The Preterists and Matthew 24:34

[Jerry Shugart]

Then according to you James lied.

No, he did not lie. You failed to answer any of my remarks in an intelligent manner.

James quoted Amos

You should look for yourself at the prophecy of Amos:

"In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old" (Amos 9:11).​

James didn't quote the words in "bold" but instead said the following:

"After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up" (Acts 15:16).​

James placed the return of the Lord Jesus in the future because the Greek words translated "I will return" is in the future tense. Despite this you said:

The reason James quoted Amos was to show that Amos' prophecy was being fulfilled right before their eyes.

If the prophecy of Amos was being fulfilled at the time of Acts 15 then that can only mean that the Lord Jesus' return was happening right then.

But now you deny that the prophecy concerning the Lord's return was happening right then:

Jesus didn't return in Acts 15.

You are just plain goofy!

 

[tetelestai]

How do you reconcile these verses Jerry?

(2 Sam 7:13) He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

(2 Peter 3:10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

On one hand you claim 2 Sam 7:13 speaks of an earthly kingdom that will last forever.

Then on the other hand you claim 2 Peter 3:10 says the earth will be destroyed by fire, and a brand new earth will be created.

 

[john w]

In your twisted world of defending Darby, when does David's Tent happen?

Dispensationalism completely ignores David's Tent because Darby forgot to mention it.

The punk resorts to his spam, as usual.

Tell us, Craigie, when was this fulfilled, and gives us your father the devil's take on Zech. 14:17 KJV?:

Zech. 14 KJV

1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. 10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses. 11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. 13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. 14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. 15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ***, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Tet: No Lord Jesus Christ on earth.

Vs.

-For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;
-Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle
-And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives
-And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. 10 All the land shall be turned as a plain.....
-And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
-And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.


Tet:Figurative...There is rain, plagues, war, punishment, nations way up there yonder in the third heaven, as that is what Zech. is depicting, you see, not on earth, uh, urr...Darby...Bullinger....You follow the teachings/inventions/theories of fallible men, unlike me, as I, Craigie, follow the teachings of infallible men, or women, or the pope....vision of a teenage girl.....Darby.....Bullinger.....Figurative.....hyperbole...fulfilled AD 65, or 66, 0r 70, 0r 666......No one taught dispensationalism, until Darby, and no one taught that the earth was round, until, and no one taught of the concept of "God the Father," until this "Jesus" I reference, in disrespect, flipping the bird at him, came around, and the idea that he will be King on the planet earth, ..........and Pluto was a planet, at one time, as when you discover objective truth, determines if it is, in fact, objective truth, you see, well, uh, urr, and thus, the Lord Jesus Christ was not really the Lord God, until I, Gomer Tet., discovered it, you see.....






Isaiah 2:3 KJV

And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.


Tet: Darby...............


Micah 4:2 KJV

And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.


Tet: Darby....

Preterist demon.

 

[tetelestai]

James didn't quote the words in "bold" but instead said the following:

James didn't quote the prophecy in Amos verbatim. He probably went by memory.

However right before James quoted Amos, James said "AS IT IS WRITTEN"

You want us to believe that James said AS IT IS WRITTEN, and then changed what was really written.

James placed the return of the Lord Jesus in the future because the Greek words translated "I will return" is in the future tense. Despite this you said:

I can't believe you are this foolish.

Look at Acts 2

Peter quoted Joel

(Acts 2:17) “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.

"I will pour out my Spirit on all people" is future tense.

Peter quoted Joel to show the prophecy was being fulfilled.

Using your logic "I will pour out my spirit" hasn't happened yet because it's future tense.

BTW, notice the "last days" part?

 

[steko]

Yep, Saint John!

The preterist Vern Poythrees said that if he were to defend premillennialism, he would use Zech 14 as his primary text.
It baffles the Preterists who have the guts to really examine it and consider its claims.

