The Sun Stood Still

[bob b]

Oh, OK. But does that mean you are not sure if the earth really did stand still for Joshua?

It has been and still is my opinion that the day was lengthened, and the most reasonable candidate for this effect was a passing heavenly body which could have caused a temporary tilt of the Earth's axis, similar to what happens when a toy top is disturbed.

Now I should hasten to add that the account in Joshua was probably exaggerated in the telling, but this does not reflect on the accuracy of scripture, which after all was only accurately relating what people had said about the event.

BTW, in what I have said here I forgot to mention that one of the reasons for my believing that the event actually happened and its cause was the second part of the story in Joshua which mentions that the bulk of the enemy army was destroyed by "hailstones from heaven", which would naturally be the meteorites associated with any passing heavenly body such as a meteor or comet.

 

[Jukia]

It has been and still is my opinion that the day was lengthened, and the most reasonable candidate for this effect was a passing heavenly body which could have caused a temporary tilt of the Earth's axis, similar to what happens when a toy top is disturbed.

Now I should hasten to add that the account in Joshua was probably exaggerated in the telling, but this does not reflect on the accuracy of scripture, which after all was only accurately relating what people had said about the event.

BTW, in what I have said here I forgot to mention that one of the reasons for my believing that the event actually happened and its cause was the second part of the story in Joshua which mentions that the bulk of the enemy army was destroyed by "hailstones from heaven", which would naturally be the meteorites associated with any passing heavenly body such as a meteor or comet.

Naturally!

 

[fool]

ThePhy tries to argue that what I have suggested is impossible, but apparently makes assumptions in his analysis that I have never ascribed to. This is called "the Straw Man" argument.

Calling it a strawman ain't good enough Bob, you need to show why, as in what part of his post was a misrepresntaion of you position.

 

[fool]

As I said, I had no proof that what I had suggested was true, so there was nothing to discuss.

Ah, but now that The Phy demonstated that what you suggested was not keeping in line with physics it would seem as though you would come up with a different theory, or at least stop trying to sell that one Hmm?

 

[bob b]

Ah, but now that The Phy demonstated that what you suggested was not keeping in line with physics it would seem as though you would come up with a different theory, or at least stop trying to sell that one Hmm?

What did he say that convinced you that what I suggested was "not keeping in line with physics?"

 

[fool]

It has been and still is my opinion that the day was lengthened, and the most reasonable candidate for this effect was a passing heavenly body which could have caused a temporary tilt of the Earth's axis, similar to what happens when a toy top is disturbed.

And it has been pointed out numerous times that this is not a viable theory, why must you continue to pervert physics by trying to shoehorn miraculous events into natural explainations?

Now I should hasten to add that the account in Joshua was probably exaggerated in the telling, but this does not reflect on the accuracy of scripture, which after all was only accurately relating what people had said about the event.

How can exaggerating not reflect of the accuracy of something? What else would you concede got exaggerated?

BTW, in what I have said here I forgot to mention that one of the reasons for my believing that the event actually happened and its cause was the second part of the story in Joshua which mentions that the bulk of the enemy army was destroyed by "hailstones from heaven", which would naturally be the meteorites associated with any passing heavenly body such as a meteor or comet.

Hailstones usually come from the sky, are made of ice, and will clobber you for sure.
in the ice case they'd evaporate, and they were familier with brimstone ala sodom and gommorah so if they were stony why wouldn't the charecterize them as brimstones?

 

[fool]

What did he say that convinced you that what I suggested was "not keeping in line with physics?"

The vector part.

 

[bob b]

The vector part.

So when he said "vector" that completely convinced you, right?

 

[fool]

So when he said "vector" that completely convinced you, right?

I already knew that your proposal was faulty, it's nice to have someone around that can put in into the proper lingo.

 

[bob b]

I already knew that your proposal was faulty, it's nice to have someone around that can put in into the proper lingo.

Well I do obviously know about vectors since my early experience in industry was in devising mathematical and computer models for the simulation of missile and ICBM trajectory analysis, but I did not for the life of me understand what in the realm of physical laws would have prevented my suggestion from being realistic. I am glad that you do. Perhaps you can clue me in sometime when you have some spare time.

 

[fool]

Well I do obviously know about vectors since my early experience in industry was in devising mathematical and computer models for the simulation of missile and ICBM trajectory analysis, but I did not for the life of me understand what in the realm of physical laws would have prevented my suggestion from being realistic. I am glad that you do. Perhaps you can clue me in sometime when you have some spare time.

