The messiah didn't come yet

[turbosixx]

Bs"d

According to my humble opinion, the fourth kingdom were the romans, the fifth, the feet of iron mixed with clay, will be "united" europe, and Gods everlasting kingdom, will the rule of the Jews over the whole earth.

So the kingdom of God is not yet established, just like the last one of iron and clay.


"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

Just so you know, I’m on this forum to challenge my thinking as well as others, and I mean no disrespect.

Obviously I’m looking at this from the perspective of a Gentile. From my perspective, you’re looking at this with too much bias. Daniel only mentions four kingdoms and in the parallel dream in chapter 7 there are only four kingdoms. It’s obvious that Jesus lived during the Roman Empire and made a huge impact that lasts today and will to the end of time.

From my understanding, when God’s people in the OT were acting up he would send persecutions of differing types to wake them up so they would turn back to him. I see the same thing today. The temple was destroyed by the Romans coming up on 2,000 years ago. Without the temple and the priesthood, God cannot be worshiped as he instructed. For over 1,300 years, a false religious sanctuary has occupied the temple mount. Since the fall of man God has never gone even close to this long without interaction with his people.

I’m curious what you think. If Jesus isn’t the Messiah, why do you think God has not answered the cries of his people for over 2,000 years?

 

[Ben Masada]

Jesus established "the kingdom of heaven" God is king of that kingdom. as opposed to the Jewish idea of The Kingdom of Israel.

Jesus was born/incarnate into Judaism, a monotheistic religion geographically located in the best place for his Original Gospel to go out into the world. Judaism was Theologically suited for the gospel Jesus taught; that all men and women of earth are in fact Sons and daughters of God, that by faith we may realize this ennobling truth.

God delegates powers and authority in his creators Sons with whom he is indivisibly unified in divine oneness.

Jesus, in unison with his heavenly Father is your maker Ben. I'm sympathetic with your stubbornness but the facts are what they are.

It's difficult however to understand why you deny so much and pretend like Jesus was just an average practicing Jew who has been exaggerated and venerated by other common Jews of his day.

If you believe that Jesus was a Jew, you have no choice but to believe that he is dead. According to the Word of God aka the Tanach, every one once dead will never return from the grave. (II Sam. 12:23; 14:14; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9).

 

[Elia]

I’m curious what you think. If Jesus isn’t the Messiah, why do you think God has not answered the cries of his people for over 2,000 years?

Bs"d

If he was the messiah, then why is he not answering the cries of the Christians who are slaughtered by the millions by the muslims?

And what makes you think that God doesn't answer the cries of His people?

Why do you think the state of Israel is back again, and why is God gathering in the Jewish people in Israel?

The endgame is beginning.

"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

 

[Caino]

If you believe that Jesus was a Jew, you have no choice but to believe that he is dead. According to the Word of God aka the Tanach, every one once dead will never return from the grave. (II Sam. 12:23; 14:14; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9).

I have plenty of "choice" as I am not confined to the fetish of the Jews religion or their failed prophecies and priestly writings. And according to >you< there is no life beyond death, so your faith is for nothing!

As for Jesus he resurrected a likeness of himself from the dead (just as he told his enemies in Jerusalem that he would do) and appeared to a number of believers before returning to his rightful place on high a soveregne Lord and God of this world.

Judaism served its purpose but developed a closed minded, nationalist ego leaving you with false expectations of your place in the world.

Then, tragically, you lost your calling.

 

[Caino]

Bs"d

If he was the messiah, then why is he not answering the cries of the Christians who are slaughtered by the millions by the muslims?

And what makes you think that God doesn't answer the cries of His people?

Why do you think the state of Israel is back again, and why is God gathering in the Jewish people in Israel?

The endgame is beginning.

"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

God isn't Santa Claus, mankind has a responsibility to govern itself and protect the innocent.

During the Holocaust there was a female prisoner of a concentration camp who survived to recant a popular saying. She bemoaned how fellow prisoners lemented "where is God?" Her question was "where is humanity?"

