The Substitutionary and Representative Work of Christ on Our Behalf

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
"the end of the Old Covenant, the law"


Pate: In Acts, the temple, the feasts, such as Pentecost, that were kept............................................were not part of the Old Covenant, the law...


Translation: Pate does not study the bible-clueless.

Paul would say to you..."You observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you , lest I have bestowed labor on you in vain" Galatians 4:10.

If you have to go to the Temple, or you feel that you have to attend a Feast to please God, then you are under the law and will be judged by the law.

Go take a pill and lay down John.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
No, it was not! The Talmud was written between 200 BCE and 200 ACE. Only in the Talmud could this strange idea be recorded. You can read every single page of the Talmud, there is nothing at all about this Christian midrash. I think you better stay with the gospel of Paul aka the NT. The veil of the Temple was never torn but when the Romans set fire to the whole thing itself. Besides, nothing happened to the Temple for the next 40 years since the death of Jesus. It means that the death of Jesus on the cross did nothing to stop the sacrifices.


Sorry Ben, your Jewish religion is obsolete and has been replaced with Christianity.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Sorry Ben, your Jewish religion is obsolete and has been replaced with Christianity.

Jesus established a new sect but not a new religion. The Father has not forsaken Israel, his firstborn son.

The NT is actually a commentary on the Hebrew scriptures which were able to make Timothy wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

You don't understand the testimony of the NT Jews because you don't understand the Hebrew Bible.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Paul would say to you..."You observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you , lest I have bestowed labor on you in vain" Galatians 4:10.

If you have to go to the Temple, or you feel that you have to attend a Feast to please God, then you are under the law and will be judged by the law.

Go take a pill and lay down John.

"Paul would say to you..."You observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you , lest I have bestowed labor on you in vain" Galatians 4:10."-Pate

Deception. Paul says that to saved members of the boc, who were attempting to put themselves/others, under the law, as a "rule of life," deceiver.

Nowhere does Paul assert that the law was abolished at the cross. You made up that satanic dung. If he did, he was on pot, when he said:


Galatians 3 KJV
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Pate: Paul did not say that, and he did not mean, "us."

See below.


So, Pate agrees that Pentecost,the "appointed times," going to the temple, observing the hour of prayer, all observed in Acts, a time "post cross," since devilish Pate asserts that the law was nailed to the cross, as it was abolished then, are thus not part of the law, and that Paul is lost, and Paul lied, when he said that through the law, he, when he was lost, and the lost, learned what sin is, and it lead him, others to Christ, and Pate asserts that the below scriptures, are in error, and/or, no longer apply, and that murder, rape, coveting, .................are not sins, and are fine, as there can be no judgment against them, as there is no law against them:
1 John 3:4 KJV

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Pate: There is no law-it was abolished-it no longer exist-no transgression-everyone is saved.

Romans 4:15 KJV

because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.


Pate: There is no law-it was abolished-it no longer exists. Thus, no law, no law can be broken/transgressed-everyone is saved.



Romans 5:13 KJV

(for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Pate: There is no law-it was abolished-it no longer exists. Thus, if there is no law, it cannot be imputed to anyone-everyone is saved.



Romans 3:20 KJV

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


Pate:There is no law-it was abolished-it no longer exists. Thus, the lost cannot know what sin is. They are always lost.


Romans 7 KJV
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.


Pate:There is no law-it was abolished-it no longer exists. Thus, the lost cannot know what sin is. They are always lost.

Galatians 3 KJV
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Pate:There is no law-it was abolished-it no longer exists.Thus, the law did not bring Paul, the Galatians,.........the lost, to Christ, and does not serve that function today.


On record.

That is satanic.


"If you have to go to the Temple, or you feel that you have to attend a Feast to please God, then you are under the law and will be judged by the law."-Pate

You missed it, fraud. You argued that the law ended/was abolished at the cross-it no longer exists, and thus, did not exist, in early Acts. Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that the Acts 2 believers, John, Peter, were "under the law and will be judged by the law," as they observed it, and Paul was "under the law and will be judged by the law." He also asserts that going to the temple, observing the appointed times, the feasts, observing separation, the hour of prayer, all observed in early Acts, after the cross, after the time when allegedly the law was nailed to the cross, were not part of the OC/law.


