The Religion of Blinding Bluster

[JudgeRightly]

You only think that because you are one of them. In the real world, no one is "either right or wrong".

Scenario: I see you out in the world, mug you, and take your wallet, watch, and anything valuable from you, and leave you bleeding on the street.

Question: Is what I did wrong?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Well, a tribe of ancient Jews has made it clear that they believe sex is wrong outside of marriage.

Sex is wrong outside of marriage because sex naturally results in a child being conceived, another human being, and by having such a relationship, you condemn an innocent human to a life of suffering because his mother is a slut and his father a deadbeat.

You're calling them "God" is a level of false idolization that I am not willing to accept.

No one is calling men God.

That's just your straw man.

We all belong to God.

What do you base this claim on?

And we will all die.

Is there anything after we die?

Some of us at the hands of others.

Isn't that unjust?

In a perfect would this would not happen.

We don't live in a perfect world. Deal with it.

But we don't live in a perfect world.

Duh.

And we are not perfect beings.

We are fallen creatures, in need of a Savior. You included.

You are not God,

Neither are you.

so you don't get to make that determination.

But you do? Hypocrite.

 

[PureX]

Under what circumstance is it right for a man to rape a woman?

When it's necessary for the greater good.

Just because we exist in a fallen world does not mean there cannot be absolute right and wrong.

It means that these absolutes don't apply in this world. What applies, here, is the greater good. And that is often difficult and sometimes even impossible to determine. Because we are not god's. But we do have God's love within us to help us do that. And all we can do is follow that guide and trust that it will be good enough.

In a perfect world, there wouldn't be a need to kill anyone in self defense, or in war, or as a punishment for crime. But we don't live in a perfect world, PureX, we live in a fallen world, where putting criminals to death who have committed capital crimes is necessary.

If that serves the greater good. But does it? We don't really know. Some of us think so, and some don't. You, of course, not only think so but also blindly presume yourself to be absolutely and unquestionably right. Which is just not realistic, nor honest.

 

[PureX]

Scenario: I see you out in the world, mug you, and take your wallet, watch, and anything valuable from you, and leave you bleeding on the street.

Question: Is what I did wrong?

Wrong for whom?

 

[ok doser]

... there could be circumstances that warrant what we call 'rape'.

... you absolutists are so out of touch with reality and so extremely absurd in your thinking.

You live in a fantasy of your own blinding bluster.

 

[JudgeRightly]

When it's necessary for the greater good.

Give me a specific circumstance.

"When it's necessary for the greater good" is too broad to be of any use in this conversation.

It means that these absolutes don't apply in this world.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

What applies, here, is the greater good.

The greater good of what?

And that is often difficult and sometimes even impossible to determine.

I can assure you, it's not hard.

You're just not trying. At all.

Because we are not god's.

We are God's.

No one is claiming to be God or a god.

But we do have God's love within us to help us do that.

It is not loving for a man to rape a woman.

And all we can do is follow that guide and trust that it will be good enough.

Let me give you an analogy that might help you see.

Imagine shooting an arrow from a bow at five feet. Pretty easy to hit the bullseye, right?

How about at 15 feet? Harder, but still doable, right?

What about 50 feet? Still doable?

How about 500 feet? Nearly impossible, right? Maybe it can be done, but it's not likely, assuming the bow could even shoot that far.

What about 1000 feet? Impossible, right? No human could shoot an arrow from 1000 feet away, even if the bow was powerful enough, and still hit the bullseye.

Now imagine trying to hit the bullseye with the same bow when the target is 50 miles away. 500 miles. 5000 miles, 1,000,000 miles.

Imagine you being on one side of the universe, and the target is on the other side, and you have to hit the bullseye, dead center, equally distant from the outside edge of the circular target.

That target represents heaven, and shooting the bow represents our attempts at living a perfect life, which, as you can imagine, fall far short of the target. It's not possible to hit that target from across the universe, yet that is the level of perfection that is required to enter heaven.

In other words, YOU CANNOT LIVE THE PERFECT LIFE. Trying to will ALWAYS result in failure, and failure results in going to hell. Failure is not "good enough." Perfection is the only bar that must be cleared, but "good enough" doesn't come anywhere close to perfection.

God demands perfection, because He is perfect. Perfect love.

