The messiah didn't come yet

[SonOfCaleb]

Yah, tomorrow is always tomorrow; a tomorrow that never becomes today. It's not fair to the agnostic. If he doubts that Jesus is taking too long to come, those who believe can always excuse themselves by saying, "We did not say today but tomorrow. Be patience and wait."

Its been over 4000 years of waiting for the 'Jews'..... Neither 'Israel' when they came out of Egypt, nor the Jewish remnant that returned to their homeland after captivity in Babylon had to wait that long for the Messiah that was promised to each of them, Moses and Jesus respectively.

 

[jamie]

Thus it was known from one of the earliest prophecy's by Moses who wrote most of the Torah that the Messiah would be from the tribe of Judah.

And Moses got that from Jacob's prophecy.

The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet until Shiloh comes, and to Him shall be the obedience of the people. (Genesis 49:10 NKJV)
​

Shiloh is a reference to the Messiah.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

And Moses got that from Jacob's prophecy.

The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet until Shiloh comes, and to Him shall be the obedience of the people. (Genesis 49:10 NKJV)
​

Shiloh is a reference to the Messiah.

Exactly.

 

[Elia]

Because they don't and cant know what Davids line is.... and have no way of ever finding out any of the lineages of any of the tribes. The Torah says as per Genesis 49:10 "The scepter will not depart from Judah.."
Thus it was known from one of the earliest prophecy's by Moses who wrote most of the Torah that the Messiah would be from the tribe of Judah.

Bs"d

What tribe somebody is from, goes through the father.

Since your messiah didn't have a human father, he not only is not in male line a descendant of king David, but you also have no idea what tribe he is from.

How more obvious can it be that your messiah is totally disqualified from being the messiah??

Combine this with the fact that he didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies, and for everybody with two working brain cells it is clear that he wasn't and couldn't have been the messiah.


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction. The Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say: “Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.”"
Jer 16:19

 

[Elia]

And Moses got that from Jacob's prophecy.

The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet until Shiloh comes, and to Him shall be the obedience of the people. (Genesis 49:10 NKJV)
​

Shiloh is a reference to the Messiah.

Its been over 4000 years of waiting for the 'Jews'..... Neither 'Israel' when they came out of Egypt, nor the Jewish remnant that returned to their homeland after captivity in Babylon had to wait that long for the Messiah that was promised to each of them, Moses and Jesus respectively.

Bs"d

What you guys overlook is that the messiah is planned for the END OF DAYS.

Also in the above prophecy: "The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet until Shiloh comes" that is clearly written. See what Jacob says before he gives this prophecy about the messiah: "And Jacob called his sons and said, “Gather together, that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days:"
Gen 49:1

Also in the following messianic prophecy, the messiah is to come IN THE END OF DAYS: "And now, indeed, I am going to my people. Come, I will advise you what this people will do to your people in the latter days.”
15 So he took up his oracle and said:
“The utterance of Balaam the son of Beor,
And the utterance of the man whose eyes are opened;
16
The utterance of him who hears the words of God,
And has the knowledge of the Most High,
Who sees the vision of the Almighty,
Who falls down, with eyes wide open:
17
“I see Him, but not now;
I behold Him, but not near;
A Star shall come out of Jacob;
A Scepter shall rise out of Israel,
And batter the brow of Moab,
And destroy all the sons of tumult."
Numbers 24

So you see the messiah is supposed to come in the end of days, and not before.



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

 

[Elia]

If the Messiah hasn't come yet for Jews, like you claim, why can't the the Jews produce one from David's line ?

Bs"d

There are plenty of people who have a tradition that they are a descendant of David.



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

 

[SonOfCaleb]

Bs"d

What tribe somebody is from, goes through the father.

Since your messiah didn't have a human father, he not only is not in male line a descendant of king David, but you also have no idea what tribe he is from.

How more obvious can it be that your messiah is totally disqualified from being the messiah??

Combine this with the fact that he didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies, and for everybody with two working brain cells it is clear that he wasn't and couldn't have been the messiah.

No disrespect intended but this post doesn't make an iota of any sense. Ive already explained to you and provided you with scriptures on the lineage of Jesus. Its in the OT the NT as well as in your own holy books the Talmud, Torah etc. Ive also provided you with a slew of scriptures that prove CONCLUSIVELY Jesus WAS the prophesied Messiah which even the Pharisees didn't dispute.