He is either a biblical buffoon/illiterate, or satanic-no other option.


"Go take a pill and lay down John."-Pate

Get off this site, you misrepresenter of scripture, one who sends others to hell, with his devilish "doctrine," that he obtains from internet articles, from others, as devilish/lost, as he is, not from the bible, as he repels people from our(not his)faith.
 
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JonahofAkron

New member
The veil in the temple was rent at the cross showing that God would no longer accept animal sacrifice after the one true sacrifice had been offered. The Jews continued offering animal sacrifice until the temple was destroyed in 70AD.
Or, correct me if wrong, Ben, some traditions consider the veil God's only earthly clothing. If that's the case, he rent it in two in mourning, as is Jewish tradition when a loved one dies.



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JonahofAkron

New member
No one Heir! Are you sure that no one has commanded to keep the Law for salvation? How about asking the most important one in your life whom I am sure is Jesus? Am I right? Okay, I am talking about Luke 16:29-31 when Jesus commanded to listen to "Moses" aka the Law." Do you think Jesus was playing a joke on his listeners or serious about listening to "Moses" aka the Law for salvation?
I love that you posted this. I wish you asked yourself the same questions, Cheese.

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JonahofAkron

New member
Wow! Now, all of a sudden, you know that the Law was abolished on the cross. If you don't remember post #79 Epoisses said, "The Law was abolished at the cross' and your reply was, "The Bible does not say that."

Now, to me, you explain that what was abolished on the cross was not the Decalogue but ritual laws. Tell me something; when Paul wrote his letter to the Romans, he said in Romans 7:6 that he had been released from the Law. Do you think he meant ritual or moral Law? If you have "ritual" in mind, wait one more. Later in Romans 10:4, he said that Jesus had been the end of the Law. Which law, the ritual or moral law? Certainly you are thinking about "ritual" but, hold just one more. In Romans 7:1-7 there is an allegory in which Paul compares the Law to a widow who is subject to the law of marriage and becomes free of it when her husband dies. Then Paul compares her dilemma with freedom from the Law at the death of Jesus. Now, tell me, which law was Paul talking about, the Jewish ritual laws or the moral Law of the Decalogue? I am sure you are ready to say "ritual laws" and I tell you, Paul was all the way talking about the Decalogue if you read Romans 7:7. Paul himself mentioned, "Thou shall not covet." Where is the commandment Thou shall not covet if not in the Decalogue? It means that Paul was talking about the Decalogue in Ephesians 2:15; Romans 10:4; Romans 7:6 and 7:1-7.

Do you still think you can debate the Truth with Christian preconceived notions?
Ha. I like it. I will say that I see no disconnect with Paul and Messiah. Both taught the legally acceptable practices for Torah. Paul is mostly talking to Gentiles, whom he considers outside of Torah keeping. Or he's about Torah keeping and is being misinterpreted through that 'preconceived Christian' thought.

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JonahofAkron

New member
The law was abolished on the cross.

While Jesus was dying on the cross God tore the veil that covered the "Holy of Hollies" from the top to the bottom, this signified the end of the Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion, Matthew 27:51.
What's the Holy of hollies? Is that like a really important bush?

Hahaha. Jokes aside, you're still wrong. Show us where the Torah was abolished. Still waiting.

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JonahofAkron

New member
Paul would say to you..."You observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you , lest I have bestowed labor on you in vain" Galatians 4:10.

If you have to go to the Temple, or you feel that you have to attend a Feast to please God, then you are under the law and will be judged by the law.

Go take a pill and lay down John.
Come on, man. Such bad exegesis all over this place. Paul would say that to someone that was engaging again in the practices of their youth: paganism.

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beloved57

Well-known member
All that Jesus was and all that Jesus did was for our justification

To not believe that is to not believe the Gospel.

SUBSTITUTE: To put in the place of another person.

REPRESENTATIVE: To act on the behalf of another as their agent.

Jesus took our place on the cross, "For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21. We are the ones that should be crucified. We are the sinners, not Jesus. He was without sin, but in the Gospel Jesus takes our sins upon himself and becomes sin for us. Here is the grace of God in the Gospel. Jesus willingly atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. If Jesus had not atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world no one would be saved. As far as God is concerned our sins and the sins of the whole world have been abolished.

