The Pope is Pro-homo, and that's bad

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Like I said this is a difficult topic. Here is my line of thinking, the baby needs the mother to survive, and will take nutrients from her to continue to grow. If a woman does not want that happening inside of her I understand that. It is her body being used, so I think she should get to decide.
This is the argument of personal autonomy. It is easily rebutted by the following scenario: A young mother with a difficult infant - colicky, screaming, impossible to console. A young mother living by herself in an isolated environment with no other people to draw upon for assistance. Is it ethical for her to abandon that child?
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Depends on the kind of slavery.

There's the kind used as a punishment for crime, and there's the kind based on kidnapping. The former is just, and the latter is a crime.
I was reading about slavery as it existed in Africa before the Portuguese started it as an industry in the 15th century - enslavement was a punishment for criminal behavior, and for those captured in war between tribes. It was seen as just and natural.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Fair enough... I would not put homosexuality in the same category as the other two. I think it is a good thing homosexuality is now pretty widely accepted.
I suspect you are younger than 40 yo?
As for the other two, I haven't seen rape or pedophilia becoming accepted personally (not to see it hasn't) but I would agree that those actions are wrong.
There was a story just today, here, that I commented on about government schools providing condoms and instructions on how to use them for 5th graders.

To engage in an activity to which they cannot legally consent.

Chew on that.


As far as rape goes there are numerous stories similar to that of Brock Turner (google it). There is the disgraceful case of the leftist media protecting Joe Biden from the credible accusations of rape from a former staffer, Tara Reade. There is an unwillingness by the leftist media and the government to deal with endemic rape among our immigrant Muslim population. And there is the decision by our current president to allow into our country unregulated and unmonitored illegal immigrants who have been convicted of rape and child molestation.
 
Last edited:

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
I would fundamentally disagree, humans are animals. We evolved just like every other species from a common ancestor.
Just a bit of a heads up here. A lot of the people you're going to be debating with on here deny evolution and believe in a young earth.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
That's not good. Pretty conclusive evidence that both of those are wrong.
Agreed, but in fairness this is a self admittedly conservative site so you'll get some flak...if you can handle it it can be pretty fun on occasion though. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: RVK

RVK

New member
I was reading about slavery as it existed in Africa before the Portuguese started it as an industry in the 15th century - enslavement was a punishment for criminal behavior, and for those captured in war between tribes. It was seen as just and natural.
I would hope that you agree that slavery is not just, and if the Bible were divinely inspired then God would have taken issue with the idea of slavery regardless of whether it was acceptable during the time.
 

JudgeRightly

裁判官が正しく判断する
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Gold Subscriber
I would hope that you agree that slavery is not just, and if the Bible were divinely inspired then God would have taken issue with the idea of slavery regardless of whether it was acceptable during the time.

Again, which kind of slavery?
 

RVK

New member
This is the argument of personal autonomy. It is easily rebutted by the following scenario: A young mother with a difficult infant - colicky, screaming, impossible to console. A young mother living by herself in an isolated environment with no other people to draw upon for assistance. Is it ethical for her to abandon that child?
I would say no. She could give it up for adoption though.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
I would hope that you agree that slavery is not just
The alternative was execution
and if the Bible were divinely inspired then God would have taken issue with the idea of slavery regardless of whether it was acceptable during the time.
In many forms of slavery, even in the new world, especially in the North, the slave was often a valued member of the family, entrusted with goods and wealth and responsibility. There are accounts of slaves in British North America (Canada) being sent into the Pays d'en Haut to trade with the indigenous peoples for years at a time.
 

RVK

New member
Why?
Her autonomy is affected more directly and more severely then when she was carrying the child in utero.

Not an option in my scenario
This is a cool thought experiment, thank you. My issue here that this situation seems extremely unlikely if not impossible. If this were to somehow occur I think the bigger issue here is survival. This is probably a very unsatisfying answer but I guess I would need more context to give a better response.
 

RVK

New member
The alternative was execution

In many forms of slavery, even in the new world, especially in the North, the slave was often a valued member of the family, entrusted with goods and wealth and responsibility. There are accounts of slaves in British North America (Canada) being sent into the Pays d'en Haut to trade with the indigenous peoples for years at a time.
The only thing you can do with criminals are execution or enslavement? But I think the most important thing to focus on is that how they were treated is not the biggest issue. The fact that they were property is unacceptable. No circumstance can justify that for me, no matter how well they were treated (in most cases slaves were not valued).
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
This is a cool thought experiment, thank you. My issue here that this situation seems extremely unlikely if not impossible. If this were to somehow occur I think the bigger issue here is survival. This is probably a very unsatisfying answer but I guess I would need more context to give a better response.
I've removed all of the extraneous context to focus on the core principles.

The mother.

The child.

The child's life.

The mother's autonomy.
 
Top