God hasn't gathered the Jews back to Israel any more than he saved millions from the Holocaust or any other Genocide on earth carried out by ignorant humans in power. The Jews simply started going back to their sentimental homeland assisted by Western nations after the horror of WWII.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

God isn't Santa Claus, mankind has a responsibility to govern itself and protect the innocent.

During the Holocaust there was a female prisoner of a concentration camp who survived to recant a popular saying. She bemoaned how fellow prisoners lemented "where is God?" Her question was "where is humanity?"

God hasn't gathered the Jews back to Israel any more than he saved millions from the Holocaust or any other Genocide on earth carried out by ignorant humans in power. The Jews simply started going back to their sentimental homeland assisted by Western nations after the horror of WWII.

The basis for the recreation of the Nation State of Israel actually started as far back as the middle 1800s. Assisted by the British & Americans, and an extremely wealthy and powerful Zionist lobby, the creation of Israel was ENTIRELY political. The building blocs for its creation stretching back as far as WWI. Thus its very apparent its creation has absolutely nothing to do with Biblical prophecy.

It boggles the mind to think that large sections of Jewish society, as well as the Christian right in the USA actually believe mankinds salvation is tied up in Jewish nationalism. The irony is the majority of the those living in Israel by blood alone aren't even Jewish anyway. Either way the Christian Rights and Zionist interpretation of end time prophecy and eschatology is a particular skewed if not a sordid one. When Armageddon does come and Jesus comes to judge mankind as Jehovahs appointed judge that's definitely going to be one group who will be in for a big big surprise. Jesus words at Luke 13:27-28 come to mind

"But he will speak and say to YOU, ‘I do not know where YOU are from. Get away from me, all YOU workers of unrighteousness!’ 28 There is where [YOUR] weeping and the gnashing of [YOUR] teeth will be, when YOU see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves thrown outside."

 

[Caino]

The basis for the recreation of the Nation State of Israel actually started as far back as the middle 1800s. Assisted by the British & Americans and an extremely wealthy and powerful Zionist lobby the creation of the Israel was ENTIRELY political. The building blocs for its creation stretching back as far as WWI. Thus its very apparent its creation has absolutely nothing to do with Biblical prophecy.

It boggles the mind to think that large sections of Jewish society, as well as the Christian right in the USA actually believe mankinds salvation is tied up in Jewish nationalism. The irony is the majority of the those living in Israel by blood alone aren't even Jewish anyway. Either way the Christian Rights and Zionist interpretation of end time prophecy and eschatology is a particular skewed if not sordid one. When Armageddon does come and Jesus comes to judge mankind as Jehovahs appointed judge that's definitely going to be one group who will be in for a big big surprise. Jesus words at Luke 13:27-28 come to mind

"But he will speak and say to YOU, ‘I do not know where YOU are from. Get away from me, all YOU workers of unrighteousness!’ 28 There is where [YOUR] weeping and the gnashing of [YOUR] teeth will be, when YOU see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves thrown outside."

Thanks SonofCaleb.

 

[iamaberean]

Bs"d

From this page: http://MountZion.notlong.com

Let us take a look at the prophetic qualities of Jesus.

In Matthew 4:17 he claims that the kingdom of heaven is at hand..

Now, almost 2000 years later, the kingdom is still not here.

Here G.d commands the Jewish people to execute false prophets, who are prophets whose prophecies do not come true. Jesus is a perfect example of a prophet whose prophecy did not come true.

Elia,

I find your posts to be very interesting, but wrong
Heaven is my throne, earth is my footstool..
Isa 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

The kingdom of God is within you. That is not an earthly kingdom, it is spiritual, and we are the temple of God.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

The reason we preach that we must be born again is because since Adam we have been dead, spiritually. Jesus is life and he must be allowed into his temple.