I find it quite ironic that you doggedly insist Jesus wasn't the Messiah and yet you have no way via lineage of ever positively identifying yours as being a LEGITIMATE son of David and thus an heir to King David. The identification of the Messiah by his lineage being absolutely integral and paramount to the prophecy (Because of the MANY false Messiahs who emerged before and after Jesus), which you seem to be happy enough to conveniently dismiss as Jesus Messiah-ship doesn't fit your narrative.

So not only are you willing to dispense and ignore Jewish tradition, Jewish academic history and the Mosaic Law that was built entirely on the family's, each tribe and their lineages which was of vital importance for identifying legal inheritances hence why it was kept in the temple, you have no way of ever identifying yours using your OWN criteria. Thats deeply ironic. No wonder your wait for your Messiah and Jewish liberation has been so long..........

 

[Elia]

No disrespect intended but this post doesn't make an iota of any sense. Ive already explained to you and provided you with scriptures on the lineage of Jesus. Its in the OT

Bs"d

Your man-god is NOWHERE to be found in the Tanach.

Saying otherwise is nonsense.

the NT

Your NT only provide two different genealogies of Joseph who wasn't his father, so that is totally useless.

as well as in your own holy books the Talmud, Torah etc.

From where do you get these crazy ideas???

Ive also provided you with a slew of scriptures that prove CONCLUSIVELY Jesus WAS the prophesied Messiah which even the Pharisees didn't dispute.

You only provided me with a slew of Tanach texts which have no bearing on the messiah whatsoever, and of those you claimed that they were "messianic prophecies fulfilled by your messiah".

This is not only dishonest, it is pure lying and deceit.

And that is what your religion is based on.

I told you, and I'll tell you again:

Here you can read why that is all lies and deceit:
https://sites.google.com/view/324x0/home

It is very simple: He didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies, therefore he was not the messiah.

I find it quite ironic that you doggedly insist Jesus wasn't the Messiah and yet you have no way via lineage of ever positively identifying yours as being a LEGITIMATE son of David and thus an heir to King David. The identification of the Messiah by his lineage being absolutely integral and paramount to the prophecy (Because of the MANY false Messiahs who emerged before and after Jesus), which you seem to be happy enough to conveniently dismiss as Jesus Messiah-ship doesn't fit your narrative.

It is again very simple: The one who will fulfil the messianic prophecies, that will be the messiah, and he will be from the house of David.

That's all we need to know."


O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction. The Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say: “Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.”"
Jer 16:19

 

[Ben Masada]

Its been over 4000 years of waiting for the 'Jews'..... Neither 'Israel' when they came out of Egypt, nor the Jewish remnant that returned to their homeland after captivity in Babylon had to wait that long for the Messiah that was promised to each of them, Moses and Jesus respectively.

IMHO, the concept of a coming Messiah is not of the individual concept but of the collective one. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what the Messiah is. The Anointed One of the Lord. (Habakkuk 3:13)

 

[Ben Masada]

((( "C-H-R-I-S-T"!! ))) Said What "HE" SAID In the "(( SPIRITUAL ))", never in the Carnal; not a bunch of junk you all want to use for your own stupid "belief"!!!

Christ came and DID Exactly what He said He would, and When He said. - It's just that NONE Of You Blind Know-It-Alls Care a thing about the "TRUTH" / "CHRIST" / The "Word of GOD"!!!!!!!!!

To you all; there was a "Person" called Christ, or Jesus; - NO There Was NOT!!! - The "Truth", and the "Word of God" WAS Just Given a Personality for stupid peoples understanding!!!! - There WAS NOT Anyone, or Person Called Christ or Jesus, BUT THE - "TRUTH / THE WORD OF GOD", "and has KILLED YOU"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read it. -- What's written Is Just PARABLES Of G-O-D!!!!!!!!!!!!

((( Watch Your NEWS )))!!!!

PAUL, DAVID - 122915

When a poster decides to start offending others, it is because he or she has realized that he or she does not have what it takes to discuss the Scriptures, especially with a Jew.

 

[Ben Masada]

In the parable the rich man is a portrayal of the Jews and the beggar portrays the Gentiles.

The beggar died and, although a Gentile, was carried into a close relationship with Abraham (Galatians 3:29)

The rich man died and requested a warning be sent to his brothers.

He was told they have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them.

The rich man claimed that if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.

