The Religion of Blinding Bluster

[PureX]

There is something disturbingly wrong with the argument that killing babies is OK if you make sure they do not experience pain. Should that also hold true about other family members or hold true if other family members want to kill you in some painless way?

You can't seem to let go of the idea that a fetus is a "baby". A fetus becomes a baby at some point in the process of gestational development. But we don't know exactly when that occurs, or how to determine that it has, and so we don't all agree with your presumptions about it. Thinking you're right doesn't make you right. Nor does it give you the right to impose your presumed righteousness on anyone else. Pro choice is pro choice, not pro abortion. No one thinks abortion is a good thing. But some people think it may be a necessary thing under some circumstances. And they should have the right to act as they see fit, within reasoned limits. How you personally feel about it is not their responsibility to consider. That's your own business.

 

[marke]

I would say that cognizant autonomy is a very important factor. And I don't know when that occurs in humans. Maybe not even until after we're born.

I worked with the 'retarded' back in the 1960s with a volunteer group called "Teens Aid The Retarded." I met many disabled persons who may well have been brain dead by some modern standards, but they were real people and still living and we still held their hands as they took short walks outside. I believe it requires extreme coldness to murder humans no matter how old or young or how wise or stupid.

 

[PureX]

I worked with the 'retarded' back in the 1960s with a volunteer group called "Teens Aid The Retarded." I met many disabled persons who may well have been brain dead by some modern standards, but they were real people and still living and we still held their hands as they took short walks outside. I believe it requires extreme coldness to murder humans no matter how old or young or how wise or stupid.

You have a right to feel however you do about it. But so does everyone else. Your feelings do not usurp theirs. And feelings are not facts. Sometimes we need to rely on facts when our feelings tend to mislead us. Keeping people as you describe is a luxury our society can afford. But not all societies in all times and places could. Choices have to be made, sometimes, regardless of how immoral or distasteful they are.

 

[ok doser]

No one thinks abortion is a good thing.

No one thinks euthanizing the mentally handicapped is a good thing.

But some people think it may be a necessary thing under some circumstances.

But some people think that euthanizing the mentally handicapped may be a necessary thing under some circumstances.

And they should have the right to act as they see fit, within reasoned limits.

And they should have the right to euthanize the mentally handicapped as they see fit, within reasoned limits

How you personally feel about it is not their responsibility to consider. That's your own business.

How you personally feel about it is not their responsibility to consider. That's your own business.

 

[Right Divider]

Belief is not truth.

God's Word is truth. You have nothing but your own opinion.

 

[PureX]

God's Word is truth. You have nothing but your own opinion.

And you have nothing but your own belief.

 

[Right Divider]

And you have nothing but your own belief.

My belief is better than yours. Yours is inconsistent. In your belief system, only you know anything. You're confused.

 

[Right Divider]

I would say that cognizant autonomy is a very important factor. And I don't know when that occurs in humans. Maybe not even until after we're born.

And YET every human starts out the same way. At conception, they are a NEW and UNIQUE human person. That does NOT come "later".

 

[PureX]

And YET every human starts out the same way. At conception, they are a NEW and UNIQUE human person. That does NOT come "later".

Is that where we 'start'? Or maybe we start with the desire to procreate? Or maybe we started with the advent of life on Earth? Or ultimately it all started with the 'big bang'.

In a universe of cause and effect, where things 'start' becomes pretty subjective. Same for where things 'end'.

 

[Right Divider]

Is that where we 'start'? Or maybe we start with the desire to procreate?

The "desire to procreate" does NOT create a NEW and UNIQUE human person. The NEW and UNIQUE human person begins THEIR LIFE when the sperm impregnates the egg.

Or maybe we started with the advent of life on Earth? Or ultimately it all started with the 'big bang'.

The "big bang" is nonsense.

In a universe of cause and effect where things 'start' becomes pretty subjective. Same for where things 'end'.

You are out of your mind.

 

[PureX]

The "desire to procreate" does NOT create a NEW and UNIQUE human person. The NEW and UNIQUE human person begins THEIR LIFE when the sperm impregnates the egg.

But that all depends on who desires to procreate with whom. Everything is part of the chain of cause and effect. Where you decide to draw a starting or finish line is just your own subjective choice.

The "big bang" is nonsense.

Saying it (believing it) doesn't make it so. No matter how much you 'bluster' about it, this will always remain true.

 

[Right Divider]

But that all depends on who desires to procreate with whom.

Everything is part of the chain of cause and effect. Where you decide to draw a starting or finish line is just your own subjective choice.

Human life starts at conception. It's a simple scientific fact.

Saying it (believing it) doesn't make it so. No matter how much you 'bluster' about it, this will always remain true.

 

[ok doser]

But that all depends on who desires to procreate with whom.

Not in the case of the woman who is raped

Everything is part of the chain of cause and effect. Where you decide to draw a starting or finish line is just your own subjective choice.

As a scientist I can tell you objectively that at conception a new genetically unique human life is created.

 

[PureX]

Human life starts at conception. It's a simple scientific fact.

Actually, we humans have no idea where or how life originated, human or otherwise. All we have are some theories, and some people like you who think they know, but don't.

 

[ok doser]

Actually, we humans have no idea where or how life originated, human or otherwise. All we have are some theories, and some people like you who think they know, but don't.

You're playing semantic games either because you're not interested in discussing this seriously or because you're a retard.

Science has firm evidence that each individual genetically unique human life begins at conception.

Before conception? Doesn't exist

After conception? It exists

 

[Right Divider]

Actually, we humans have no idea where or how life originated, human or otherwise.

You are confusing TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

All we have are some theories, and some people like you who think they know, but don't.

Human life begins at conception. This is a simple scientific fact.

There are TWO exceptions: Adam and Eve.

 

[Right Divider]

You're playing semantic games either because you're not interested in discussing this seriously or because you're a retard.

Maybe both.

 

[annabenedetti]

I would say that cognizant autonomy is a very important factor. And I don't know when that occurs in humans. Maybe not even until after we're born.

Cognition can be lost, PureX. That doesn't make the person who's lost cognition any less human. Babies aren't autonomous even after they're born. I've watched a lot of conversations (elsewhere, not here) about abortion since the SC memo was leaked, and it's been remarkable, seeing comments like "overturning Roe v Wade will harm women across the world" and wondering do they not see the irony in that? I don't have any answers, and really don't like getting into discussions about abortion whether I agree or disagree, so I'l leave you with the point, again, that the term fetus (while scientific, I get that) isn't a term anyone uses in non-scientific settings. In everyday life, in everyday conversations among ordinary people, it's a baby. "You're having a baby!" "We're having a baby!" "This is a gonna be a big baby, you're looking at a 9-pounder at least...""Baby shower"... and of course announcements of the coming event say... "baby." The term "fetus," in conversations, is quite often, if not usually, a conscious or unconscious attempt to distance oneself from connecting "baby" with abortion.

 

[Hoping]

Jesus didn't come to make us righteous. He came to show us how to transcend our unrighteousness.

If we transcend our own unrighteousness we are righteous.
And Jesus came to make it possible, through Himself.
It is written..."For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Cor 5:21)

 

[Hoping]

That's a very good argument, but it's only an argument based on our ignorance. Which does not give it the weight necessary for you to impose your conclusions on everyone else. Also, we have the benefit of anesthesia, now, so the issue of suffering is not pertinent.

Why would someone anesthetize what they consider lifeless?