Joh 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Joh 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

 

[iamaberean]

Elia,

I find your posts to be very interesting, but wrong
Heaven is my throne, earth is my footstool..
Isa 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

The kingdom of God is within you. That is not an earthly kingdom, it is spiritual, and we are the temple of God.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

The reason we preach that we must be born again is because since Adam we have been dead, spiritually. Jesus is life and he must be allowed into his temple.

Joh 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Joh 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

After thought:

Did you know the last day, judgment day, has come and gone?

It happened the day Jesus was crucified.
Luk 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
Luk 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
Luk 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

 

[turbosixx]

Again this is from the view of a Gentile Christian.

Bs"d

If he was the messiah, then why is he not answering the cries of the Christians who are slaughtered by the millions by the muslims?

Christians see the battle has having been won through Jesus. Jesus suffered for us and we are told we might suffer for his name. I can't think of a better way of dying than in the name of Jesus.

And what makes you think that God doesn't answer the cries of His people?

When I read the OT, I see God answering the people's cries through a prophet and would eventually give them relief. In the last 2,000 years has there been any prophet or any relief?

Why do you think the state of Israel is back again, and why is God gathering in the Jewish people in Israel?

If Israel is back by the hand of God, what has the people done differently that they haven't done for the past 2,000 years?

The endgame is beginning.

Is God only the God of the Jews?

 

[False Prophet]

isaiah53
Who would have believed what we heard?
Who saw the Lord’s power in this?
2 He grew up like a small plant before the Lord,
like a root growing in a dry land.
He had no special beauty or form to make us notice him;
there was nothing in his appearance to make us desire him.
3 He was hated and rejected by people.
He had much pain and suffering.
People would not even look at him.
He was hated, and we didn’t even notice him.
4 But he took our suffering on him
and felt our pain for us.
We saw his suffering
and thought God was punishing him.
5 But he was wounded for the wrong we did;
he was crushed for the evil we did.
The punishment, which made us well, was given to him,
and we are healed because of his wounds.
6 We all have wandered away like sheep;
each of us has gone his own way.
But the Lord has put on him the punishment
for all the evil we have done.
7 He was beaten down and punished,
but he didn’t say a word.
He was like a lamb being led to be killed.
He was quiet, as a sheep is quiet while its wool is being cut;
he never opened his mouth.
8 Men took him away roughly and unfairly.
He died without children to continue his family.
He was put to death;
he was punished for the sins of my people.
9 He was buried with wicked men,
and he died with the rich.
He had done nothing wrong,
and he had never lied.
10 But it was the Lord who decided
to crush him and make him suffer.
The Lord made his life a penalty offering,
but he will still see his descendants and live a long life.
He will complete the things the Lord wants him to do.
11 “After his soul suffers many things,
he will see life and be satisfied.
My good servant will make many people right with God;
he will carry away their sins.
12 For this reason I will make him a great man among people,
and he will share in all things with those who are strong.
He willingly gave his life
and was treated like a criminal.
But he carried away the sins of many people
and asked forgiveness for those who sinned.”

 

[Elia]

isaiah53

Bs"d

For Isaiah 53 look HERE



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

 

[Ben Masada]

I have plenty of "choice" as I am not confined to the fetish of the Jews religion or their failed prophecies and priestly writings. And according to >you< there is no life beyond death, so your faith is for nothing!

As for Jesus he resurrected a likeness of himself from the dead (just as he told his enemies in Jerusalem that he would do) and appeared to a number of believers before returning to his rightful place on high a soveregne Lord and God of this world.

Judaism served its purpose but developed a closed minded, nationalist ego leaving you with false expectations of your place in the world. Then, tragically, you lost your calling.

"False expectations" left to us by Judaism! Isn't that what you have said above? Now, consider this: The Scriptures Jesus always referred to as the Word of God says many times that once dead, no one will ever return from the grave. Just to mention a few of them, read II Sam. 12:23; 14:14; Isaiah 26:14; and Job 7:9 which you label as false expectations of Judaism.