The point of the parable is if they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.

And so it is today.

And Jamie a portrayal of Paul at the climax of his struggle at Replacement Theology.

 

[Ben Masada]

And here's a list of scriptures that prove Jesus was the Messiah:-

Prophecy Event Fulfillment
Ge 49:10 Born of the tribe Mt 1:2-16; Lu 3:23-33; Heb 7:14
of Judah
Ps 132:11; From the family of Mt 1:1, 6-16; 9:27; Ac 13:22, 23;
Isa 9:7; David the son of Ro 1:3; 15:8,*12
11:1, Jesse
11:10
Mic 5:2 Born in Bethlehem Lu 2:4-11; Joh 7:42
Isa 7:14 Born of a virgin Mt 1:18-23; Lu 1:30-35
Jer 31:15 Babes killed after Mt 2:16-18
his birth
Ho 11:1 Called out of Mt 2:15
Egypt
Mal 3:1; Way prepared Mt 3:1-3; 11:10-14;
4:5; before 17:10-13; Lu 1:17, 76;
Isa 40:3 3:3-6; 7:27; Joh 1:20-23;
3:25-28; Ac 13:24; 19:4
Isa 61:1, 2 Commissioned Lu 4:18-21
Isa 9:1, 2 Ministry caused Mt 4:13-16
people in Naphtali
and Zebulun to see
great light
Ps 78:2 Spoke with Mt 13:11-13, 31-35
illustrations
Isa 53:4 Carried our Mt 8:16,*17
sicknesses
Ps 69:9 Zealous for Mt 21:12, 13; Joh 2:13-17
Jehovah’s house
Isa 42:1-4 As Jehovah’s Mt 12:14-21
servant, would not
wrangle in streets
Isa 53:1 Not believed in Joh 12:37, 38; Ro 10:11,*16
Zec 9:9; Entry into Mt 21:1-9; Mr 11:7-11;
Ps 118:26 Jerusalem on colt Lu 19:28-38;
of an ***; hailed Joh 12:12-15
as king and one
coming in Jehovah’s
name
Isa 28:16; Rejected but Mt 21:42, 45, 46; Ac 3:14;
53:3; becomes chief 4:11; 1Pe 2:7
Ps 69:8; cornerstone
118:22, 23
Isa 8:14, 15 Becomes stone of Lu 20:17, 18; Ro 9:31-33
stumbling
Ps 41:9; One apostle Mt 26:47-50; Joh 13:18, 26-30;
109:8 unfaithful, betrays Ac 1:16-20
him
Zec 11:12 Betrayed for 30 Mt 26:15; 27:3-10; Mr 14:10,*11
pieces of silver
Zec 13:7 Disciples scatter Mt 26:31, 56; Joh 16:32
Ps 2:1, 2 Roman powers and Mt 27:1,*2; Mr 15:1, 15;
leaders of Israel Lu 23:10-12; Ac 4:25-28
act together against
anointed of Jehovah
Isa 53:8 Tried and condemned Mt 26:57-68; 27:1, 2, 11-26;
Joh 18:12-14, 19-24, 28-40;
19:1-16
Ps 27:12 Use of false Mt 26:59-61; Mr 14:56-59
witnesses
Isa 53:7 Silent before Mt 27:12-14; Mr 14:61;
accusers 15:4,*5; Lu 23:9
Ps 69:4 Hated without cause Lu 23:13-25; Joh 15:24,*25
Isa 50:6; Struck, spit on Mt 26:67; 27:26, 30; Joh 19:3
Mic 5:1
Ps 22:16, ftn
Impaled Mt 27:35; Mr 15:24, 25;
Lu 23:33; Joh 19:18, 23;
20:25, 27
Ps 22:18 Lots cast for Mt 27:35; Joh 19:23,*24
garments
Isa 53:12 Numbered with Mt 26:55, 56; 27:38;
sinners Lu 22:37
Ps 22:7, 8 Reviled while on Mt 27:39-43; Mr 15:29-32
stake
Ps 69:21 Given vinegar and Mt 27:34, 48; Mr 15:23,*36
gall
Ps 22:1 Forsaken by God to Mt 27:46; Mr 15:34
enemies
Ps 34:20; No bones broken Joh 19:33,*36
Ex 12:46
Isa 53:5; Pierced Mt 27:49; Joh 19:34, 37;
Zec 12:10 Re 1:7
Isa 53:5, Dies sacrificial Mt 20:28; Joh 1:29;
8, death to carry away Ro 3:24; 4:25; 1Co 15:3;
11, sins and open way Heb 9:12-15; 1Pe 2:24;
12 to righteous 1Jo 2:2
standing with God
Isa 53:9 Buried with the Mt 27:57-60; Joh 19:38-42
rich
Jon 1:17; In grave parts of Mt 12:39, 40; 16:21; 17:23;
2:10 three days, then 27:64; 28:1-7; Ac 10:40;
resurrected 1Co 15:3-8
Ps 16:8-11, ftn
Raised before Ac 2:25-31; 13:34-37
corruption
Ps 2:7 Jehovah declares Mt 3:16, 17; Mr 1:9-11;
him His Son by Lu 3:21, 22; Ac 13:33;
spirit begetting Ro 1:4; Heb 1:5; 5:5
and by resurrection