 

[tetelestai]

What about the OT? Who is being spoken of here:

"I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem" (Zech.14:2-4).​

(Zech 1:3) Therefore tell the people: This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘Return to me,’ declares the Lord Almighty, ‘and I will return to you,’ says the Lord Almighty.

Sounds conditional to me.

 

[john w]

Again, we see that Christ Jesus entered the real true sanctuary that wasn't made with human hands.
Yet, you have Christ Jesus coming back and sitting on a man made throne in a man made temple.

Why didn't Jesus enter the sanctuary in Jerusalem (the copy) that was made with human hands after His death?

Post 534, demon. Again:

Luke 2 KJV

7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Tet:According to you, "Jesus" was laid in a man made manger in Bethlehem in the Middle East.


Was the "the inn" referenced above, "man made?"



Luke 2 KJV

46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. 47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.


Tet:According to you, "Jesus" was sitting down, teaching, in a man made temple, in Jerusalem in the Middle East.



Matthew 2 KJV

11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.


Tet: According to you, "Jesus" lived in a man made house in Nazareth in the Middle East


Tell us Craigie, did the Lord Jesus Christ, whom you, in disdain, and in disrespect, refer to as merely "Jesus," wear "man made" clothes? Was Noah's ark "man made?"

Was the cross "man made," demon?


Stuff your satanic, deceptive "man made" ploy, from hell..............


He won't touch this, as usual, as his father, the devil, a Preterist, has a gag order in place on him, against me.

 

[Interplanner]

The 40 year symbol sure comes up a lot!

 

[tetelestai]

Yep, Saint John!

The preterist Vern Poythrees said that if he were to defend premillennialism, he would use Zech 14 as his primary text.
It baffles the Preterists who have the guts to really examine it and consider its claims.

Fulfilled !!!!

Example:

The Prophecy:

(Zech 14:8) On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.

The fulfillment in Christ Jesus:

(John 7:38) Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them."

I know it's really hard for you literalists to understand that "Living Water" is the Holy Spirt, but that's what "Living Water" is.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Nothing in Matt 25:31 that says Jesus comes to planet earth.

Nothing in Matt 25:31 that says the throne of His glory is on planet earth.

Of course you deny that the throne of David is an earthly throne even though it was originally an earthly throne and the LORD said that He would not alter the promises under the Davidic Covenant you say that He lied and did alter them. you also said:

I said nowhere in the NT does Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, or any other NT writer even hint of a future earthly kingdom.

The Twelve were with the resurrected Christ for forty days while He tutored the Apostles about the kingdom. And they believed that the kingdom would be restored to Israel.

If they were wrong then the Lord would have corrected them. But He did no such thing and only told them that they were not to know when it woud happen.

Of course you have not spent a second with the Lord while He personally taught you about the kingdom but despite that fact you think that you know more about the kingdom than they did.

Not only are you goofy but you are also prideful.

 

[john w]

I can't believe you are this foolish...................

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain

Tet: I can't believe you are this foolish. This was fulfilled at Super Bowl I. That's why it didn't rain at the LA Memorial Coliseum, you see..............



You demonic clown-even you know it.

 

[tetelestai]

The 40 year symbol sure comes up a lot!

Yes it does.

It's how long David's Tent stood.

It's how long the Exodus Generation wandered in the wilderness

It's how long it was from the cross to the destruction of the temple

 

[steko]

Fulfilled !!!!

Example:

The Prophecy:

(Zech 14:8) On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.

The fulfillment in Christ Jesus:

(John 7:38) Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them."

I know it's really hard for you literalists to understand that "Living Water" is the Holy Spirt, but that's what "Living Water" is.

Mr. Poythrees evidently saw more in it than you do.

 

[tetelestai]

Of course you deny that the throne of David is an earthly throne even though it was originally an earthly throne and the LORD said that He would not alter the promises under the Davidic Covenant you say that He lied and did alter them. you also said:

Jerry, where is David's throne right now?