God has put to death the whole sinful Adamic race in the person of Jesus Christ, Romans 6:6. When Jesus died on the cross all of humanity died with him. "Therefore as by the offence of one (Adam) judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one THE FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life" Romans 5:18. Not just some men, but ALL MEN, have been reconciled to God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Sin, death and the devil have been destroyed. When Jesus came out of Joseph's new tomb our new humanity came out with him. We are now new creations in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17. This great FREE GIFT of salvation is ours by faith alone. It is by faith alone because it is by Christ alone. Jesus is the one that has perfected us, "We are complete in him" Colossians 2:10. No one needs to be predestinated, no one needs to be made holy or join the Catholic church. All one needs to do is accept God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ, Ephesians 2:8.

This promotes salvation by works, by what t person does!
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
No one Heir! Are you sure that no one has commanded to keep the Law for salvation? How about asking the most important one in your life whom I am sure is Jesus? Am I right? Okay, I am talking about Luke 16:29-31 when Jesus commanded to listen to "Moses" aka the Law." Do you think Jesus was playing a joke on his listeners or serious about listening to "Moses" aka the Law for salvation?
We are not commanded in the dispensation of the grace of God to keep the law! Israel time past and future are! Simple stuff!
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Wow! Now, all of a sudden, you know that the Law was abolished on the cross. If you don't remember post #79 Epoisses said, "The Law was abolished at the cross' and your reply was, "The Bible does not say that."

Now, to me, you explain that what was abolished on the cross was not the Decalogue but ritual laws. Tell me something; when Paul wrote his letter to the Romans, he said in Romans 7:6 that he had been released from the Law. Do you think he meant ritual or moral Law? If you have "ritual" in mind, wait one more. Later in Romans 10:4, he said that Jesus had been the end of the Law. Which law, the ritual or moral law? Certainly you are thinking about "ritual" but, hold just one more. In Romans 7:1-7 there is an allegory in which Paul compares the Law to a widow who is subject to the law of marriage and becomes free of it when her husband dies. Then Paul compares her dilemma with freedom from the Law at the death of Jesus. Now, tell me, which law was Paul talking about, the Jewish ritual laws or the moral Law of the Decalogue? I am sure you are ready to say "ritual laws" and I tell you, Paul was all the way talking about the Decalogue if you read Romans 7:7. Paul himself mentioned, "Thou shall not covet." Where is the commandment Thou shall not covet if not in the Decalogue? It means that Paul was talking about the Decalogue in Ephesians 2:15; Romans 10:4; Romans 7:6 and 7:1-7.

Do you still think you can debate the Truth with Christian preconceived notions?
It is the wall of partition that was broken down between those who first trusted Ephesians 1:12 KJV and those who also trusted Ephesians 1:13 KJV not the law of Moses. There is no need to break down the law of Moses for those in the dispensation of the grace of God as we live in the but now where the righteousness of Gdo without the law is manifested (Romans 3:21-22 KJV).



The law was in tact in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and and was being kept as late as Acts 21:20 KJV and will be written on the hearts of those of Israel at the second coming (Ezekiel 36:27 KJV, Jeremiah 31:31-34 KJV).They will then teach it to the nations (Matthew 28:18-20 KJV). To say it has been abolished is foolishness.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
What's the Holy of hollies? Is that like a really important bush?

Hahaha. Jokes aside, you're still wrong. Show us where the Torah was abolished. Still waiting.

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Not only has the Torah been abolished. The whole Jewish system and religion have been abolished. The New Covenant is Jesus Christ himself. All religions are in error. The new and living way is to live by faith, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. Not by rules, laws or religion.

Christ has entered into heaven and has presented his righteousness and his atonement for our sins in our name and on our behalf. We can now stand before God as perfect and complete "In Christ" Hebrews 9:24-28.
 

JonahofAkron

New member
Not only has the Torah been abolished. The whole Jewish system and religion have been abolished. The New Covenant is Jesus Christ himself. All religions are in error. The new and living way is to live by faith, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. Not by rules, laws or religion.

Christ has entered into heaven and has presented his righteousness and his atonement for our sins in our name and on our behalf. We can now stand before God as perfect and complete "In Christ" Hebrews 9:24-28.
Show me where! You keep saying that, but have nothing to prove it.

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