The Messiah was clearly not what the Pharisees expected hence why they rejected Jesus and Israel/Jerusalem suffered their terrible fate at the hands of the Romans in 70AD.
That being said even the Pharisees knew the Messiah would be a "Son of David" coming from the line of Judah. Matter of fact even the Demons that Jesus cast out via various miracles were able to identify Jesus as the Messiah or the 'Chosen one of God'.
All the records containing the lineages of each tribe were destroyed by the Romans when Jerusalem was sacked. So how do you expect to identify your Messiah and what salvation can this Messiah you're expecting offer to mankind?

I read them all and I did not perceive any reference at all to Jesus as the Messiah. Why? The Messiah son of David is a reference to the king Messiah, not to the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 which is a personal identification with Israel, the Jewish People. (Isa. 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21; Habakkuk 3:13)

 

[Caino]

There were other suitable people and cultures on earth that could have been blessed with the incarnation of the Son of God but Abrahams descendants having the propensity for leadership were chosen in no small part because of their geographical location in the world as the intersection of the cultural centers and trade routes. It was the best location for the spread of the gospel message of Christ.

But like the lottery often goes to the heads of the winners, being selected went to the heads of the Jews. A religion evolved around it blinding them to the simple concept of Abrams faith in the Father.

 

[Ben Masada]

The Messiah didn't come yet.

The Messiah didn't come yet.

No, he hasn't and he will never come as long as we think of him as an individual. But if we try to understand the collective concept of the Messiah, he has come three times already. The first time was from Egypt when the Messianic leader aka Moses made the Exodus possible.

The second time was from Babylon when the Messianic leaders in Ezra & Nehemiah, in the spirit of Elijah, came ahead of the Messiah to prepare the Temple for the return of the Messiah.

The third time was from the four corners of the world when Theodor Herzl inspired the Messiah with love for Zion and died trying to make possible his Messianic mission.

The Messiah cannot be an individual because, the Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what the Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord. (Habakkuk 3:13)

The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37)

 

[Ben Masada]

There were other suitable people and cultures on earth that could have been blessed with the incarnation of the Son of God but Abrahams descendants having the propensity for leadership were chosen in no small part because of their geographical location in the world as the intersection of the cultural centers and trade routes. It was the best location for the spread of the gospel message of Christ.

But like the lottery often goes to the heads of the winners, being selected went to the heads of the Jews. A religion evolved around it blinding them to the simple concept of Abrams faith in the Father.

The message of "Christ" was Judaism if we all are aware that Jesus was a Jew, whose Faith was Judaism. Jesus had never even dreamed that Christianity would ever rise.

 

[Caino]

The message of "Christ" was Judaism if we all are aware that Jesus was a Jew, whose Faith was Judaism. Jesus had never even dreamed that Christianity would ever rise.

Jesus established "the kingdom of heaven" God is king of that kingdom. as opposed to the Jewish idea of The Kingdom of Israel.

Jesus was born/incarnate into Judaism, a monotheistic religion geographically located in the best place for his Original Gospel to go out into the world. Judaism was Theologically suited for the gospel Jesus taught; that all men and women of earth are in fact Sons and daughters of God, that by faith we may realize this ennobling truth.

God delegates powers and authority in his creators Sons with whom he is indivisibly unified in divine oneness.

Jesus, in unison with his heavenly Father is your maker Ben. I'm sympathetic with your stubbornness but the facts are what they are.

