The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

[Right Divider]

Why did he frequently write of water baptism then?

He didn't.

Why did he include his own baptism in Acts 22:16?

He was baptized by a law keeping Jew that knew nothing of the revelation that Paul was yet to receive.

The eunuch was an Ethiopian.

Yes, there were Jews scattered all over the world by that time.

Lydia, Cornelius, and the jailer of Thyatira, were not Israelites either.

So?

I understand the written word.
What you call "figures of speech" are my reality in Christ.

Fun.

As you have not undertaken to be water baptized, how do you identify with Rom 6:7?

I have been baptized into Christ by the Spirit. No water required.

"For he that is dead is freed from sin."
Are you free from sin?

Yes, indeed.
I died in Christ.

 

[Right Divider]

So many things are necessary for salvation that the idea of faith alone is ludicrous.

You disagree with Paul and Christ.

 

[Hoping]

He didn't.

Rom 6 and Col 2 beg to differ.

He was baptized by a law keeping Jew that knew nothing of the revelation that Paul was yet to receive.

A revelation you seem to transfigure into a religion that doesn't require the washing of regeneration.

Yes, there were Jews scattered all over the world by that time.

Are not all believers Jews at heart?

So?

They were not Jews, and they were preached baptism by man's hand.

Fun.

Not always.
But we were told there would be persecutions.

I have been baptized into Christ by the Spirit. No water required.

Me too.
But it was after my water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins...using water.
Just as Peter said in Acts 2:38, and the Samarians, (Acts 8), the twelve at Ephesus, (Acts 19), and the Corinthians, (Acts 18, 1 Cor 1)

Yes, indeed.
I died in Christ.

How long have you been sin free?

 

[Hoping]

You disagree with Paul and Christ.

I think not, and I am walking with the Proof in me.

 

[Derf]

So many things are necessary for salvation that the idea of faith alone is ludicrous.

Sounds like the same kind of thing Peter said were too onerous for the Jews. How will you know if you've achieved them all?

Faith alone is what is required of us, but faith is not alone in us.

 

[glorydaz]

You may have missed the part of my post where I mentioned that the only works Paul wrote against were the works of the Law.
It is written..."Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;" (Rom 9:32)
And..."Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Gal 2:16)
God's loving grace is eminently necessary, however, for without it we would never have been given the gifts of repentance from sin or baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of our past sins.
We would never have been given the scriptures so we can manifest both the death and life of our Redeemer.
If we are not manifesting from whose seed we are (re)born, we would be lost children of the devil.
That would have left us in the flesh, instead of being able to walk after the Spirit.

The anti-works fellas are only "working" against circumcision, dietary laws, feast keeping, and other such parts of the Mosaic Law.
I agree whole heartedly with that.

Do you realize that every single false religion in the world believes man has to do something to earn his salvation?

After the cross, Grace came and salvation is a gift....freely given and must be freely received.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Salvation is a Gift of God. You can't buy it, you can't steal it, you can't trade for it, you can't do one single thing to earn it.....not one single good thing that you have done will count toward your salvation. One very good reason....so that no one could boast.

 

[glorydaz]

What do you consider a "work" for salvation?
This is what Paul considered a "work" for salvation...circumcision, dietary law, feast keeping, tithing, and any other precept of the Mosaic Law.

No, those are not what Paul considered works. Works are anything we do in our body. Even any good works....they do not count for salvation. You just can't DO what only Jesus did on the Cross.

Unfortunately, some have included repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and even enduring faithfully till the end as "works" for salvation.
Do you include obedience to God as a "work' to be shunned?
I don't.

You're confusing works for salvation and works that may come after salvation, and those works can't even be counted as ours, since any fruit we have is the Spirit's.

 

[glorydaz]

You are correct.

Usually when I see a thread concerning "works" it is an attempt by some to establish that rejection of sin is a no-no.
Which just leads to more sin, and sinners will not find their names in the book of life on the last day.

If those who faster the "salvation without works" doctrine would just include the words "of the Law" in their initial discussion, there would be no dilemma.
Don't you agree?

What do you consider a "work" for salvation?

Do you really think this sounds like it's talking about works of the law?
Remember, Paul was the apostle to the gentiles.

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

 

[glorydaz]

So many things are necessary for salvation that the idea of faith alone is ludicrous.

Saved by grace through faith.
There is nothing else required for salvation in this day and age.
It's very important to figure out what dispensation you're in.

If you say Christ is IN YOU, then you contributed nothing to your salvation. You merely believed the Gospel.

If you claim "so many things are necessary for salvation", then you have not yet accepted God's free gift of salvation.

Col. 1:25-27
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

 

[glorydaz]

Rom 6 and Col 2 beg to differ.

A revelation you seem to transfigure into a religion that doesn't require the washing of regeneration.

Are not all believers Jews at heart?

They were not Jews, and they were preached baptism by man's hand.

