brewmama
New member
Perhaps you don't know what clergy is, or does. I have more than I need.
The real book on Christianity.
- Thread starter Mickiel
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Perhaps you don't know what clergy is, or does. I have more than I need.
Mickiel
New member
Clergy are those authorized to conduct services. Listen, you claim you have more scriptures than you need, how about sharing a list of clergy scriptures with me. I say you have none and are stalling; what say ye? Lets have them.
I say no clergy existed in the original church, they did not appear in church history until Terullian and the third century.
Mickiel
New member
Up until the second century, the original churches had no official leadership after the Apostles died off. The church had Elders, but they were all equal among each other, there was no hierarchy among them, and they did not take up residency in the churches they cared for, neither did the Apostles while they were alive. The original churches began to drift towards the organizational patterns of their surrounding cultures. Ignatius of Antioch was instrumental in this shift. In fact the use of a local church Pastor and hierarchy leadership came from him. It did not come from scripture.
Matthew chapter 6
Jeremiah 3:15 KJV - Titus 1:5-9 KJV - Hebrews 13:17 KJV -
Proverbs 27:23 KJV - Ephesians 4:11 KJV -
1 Peter 5:1-5 KJV - 1 Peter 3:15 KJV -
Mickiel
New member
It tickles me when you Christians try to prove something is biblical, when it is not. The term " Pastor" only appears one time in the New Testament, in Eph. 4:11; that's it, its nowherelse but in your minds. And even in Eph. 4:11, it means the Greek word " Poimenas"; that means ' Shepard." Its NOT an office or a title. Its a provider of care.
The church got " One Bishop rule" from the centralized political structure of Rome. They eventually made the " Pastor" this one man rule, and that last until this day. Its simply stunning how believers think this came from scripture, but all the other deceptions in the church are just as stunning.
ttruscott
Well-known member
The early Church was just as filled with sinners as it is today. Seek the Spirit now, not the past.
Mickiel
New member
In my view, there is no church of God now that is being led by the Holy Spirit; all the churches of God now are deceived. As they were back then. No one is learning from the deception, because no one wants to admit they are deceived. Or, no one is aware of it. That's why this thread is looking back. It is interested in the deception.
Satan (Jas 4:7) and his followers are the cowards (Re 21:8). :burnlib: We live by truth (Jn 14:6). :straight:
Mickiel
New member
You ask any Christian what " Times" they believe we are living in, at least 90% of them will say we are living in the last days. Now, the bible has a description of the church of God in the last days, its called " Laodicea"; its a church Jesus is not " In." They are a prosperity church and do not have the Spirit of God, but they are a church of God.
Of course Christianity will deny this is them, or they will just ignore these scriptures; but they will say these are the last days.
Of course Christianity will deny this is them, or they will just ignore these scriptures; but they will say these are the last days.
:yawn: Mk 4:15, 13:22
Mickiel
New member
In Revelations 2nd and 3rd chapters, 7 churches of God are revealed; 7 stages; 7 eras; 7 different time frames. 5 out of 7 of them are deceived.
Look in your bible, stop trying to teach the church of God is in a position it is not. satan is stomping all over 5 stages of the church. And the church is acting like he is not.
Look in your bible, stop trying to teach the church of God is in a position it is not. satan is stomping all over 5 stages of the church. And the church is acting like he is not.
popsthebuilder
New member
popsthebuilder
New member
To me the church has always been the congregation of the faithful to God, and always will be. A church isn't a building.
Mickiel
New member
Non Temple based simply means they did not worship in temples or buildings, they met in homes. And they did not build any temples.
Mickiel
New member
In Rev. 12:9 everybody is deceived by satan. The whole world has been exposed, and I am not excluded. Christianity has enough pride to think it has not been deceived; a serious mistake in self evaluation. It has developed an attitude of " Spiritual pride", Christians carry around this mentality as if they are immune to satan, and the devil has stomped all on them, and they are so blind to it, they can't even see or feel the stomps. Then the devil teaches Christianity to stomp on unbelievers and create a hell of continual stomping. Its been interesting to track this amazing seduction of the Christian mind.
2 Ti 3:16
oly::yawn: Only you can (Eph 4:14). :idunno:
How long have you been :scripto: reading our mail and :scripto: tracking us? :granite:
Mickiel
New member
By the 2nd century " The Sermon" pushed its way into the Christian service. The Christian sermon was borrowed from the pagan pool of Greek culture! That's where it came from. The " Sophists" were the first ones to use it so effectively. They were just a group of wandering teachers. They were expert debaters, masters at using emotional appeal. Orators became popular in Greek and Roman culture.
Around the 3rd century, the Christian church had began to die out, to fill the empty membership the local house church meeting, was slowly changed to an open service , the pagan ideas of " Hierarchical leadership" began to take root, and the idea of a religious specialist emerged. Many pagan orators and philosophers were becoming Christians, and their pagan ideas made their way into the Christian bloodstream; and that was the beginning of the arrival of a polluted stream.
Around the 3rd century, the Christian church had began to die out, to fill the empty membership the local house church meeting, was slowly changed to an open service , the pagan ideas of " Hierarchical leadership" began to take root, and the idea of a religious specialist emerged. Many pagan orators and philosophers were becoming Christians, and their pagan ideas made their way into the Christian bloodstream; and that was the beginning of the arrival of a polluted stream.
Mickiel
New member
Many pagan orators and philosophers were becoming Christian, and many of those men eventually became the theologians and leaders of the early Christian church; some were called " Church Fathers" by history, and their writings are still with us. ( Pagan Christianity pg. 91.). Thus the pagan notion of a trained professional speaker who delivered orations for a fee moved straight into the Christian bloodstream. This is Christian history, these former pagan orators , ( now turned Christian), began to use their Greco-Roman oratorical skills for Christian purposes.
If you compare a third century pagan sermon with a sermon given by one of the church fathers, you will find both the structure and the phraseology to be quite similar.
This is one way deception is born into a people, you slowly, over time, just mix the oil with the water, and there it lays. The oral sermon became a part of the church. The sermons were called " Homilies", now its called " Homiletics", and its a solid part of the Christian service.
If you compare a third century pagan sermon with a sermon given by one of the church fathers, you will find both the structure and the phraseology to be quite similar.
This is one way deception is born into a people, you slowly, over time, just mix the oil with the water, and there it lays. The oral sermon became a part of the church. The sermons were called " Homilies", now its called " Homiletics", and its a solid part of the Christian service.