No problem, in your model you are wise enough not to simply stop the rotation, that's a good idea as has been pointed out stopping the rotation on a dime would cause all sorts of problems with the atmosphere, the oceans, anything that's not nailed down and things loosely nailed would all go flying. If you was to gradually, say over a couple of hours, stop the rotation your tea kettle might stay put, but them oceans ain't.
So you seem to think that if you leave the rotation alone and just manipulate the angle of the tilt that you're gonna avoid this problem, but your not, no matter what you try to do, you're gonna have to move something, and back you go to the cup of coffee in the race car, by the time you get there you got coffee all over everything.

 

[SUTG]

Hey everyone,

Just thought I'd share Sylvia Browne's predictions for 2006. The year is far from over, but she is doing pretty good so far. Look at these examples:

10. An impact somewhere in Mexico maybe a meteor.

There was a three car pileup on the corner of Quitara and Juniperro Sera in Mexico City on Jan. 9th, 2006 at 4:32am. Note that Sylvia said "maybe" a meteor.

39. The psychic community online will make peace or more likely start fighting.

Wow! She nailed this one! The online psychic community did start fighting, just like Sylvia said they would!

49. Terrorist attack in Phoenix, Arizona. Possible suitcase nuke.

The Upanishads referred to an area of Northeast Baghdad as "Bhadāra" in sanskrit, which is pronounced "Phoenix" in Olde World English. There was a fistfight in the area on February 2nd.

66. President Bush will be hurt.

According to White House insiders, the President was nursing a hang-nail when the New year rang in.

75. Communications systems will breakdown all over the planet.

An email from my sister was mistakenly put in my Yahoo Bulk Mail folder just last week.

and so on...

 

[bob b]

No problem, in your model you are wise enough not to simply stop the rotation, that's a good idea as has been pointed out stopping the rotation on a dime would cause all sorts of problems with the atmosphere, the oceans, anything that's not nailed down and things loosely nailed would all go flying. If you was to gradually, say over a couple of hours, stop the rotation your tea kettle might stay put, but them oceans ain't.
So you seem to think that if you leave the rotation alone and just manipulate the angle of the tilt that you're gonna avoid this problem, but your not, no matter what you try to do, you're gonna have to move something, and back you go to the cup of coffee in the race car, by the time you get there you got coffee all over everything.

I don't get my coffee all over when I slow down in my car. Why is that?

 

[fool]

I don't get my coffee all over when I slow down in my car. Why is that?

Your not trying hard enough.

 

[bling]

Bob, I think you would have better luck suggesting a meteorite shower brightened the ski like day light. I agree any sudden movement of the earth even over hours would be catastrophic. One large meteorite can be as bright as the sun going through our atmosphere. I do not think Joshua would have cared how God kept it light for a hours?

 

[Stripe]

if a large enough object overtook earth wouldnt the gravitational attraction drag the earth and moon after it? so the earth doesnt tilt or spin slower (which would happen in an impact) it just orbits the sun a bit faster until the gravitational anomaly is gone. the earths orbit speed then presumably slows down to an equilibrium again in an orderly fashion.

id be interested in the results if the scenario could be modelled ...

 

[fool]

I got the best solution yet.
When the battle was going down a couple of fallen angels thought it would be a hoot if they switched off the lights in the middle of it all so they went on up to the sun and hit the emergency shut down button. Yaweh simply opened an access hatch in the dome of the heavens and dangled a temporary lamp thru so the Hebrews could carry on with business. He sent a couple of angels to the sun to flip it back on but they said the switch was stuck and would have to be replaced. He figured he'd wait at the hatch so he could turn off the lamp when the sun was ready again and that's when he remembered he had an appointment for a pedicure. His toe nails was lookin mighty ghetto so he figured he'd just cut them himself. As he was cuttin away some of the trimmings fell in thru hatch and landed on the bad guys. The battle got finished, the toe nails was done, the sun was fixed, and that's the story of the long day.

 

[robycop3]

Bob B:

Have you read Worlds In Collision by Immanuel Velikovsky? It contains some very possible explanations for Joshua's sun/moon stoppage and the retrograde motion of the sun for Hezekiah. It's well-known that civilizations worldwide which didn't know of each other's existence in ancient times all used a calendar of 360 days, as does the Bible, and that at one time Rome had a calendar of 10 months, reflected in the names we use for the last 4 months.

Velikovsky predicted that Mars would be found to have suffered grievously from near-collisions with Earth and Venus, and indeed the Mars landers have shown a surface that looks like an artillery range. he predicted a very hot surface for Venus, even in the regions not facing the sun, and this has proven correct. (Velikovsky made these predictions in 1950.)

