paul's statements in Romans 3?
In their flesh, Able, Noah, Lot, Abraham, etc... were just as lost as anyone else. These men don't qualify Paul's statements, they prove Paul's statements.
What reason is given in the text for why God accepted Able's sacrifice and rejected Cain's? Hint the answer is in Hebrews.
Why did Noah and His family get an invitation to build an arc but the rest of the world received no similar warning?
Why didn't God go to the every single person and offer to make them all the father of many nations?
Let me ask you one last question, glorydaz. Did Noah need the power of the Holy Spirit to be called righteous or was he just righteous in the flesh?
Last edited:
Of course "World" means every person.
Salvation has been provided for all. But its not yours if you don't receive it, John 1:12.
Those two scriptures are saying the same thing. If you don't believe you will perish.
NickCharles
New member
If God's wrath was satisfied in 1 John, how can it remain on someone in John 3:36?
beloved57
Well-known member
False comment, the scripture doesnt say that !
Then, your "findings" are faulty. You've been indoctrinated with
Calvinist doctrine and are unable to see the "Forrest for the trees."
NickCharles
New member
Forrest Gump? Nathan Forrest? Which Forrest should we be looking for?
[emoji1]
All who are outside of Christ will perish.
To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your sins, plus nothing.
No Calvinism, No religion, No nothing. Faith in Christ alone.
AMEN!
NickCharles
New member
You, as usual, are not addressing the question. You are just spouting your theology. Please read the question again and try to answer it. If you cannot, please just say so.