It's difficult however to understand why you deny so much and pretend like Jesus was just an average practicing Jew who has been exaggerated and venerated by other common Jews of his day.

 

[Elia]

Jesus established "the kingdom of heaven" God is king of that kingdom.

Bs"d

That of course is a claim that nobody can check out. Like the saying goes: "If you are going to lie, speak of far off places".

But anyway, like Gods prophets proclaim in the Hebrew Bible, the messiah is supposed to set up an EARTHLY kingdom, and not an invisible kingdom in the sky.

And in that, your messiah totally failed. He didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies. And therefore he was not the messiah.

as opposed to the Jewish idea of The Kingdom of Israel. That is not only a Jewish idea, that is what is written in the Tanach, that the messiah will do that.

Jesus was born/incarnate into Judaism, a monotheistic religion

As opposed to Christianity, where a whole divine family is worshipped.

Jesus, in unison with his heavenly Father is your maker Ben.

No he is not. Our Maker is the one and only God Y-H-W-H who is one.

It's difficult however to understand why you deny so much and pretend like Jesus was just an average practicing Jew who has been exaggerated and venerated by other common Jews of his day.

Because that's what he was.

"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction. The Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say: “Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things. Therefore behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know My hand and My might; and they shall know that My name is Y-H-W-H.”
Jer 16:19-21

 

[turbosixx]

Bs'd

Shalom dear readers,

Hereby I want to tell you about the one true God, and give you shocking facts and data that has been suppressed by the Christian church for 2000 years. This was done by, amongst other things, burning Bible translators on the stake, mass burnings of Bible translations and corrupting Bible translations.
But now the truth is out. Look here:

http://mountzion.notlong.com

I have a question. What do you make of Daniel 2?
40 Then there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; inasmuch as iron crushes and shatters all things, so, like iron that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break all these in pieces……44 In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.

I believe everyone agrees that the 4th kingdom is the Roman Empire. Did God set up his kingdom during that time as the prophecy states?

 

[Elia]

I have a question. What do you make of Daniel 2?
40 Then there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; inasmuch as iron crushes and shatters all things, so, like iron that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break all these in pieces……44 In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.

I believe everyone agrees that the 4th kingdom is the Roman Empire. Did God set up his kingdom during that time as the prophecy states?

Bs"d

According to my humble opinion, the fourth kingdom were the romans, the fifth, the feet of iron mixed with clay, will be "united" europe, and Gods everlasting kingdom, will the rule of the Jews over the whole earth.

So the kingdom of God is not yet established, just like the last one of iron and clay.


"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

 

[OCTOBER23]

ELIA ,

It says , NO GOD FORMED - IN FRONT OF MY FACE .

The lord is chastising the Hebrews for making IDOLS and that is all He is doing.

-----------------------------------

06440 פנים paniym paw-neem’ pl. (but always as sing.) of an unused noun פנה paneh paw-neh’

from 06437; n m; [BDB-815b] {See TWOT on 1782 @@ "1782a" }

AV-before 1137, face 390, presence 76, because 67, sight 40, countenance 30, from 27, person 21, upon 20, of 20, *…*me 18, against 17, *…*him 16, open 13, for 13, toward 9, misc 195; 2109

1) face
1a) face, faces
1b) presence, person
1c) face (of seraphim or cherubim)
1d) face (of animals)
1e) face, surface (of ground)
1f) as adv of loc/temp
1f1) before and behind, toward, in front of, forward, formerly, from beforetime, before
1g) with prep
1g1) in front of, before, to the front of, in the presence of, in the face of, at the face or front of, from the presence of, from before, from before the face of
=======================

03335 יצר yatsar yaw-tsar’

probably identical with 03334 (through the squeezing into shape), ([compare 03331]); v; [BDB-427b] {See TWOT on 898 }

AV-form 26, potter 17, fashion 5, maker 4, frame 3, make 3, former 2, earthen 1, purposed 1; 62

1) to form, fashion, frame
1a) (Qal) to form, fashion
1a1) of human activity
1a2) of divine activity
1a2a) of creation
1a2a1) of original creation
1a2a2) of individuals at conception
1a2a3) of Israel as a people
1a2b) to frame, pre-ordain, plan (fig. of divine) purpose of a situation)
1b) (Niphal) to be formed, be created
1c) (Pual) to be predetermined, be pre-ordained
1d) (Hophal) to be formed