You claim the promise was forever, so where is the throne right now?

When you're done telling us where David's earthly throne is right now, please explain how the earthly kingdom lasts forever since you also claim the earth will be destroyed by fire.

Does David's earthly throne get destroyed in your great fire?

 

[tetelestai]

Mr. Poythrees evidently saw more in it than you do.

Living Waters is the Holy Spirit.

Jesus tells us so:

(John 7:39) By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

Please don't tell me that you think rivers of living water is literal?

If you do, do you also think rivers of milk and honey are literal?

 

[john w]

Please don't tell me that you think rivers of living water is literal?

If you do, do you also think rivers of milk and honey are literal?

Satanic sophistry-Tet: It's all figurative.


Zech 14 KJV

-For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;
-Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle
-And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives
-And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. 10 All the land shall be turned as a plain.....
-And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
-And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.




Tet: The above is not literal, because the bible employs one, or the other, not both, as I, Preterist Craigie Tet., reject that the bible often has a literal application, and a "spiritual" application. That's what my Preterist teachers taught me.


Demonic clown.

 

[john w]

Living Waters is the Holy Spirit.

Jesus tells us so:

(John 7:39) By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

Please don't tell me that you think rivers of living water is literal?

If you do, do you also think rivers of milk and honey are literal?

Vs.

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.


Tet: Darby...

 

[Jerry Shugart]

How do you reconcile these verses Jerry?

(2 Sam 7:13) He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

(2 Peter 3:10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

On one hand you claim 2 Sam 7:13 speaks of an earthly kingdom that will last forever.

Then on the other hand you claim 2 Peter 3:10 says the earth will be destroyed by fire, and a brand new earth will be created.

You are really ignorant of the meaning of the Hebrew word `owlam:

"He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever (`owlam ) " (2 Sam.7:13).​

Here the Hebrew word 'owlam is translated "ever" and that word does not always refer to endless time. When that word is used as referring to the future, as at 2 Sam.7:13, then the meaning of that word is "defined by the nature of the thing itself": "It more often refers to 'future time,' in such a manner, that what is called 'terminus ad quem,' it is always defined by the nature of the thing itself" (Geseniu's Lexicon).

In this case, it refers to the kingdom lasting until the time when the kingdom is delivered up to the Father at the end of time (1 Cor.15:24).

Let us look at the following verse:

"And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever ('owlam) " (Ex.21:5-6).​

Here it is said that if a servant desires to stay with his master for the rest of his life then "he shall serve him for ever." By the context we can understand that the servant will not serve his master for eternity or for an endless amount of time but instead for the remainder of his life.

In order to illustrate this principle let us look at what is said in regard to the land that God gave to Jacob:

"And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwell...My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore (`owlam) " (Ez.37:25-28).​

It is not possible that the Lord will shall be in the midst of them throughout eternity since the land which God gave Jacob is going to be destroyed at some time in the future:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved...Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness" (2 Pet.3:10-11, 13).​

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest" (Heb.1:10-11).​

Both Charles Ryrie and John Walvoord were right when they said that some of the "everlasting" promises and covenants spoken of in the OT only apply to time and history and when time and history have come to an end and give way to a timeless eternity then those 'everlasting' promises and covenants will cease.

 

[steko]

Living Waters is the Holy Spirit.

Jesus tells us so:

(John 7:39) By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

Please don't tell me that you think rivers of living water is literal?

If you do, do you also think rivers of milk and honey are literal?

The living waters of Zech 14, Joel 3 and Ezekiel 47 are literal.

 

[steko]

Jerry, where is David's throne right now?

You claim the promise was forever, so where is the throne right now?

When you're done telling us where David's earthly throne is right now, please explain how the earthly kingdom lasts forever since you also claim the earth will be destroyed by fire.

Does David's earthly throne get destroyed in your great fire?

You talk like an unbelieving skeptic of the Bible.