If that serves the greater good.

The "greater good" has nothing to do with it.

It's a matter of justice.

But does it? We don't really know. Some of us think so, and some don't.

You claim to not be able to know.

I know, because I have God's word which tells me that it is so.

You, of course, not only think so but also blindly presume yourself to be absolutely and unquestionably right. Which is just not realistic, nor honest.

Straw man.

I don't "blindly presume myself to be absolutely and unquestionably right."

I don't consider myself the standard.

God is the standard.

Wrong for whom?

Is what I did wrong, at all.

 

[TomO]

All killings are murder.

Wrong...Gen. 9:6 predates the Covenant with and Commandments given to the Jews and is an injunction for ALL mankind...Just like the pretty rainbow.

Gen.9:6 NASB “Whoever sheds human blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made mankind.

I hate to tell you folks but the "Death Penalty for Murder" is the ONLY legitimate foundation for the existence of government.


*Edit: In fact...Upon further meditation I think I might have to re-think my view on a penalty for "Doctors" who perform elective "abortions".

 

[PureX]

Give me a specific circumstance.

"When it's necessary for the greater good" is too broad to be of any use in this conversation.

Sorry, but the greater good is dependent on many factors that we cannot know or predict. I won't play your silly games and you won't actually consider anything I post, anyway, so what's the point?

Saying it doesn't make it so.



The greater good of what?



I can assure you, it's not hard.

You're just not trying. At all.



We are God's.

No one is claiming to be God or a god.



It is not loving for a man to rape a woman.



Let me give you an analogy that might help you see.

Imagine shooting an arrow from a bow at five feet. Pretty easy to hit the bullseye, right?

How about at 15 feet? Harder, but still doable, right?

What about 50 feet? Still doable?

How about 500 feet? Nearly impossible, right? Maybe it can be done, but it's not likely, assuming the bow could even shoot that far.

What about 1000 feet? Impossible, right? No human could shoot an arrow from 1000 feet away, even if the bow was powerful enough, and still hit the bullseye.

Now imagine trying to hit the bullseye with the same bow when the target is 50 miles away. 500 miles. 5000 miles, 1,000,000 miles.

Imagine you being on one side of the universe, and the target is on the other side, and you have to hit the bullseye, dead center, equally distant from the outside edge of the circular target.

That target represents heaven, and shooting the bow represents our attempts at living a perfect life, which, as you can imagine, fall far short of the target. It's not possible to hit that target from across the universe, yet that is the level of perfection that is required to enter heaven.

In other words, YOU CANNOT LIVE THE PERFECT LIFE. Trying to will ALWAYS result in failure, and failure results in going to hell. Failure is not "good enough." Perfection is the only bar that must be cleared, but "good enough" doesn't come anywhere close to perfection.

God demands perfection, because He is perfect. Perfect love.



The "greater good" has nothing to do with it.

It's a matter of justice.



You claim to not be able to know.

I know, because I have God's word which tells me that it is so.



Straw man.

I don't "blindly presume myself to be absolutely and unquestionably right."

I don't consider myself the standard.

God is the standard.



Is what I did wrong, at all.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Sorry, but the greater good is dependent on many factors that we cannot know or predict.

You're the one who made the claim that rape is ok in some circumstances. The onus is on you to defend that position. You can't just make such a claim and expect people to accept it without evidence.

Or are you just trolling? Because that's going to get you banned.

I won't play your silly games

No one is playing games here but you, Mr. "Rape is ok in some circumstances".

and you won't actually consider anything I post, anyway, so what's the point?

Liar.

 

[Rusha]

The mother also has her own body, and the right to remove any unwanted growths within it.

That’s pro-abortion talking points. Comparing the unborn baby to a tumor in order to devalue the child.

The time to decide whether or not to have a child is PRIOR to having sex.

 

[Gary K]

Sorry, but the greater good is dependent on many factors that we cannot know or predict. I won't play your silly games and you won't actually consider anything I post, anyway, so what's the point?

Now that is hilarious. It's impossible to know what the greater good is. That is impossibly absurd as the Bible gives us a very strong frame of reference to know exactly what the greater good actually is. In fact, it speaks to that issue from Genesis to Revelation.

 

[Right Divider]

If your not defending the unborn because murdering them is a sin, why do you?