Not always.
But we were told there would be persecutions.

Me too.
But it was after my water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins...using water.
Just as Peter said in Acts 2:38, and the Samarians, (Acts 8), the twelve at Ephesus, (Acts 19), and the Corinthians, (Acts 18, 1 Cor 1)

How long have you been sin free?

How long are you going to remain under the law?

 

[Arial]

The gift, in my understanding is the grace.
How can faith be a gift if we need it to be saved?
What is the point of believing if the belief is forced on us?

Except that the Bible says it is by grace, and through faith, and that faith is a gift of God. The very Greek word translated faith in that passage indicates something that is given because it comes from outside of us. That does not mean it is forced on us. By logic, if it is forced, it is not real. It is a working of the Holy Spirit (John 3) on a person that opens the eyes of their understanding, removes the hard heart replacing it with a heart of flesh, so that when they hear the gospel, they choose----not to believe, but choose Christ.

 

[Arial]

That's one of the clearest explanations I've heard, but it says we are saved by something other than the cross--you have us saved by this "gift", and therefore the cross is unnecessary.

The faith given is faith (belief, and clinging to) something specific. All of which Paul has already given before this particular passage. In brief---that would be the cross---the life death and resurrection and ascension of Jesus to redeem those who depend on Him for salvation.

 

[Right Divider]

Rom 6 and Col 2 beg to differ.

There is no water in Rom 6 or Col 2. You are like most of Churchianity, you cannot see "baptism" without thinking "water".

A revelation you seem to transfigure into a religion that doesn't require the washing of regeneration.

Wrong... just doesn't require a Hebrew water ceremony.

Are not all believers Jews at heart?

Nope.

They were not Jews, and they were preached baptism by man's hand.

Nope.

Not always.
But we were told there would be persecutions.

And?

Me too.
But it was after my water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins...using water.

You believe in myths.

Just as Peter said in Acts 2:38, and the Samarians, (Acts 8), the twelve at Ephesus, (Acts 19), and the Corinthians, (Acts 18, 1 Cor 1)

Again, Peter is one of the TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL. He is NOT speaking to the body of Christ... that is Paul's territory.

How long have you been sin free?

I'm not "sin free", but I am freed from sin ever since I believed the gospel of my salvation.

 

[Right Divider]

I think not, and I am walking with the Proof in me.

Only in the myth world in your head.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Except that the Bible says it is by grace, and through faith, and that faith is a gift of God.

No, "grace" is the gift of God. Grace is what is being talked about. "For by grace are you saved... It is the gift of God"

The "through faith" is just a prepositional phrase modifying "grace." Grace, not works.

 

[Derf]

The faith given is faith (belief, and clinging to) something specific. All of which Paul has already given before this particular passage. In brief---that would be the cross---the life death and resurrection and ascension of Jesus to redeem those who depend on Him for salvation.

Paul gives the information, but not the faith to believe it. God gives the gift (life death resurrection in Jesus' life death resurrection), but not the faith to believe it, just as he gave gifts to Abraham, but not the faith--it was reckoned as righteousness because the righteousness wasn't from Abraham, just the faith.

 

[Derf]

No, "grace" is the gift of God. Grace is what is being talked about. "For by grace are you saved... It is the gift of God"

The "through faith" is just a prepositional phrase modifying "grace." Grace, not works.

The prepositional phrase "through faith" might modify the whole prepositional phrase "by grace", because adverbial phrases don't modify nouns, but they can modify other adverbial phrases.

 

[Derf]

Except that the Bible says it is by grace, and through faith, and that faith is a gift of God. The very Greek word translated faith in that passage indicates something that is given because it comes from outside of us. That does not mean it is forced on us. By logic, if it is forced, it is not real. It is a working of the Holy Spirit (John 3) on a person that opens the eyes of their understanding, removes the hard heart replacing it with a heart of flesh, so that when they hear the gospel, they choose----not to believe, but choose Christ.

You can find several other verses where grace is a gift, but no other where faith is a gift.

And the faith in Christ allows access to the grace:
Romans 5:1-2 (KJV) 1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 5:15 (KJV)
But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Romans 5:17 (KJV)
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Ephesians 3:7 (KJV)
Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 4:7 (KJV)
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

 

[Arial]

You can find several other verses where grace is a gift, but no other where faith is a gift.

Of course grace is a gift---it is undeserved. But that grace comes through faith, and faith itself is a gift. You are simply splitting hairs.

 

[Arial]

No, "grace" is the gift of God. Grace is what is being talked about. "For by grace are you saved... It is the gift of God"

The "through faith" is just a prepositional phrase modifying "grace." Grace, not works.

By grace---it is purely the grace of God that saves anyone.
Through faith----believing and trusting in the person and work of Jesus, is necessary
Which is the gift of God. In His grace He gives the faith. Otherwise faith would be something we have to come up with ourselves.