When Jesus asked Peter if he loved him; Peter said yes, and Jesus said follow me. Then Peter, pointing to John, asked Jesus about him and Jesus said, "If I want him to tarry until I return, what's that to you?" The impression left is that John would remain until Jesus returned. (John 21:19-22)

From the day of that conversation between Jesus and Peter and until present day, it has been over 2000 years and you don't see any false expectation in the false teaching that Jesus is on his way back to earth. John, likewise is no longer in Israel waiting for Jesus on his way to return. He too, like Jesus, has been since then down in Sheol aka the grave.
And of course, you find no false expectations in such anti-Jewish doctrine. How convenient is to operate under Christian preconceived notions!

 

[Ben Masada]

There were other suitable people and cultures on earth that could have been blessed with the incarnation of the Son of God but Abrahams descendants having the propensity for leadership were chosen in no small part because of their geographical location in the world as the intersection of the cultural centers and trade routes. It was the best location for the spread of the gospel message of Christ.

But like the lottery often goes to the heads of the winners, being selected went to the heads of the Jews. A religion evolved around it blinding them to the simple concept of Abrams faith in the Father.

You guys teach such an idolatrous message about Jesus that if the dead could hear what is said about them up here on earth, Jesus would turn in the grave. To attribute to God a son born without a biological human father is akin to the Greek myth of the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman which is the case with Mat. 1:18.

 

[Ben Masada]

The Messiah as conceived of by the Jews never will come. Collectively Israel is a false prophet nation, discredited and artificial, resurrected and supported by the pity of Western nations. They live in the delusion of their exaggerated history, a creation of the Hebrew priest of Babylon, perpetuated by the prophesier's of the religious establishment.

Your Messiah is MIA.

You become so blind when speaking about this subject that you forget the fact that Jesus was a Jew whose Faith was Judaism. Wake up because you are slandering Jesus himself in the process. For heaven's sake, do I have to defend Jesus against yourselves.

 

[Ben Masada]

Yup, that's more of your recycled cut and paste material that's all over the web word for word. :yawn:

Jews don't cut and paste. Haven't you ever read the Mark Twain's Essay about the Jews? If you would like to read it, tell me so and I'll post it here for your eyes only. It is not so long.

 

[Elia]

Jews don't cut and paste.

Bs"d

Where exactly is that written??

Haven't you ever read the Mark Twain's Essay about the Jews? If you would like to read it, tell me so and I'll post it here for your eyes only. It is not so long.

Let me give you a hand:

To conclude. -- If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. (in reality only 0,2%) It suggests a nebulous dim puff of star dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way. Properly the Jew ought hardly to be heard of; but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk. His contributions to the world's list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also away out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers. He has made a marvellous fight in this world, in all the ages; and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it. The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?

Here is the whole text of Mark Twains "Concerning the Jews":
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1898twain-jews.html

 

[Elia]

Bs"d

Why believe in a messiah who didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies?

https://tinyurl.com/Notestament

 

[marhig]

Bs"d

Why believe in a messiah who didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies?

http://MountZion.notlong.com

For starters, Jesus isn't God. He never said he was God but he did say that he was the son of God. The Jewish leaders claimed that he said he was God. He never did. Men have made him God. Jesus even says himself that the father is the only true God, and that the father is his God also.

And Jesus fulfilled everything, your just looking at the natural but not the spiritual. If you know God then you should know that Jesus comes from God. He's full of wisdom and understanding and he's filled with the Holy Spirit. Those who belong to him hear his voice, I know that Jesus is the Christ, and God has revealed that to me, and I've got no doubt whatsoever.

 

[beameup]

Bs"d

Why believe in a messiah who didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies?

He fulfilled the "first phase" of Messiah's duties. Then, as Daniel says, He was "cut-off" karath-karath
Abraham certainly understood that blood sacrifices for sin was mandatory.
Abraham also understood, through acting-out the sacrifice of Isaac,
that God would perform this sacrifice for sin in like manner.
Clearly Abraham recognized that he was an unholy sinner and needed redemption.