Who said such a thing?
We defend the right to life of every person (the POSITIVE) from murder (the NEGATIVE).

It is idolatry.
"My value is more than your value !"

Oh... aren't you the super righteous one?

I am not saying that at all... If someone ATTACKS me, I have every right to defend myself. My life is valuable to my family: to my wife, my kids, my grand-kids, my siblings, etc. etc. And nobody has the right to take my life but God.

I hope that you do get saved some day so that you can get over your extreme self-righteousness.

 

[Rusha]

The answer is no. Because we don't live in a perfect world where absolutes like that can exist. In this world, there could be circumstances that warrant what we call 'rape'. It's like asking is it absolutey wrong to kill someone. In a perfect world it is always and absolutely wrong to kill someone.

In what circumstance could rape ever be warranted? Also, killing isn’t the same as murder
which is why self-defense can be a legitimate argument in court.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Cognition can be lost, PureX. That doesn't make the person who's lost cognition any less human. Babies aren't autonomous even after they're born. I've watched a lot of conversations (elsewhere, not here) about abortion since the SC memo was leaked, and it's been remarkable, seeing comments like "overturning Roe v Wade will harm women across the world" and wondering do they not see the irony in that? I don't have any answers, and really don't like getting into discussions about abortion whether I agree or disagree, so I'l leave you with the point, again, that the term fetus (while scientific, I get that) isn't a term anyone uses in non-scientific settings. In everyday life, in everyday conversations among ordinary people, it's a baby. "You're having a baby!" "We're having a baby!" "This is a gonna be a big baby, you're looking at a 9-pounder at least...""Baby shower"... and of course announcements of the coming event say... "baby." The term "fetus," in conversations, is quite often, if not usually, a conscious or unconscious attempt to distance oneself from connecting "baby" with abortion.

In what circumstance could rape ever be warranted? Also, killing isn’t the same as murder
which is why self-defense can be a legitimate argument in court.

It's a rare thing for me to agree with both of you in the same thread on the same topic, but it's definitely refreshing!

 

[Rusha]

It's a rare thing for me to agree with both of you in the same thread on the same topic, but it's definitely refreshing!

My anti-abortion, pro-DP views have always remained consistent.

 

[Gary K]

That’s pro-abortion talking points. Comparing the unborn baby to a tumor in order to devalue the child.

The time to decide whether or not to have a child is PRIOR to having sex.

You and I almost never agree on anything, but the time to think about the child is long before having sex to produce one. The only way to ensure the health and welfafe of a child is pre planning so you know without a doubt you can provide for it's needs. Anything else is neglect.

 

[PureX]

In what circumstance could rape ever be warranted? Also, killing isn’t the same as murder
which is why self-defense can be a legitimate argument in court.

Killing is killing. Murder is just a legal assessment of quilt. Our legal or moral assessments are not absolute. And as to how rape could be justified, the fact that we can ask tells us that we cannot be absolutely certain that it could not be justified under some unforeseen circumstances.

The point here is that our concept of righteousness is just our concept of righteousness. Calling it absolute is just blind bluster.

 

[Gary K]

In what circumstance could rape ever be warranted? Also, killing isn’t the same as murder
which is why self-defense can be a legitimate argument in court.

Self defense is a moral defense which is far superipr than any legal defense because it does nor violate a person's conscience.

 

[Right Divider]

Killing is killing.

You love to be wrong.

Murder is just a legal assessment of quilt.

It is also defined in a more important place: The Bible.

Our legal or moral assessments are not absolute.

But God's Word is absolute and clear.

And as to how rape could be justified, the fact that we can ask tells us that we cannot be absolutely certain that it could not be justified under some unforeseen circumstances.

Your logic is illogical.

The point here is that our concept of righteousness is just our concept of righteousness. Calling it absolute is just blind bluster.

The appropriate question is: What does God say?
Since you have no clue... you are clueless.

 

[Gary K]

Killing is killing. Murder is just a legal assessment of quilt. Our legal or moral assessments are not absolute. And as to how rape could be justified, the fact that we can ask tells us that we cannot be absolutely certain that it could not be justified under some unforeseen circumstances.

The point here is that our concept of righteousness is just our concept of righteousness. Calling it absolute is just blind bluster.

This thread was titled very appropriately.