Now, while I don't believe his explanations are set in stone, they ARE quite credible and very possible.

BTW, I believe it's quite possible for the judgments of the seals, trumpets, and vials in Revelation to be caused by the approach of another planet, accompanied by some large rocks, some of which will fall to earth as meteors. This way, the people who have received the mark of the beast can blame the happenings to "bad luck" or "poor karma" without mentioning GOD. Remember, Jesus said the seas & waves will roar, which means something besides their normal actions, as many a shore usually has roaring waves. He also said mens' hearts will fail them for fear of the things they see coming upon the earth. Now, we know that a runaway planet approaching earth would be seen by astronomers long before it became visible to the naked eye, perhaps almost a yeat before. And despite what we may see in sci-fi flicks, what could we do about another planet approaching earth? Absolutely NOTHING!

Again, none of this is set in stone, but it's all VERY, VERY POSSIBLE!

 

[bob b]

Bob B:

Have you read Worlds In Collision by Immanuel Velikovsky? It contains some very possible explanations for Joshua's sun/moon stoppage and the retrograde motion of the sun for Hezekiah. It's well-known that civilizations worldwide which didn't know of each other's existence in ancient times all used a calendar of 360 days, as does the Bible, and that at one time Rome had a calendar of 10 months, reflected in the names we use for the last 4 months.

Velikovsky predicted that Mars would be found to have suffered grievously from near-collisions with Earth and Venus, and indeed the Mars landers have shown a surface that looks like an artillery range. he predicted a very hot surface for Venus, even in the regions not facing the sun, and this has proven correct. (Velikovsky made these predictions in 1950.)

Now, while I don't believe his explanations are set in stone, they ARE quite credible and very possible.

BTW, I believe it's quite possible for the judgments of the seals, trumpets, and vials in Revelation to be caused by the approach of another planet, accompanied by some large rocks, some of which will fall to earth as meteors. This way, the people who have received the mark of the beast can blame the happenings to "bad luck" or "poor karma" without mentioning GOD. Remember, Jesus said the seas & waves will roar, which means something besides their normal actions, as many a shore usually has roaring waves. He also said mens' hearts will fail them for fear of the things they see coming upon the earth. Now, we know that a runaway planet approaching earth would be seen by astronomers long before it became visible to the naked eye, perhaps almost a yeat before. And despite what we may see in sci-fi flicks, what could we do about another planet approaching earth? Absolutely NOTHING!

Again, none of this is set in stone, but it's all VERY, VERY POSSIBLE!

Velikovsky researched and found some very interesting material, some of which you have mentioned. It would be amazing if everything that he concluded from this material was correct, considering that he was just one individual working alone, but the source material itself stands unchallenged if not his conclusions about its meaning.

It is also interesting that some of his theories about the chronolgy of the dynasties in Egypt and elsewhere in that general part of the world have only recently gained some favor and are being taken seriously.

And yes, his prediction that Venus would be found to be very hot was in great conflict with astronomical theory of that period.

Nevertheless, I would have to agree with the critics that a Velikovsky-like explanation of Joshua's Long Day is highly speculative. One must await a similar encounter someplace in the Solar System, since such an event would possibly settle it for once and for all. There is nothing like an "experiment" to settle questions reliably in the field of science.

 

[ThePhy]

From bob, responding to fool:

Well I do obviously know about vectors since my early experience in industry was in devising mathematical and computer models for the simulation of missile and ICBM trajectory analysis, but I did not for the life of me understand what in the realm of physical laws would have prevented my suggestion from being realistic. I am glad that you do. Perhaps you can clue me in sometime when you have some spare time.

I have a few minutes. I am still curious why, when my analysis of your scenario was posted a year ago, you didn’t respond to it then as you have here? If you didn’t understand why your idea was wrong, why not say so? Does your response now have anything to do with your recent reintroduction of this same idea?

Anyway, whatever your reason, let me give you a very honest opportunity to show that your understanding of physics in this thread is well founded. You may need to draw lightly on vector analysis, but I will take you at your word that you know about and are experienced in vectors. The vectors necessary for this thread are among the most simple, so we should not find difficulties there.

To start, in your OP, you said this:

Any disturbance of a gyroscope, and that is what the constantly spinning Earth is, would cause a precession of the axis, a wobble if you will.

I don’t agree with your claim. For example, if a force is directed though the center of mass of the spinning earth, would that cause a precession of the earth’s axis?