The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[freelight]

research

research

If "you" are completely "known" which we are in "eternity" than there is no "interplay" of personalities.

Interplay of personalities exists as long as relationship and movement of consciousness exists between such personalities.

They angles knew at the moment of their creation "God's plan".

Where do you assume this and can you prove it?

Some saw merit and some couldn't admit that they would have to "bow" and pay homage to a God made man...end of story.

Again, where is this stated in scripture, and why is it to be 'assumed'?

We seem to have the same "problem with the UB people who refuse to admit, with all their "enlightenment" that Jesus is a member of the Trinity, one God in three persons.

As shared earlier, Jesus is a Creator Son, whose order are sons of the Trinity (there are different orders of divine sons in the celestial heirarchy). All divine sons (of the higher ranks) are sons of the Trinity(and all creation and creatures naturally are offspring of that eternal Godhead).

Enough has been shared about 'Creator Sons' and their divine order on the thread already. The Papers reveal that a primary error in traditional Christology was that theologians assumed Jesus to be the original Eternal Son in the Paradise Trinity, but he is NOT,...but is truly a son of The Trinity, as a Creator Son, the creator and lord of this universe and our planet, on which he completed his 7th 'bestowal' (incarnation) whereby he won his title of Sovereign Lord completing his mission as Son of Man/Son of God, sealing such by his resurrection and ascension.

I think it's probably too simple for them to admit that in this (as in most) the Church has it correct.

It is only your 'belief' in the traditional/orthodox conception of Christianity and its creeds, traditions and dogma that you accept. A 'belief' and 'acceptance' of a institution's creed and dogma does not necessarily guarantee its truthfulness. A true seeker is ever open to investigate, research and explore wherever the spirit of truth leads him.



pj

 

[bucksplasher]

But when we "see clearly" at the end of time or our death (whichever: as sometime, time, well end) and we see God, we'll know God, ourselves, and others completely. We will be "married" one to another in matrimonial Heaven praising and thanking God for His benevolence and plan for our path on earth.

We know this through his "living Church" that even today speaks to our modern conditions and gives Christ's and the Father's position on life and death issues.

To those unwilling to be "one" with Church and Body of Christ on earth, we ask God's mercy on them.

We'll "all" be in the "truth" and be one with God in heaven.

Those who are not "one" will be separated and exist in hell.

tWINs

PS Why put off the inevitable?

 

[Caino]

But when we "see clearly" at the end of time or our death (whichever: as sometime, time, well end) and we see God, we'll know God, ourselves, and others completely. We will be "married" one to another in matrimonial Heaven praising and thanking God for His benevolence and plan for our path on earth.

We know this through his "living Church" that even today speaks to our modern conditions and gives Christ's and the Father's position on life and death issues.

To those unwilling to be "one" with Church and Body of Christ on earth, we ask God's mercy on them.

We'll "all" be in the "truth" and be one with God in heaven.

Those who are not "one" will be separated and exist in hell.

tWINs

PS Why put off the inevitable?

With all due respect Bucksplasher, and I do sincerely mean that, I respect you and KNOW that you are a man of faith and ARE SAVED, the social institution that you so devotedly defend is purely human. I realize that it is very sacred to you, but to me, while I know it has been a mighty force for good in the world, it has also served as a diversion from the gospel of Jesus. The "rock" was faith, not the human church.

Your heart felt concern and threats of hell are meaningless to me. I have a faith trust in the goodness of God, not fear based, frightened belief in static doctrine’s to save me from torture.




Caino

 

[bucksplasher]

But are you separated from the "truth"?

When I compare 2000 years of gradual understanding of the "truth" to a couple hundred or less of "revealed" (truth) from some spokespeople that speak for some invented theory of creation and speaking against the "gradual" truth...I have problems accepting the new.

You on the other hand seem to accept the "new" and as someone, has pointed out, taken it hook line and sinker.

All I ask is:

Does your "new" say anything different from the gradual?

Does your "new" actually require more suspension of belief than the gradual?

Any way good luck to you on your journey and I hope to see your in the truth at eternity.

tWINs

 

[Caino]

But are you separated from the "truth"?

When I compare 2000 years of gradual understanding of the "truth" to a couple hundred or less of "revealed" (truth) from some spokespeople that speak for some invented theory of creation and speaking against the "gradual" truth...I have problems accepting the new.

You on the other hand seem to accept the "new" and as someone, has pointed out, taken it hook line and sinker.

All I ask is:

Does your "new" say anything different from the gradual?

Does your "new" actually require more suspension of belief than the gradual?

Any way good luck to you on your journey and I hope to see your in the truth at eternity.

tWINs

Truth is "living" Buckspalsher, it is not static. Doctrine formation kills the living truth that it sincerely try's to preserve. I have faith in the Living God >now<.

What you keep saying is that, had you been Jewish you would have rejected Jesus using the very same argument:

"When I compare 2000 years of gradual understanding of the "truth" to a couple hundred or less of "revealed" (truth) from some spokespeople that speak for some invented theory of creation and speaking against the "gradual" truth...I have problems accepting the new."​

* the Jewish apostles had to "suspend" 1,500 years of belief in their inherited doctrine of gradual evolution in order to buy into Jesus "hook, line and sinker".

* we were born into Christianity so we gloss over the transition from Judaism to Christianity, from the OT to the NT as if it's "seamless". IT'S NOT!!!! Just ask the Jews and they will explain why, Jesus was VERY DIFFERENT from >their expectations< based in >their< inherited, evolved religion.

* The apostles explained that they viewed the OT writings differently after Jesus. I view the Bible differently after the Urantia revelation. A future age will view the UB differently after more is revealed.

* God is the final and ultimate truth, everything else will always be relative, incomplete, and shadowy.

* revelation occurs, then religion evolves from that, for better or for worse until a greater correcting revelation comes to update, sort and sensor the old and blend it with additional revelation.




Caino

 

[Aimiel]

Faith is just a tool... the 'human church' is His Bride, and is the most valuable thing there is.

 

[Caino]

Bucksplasher,


From the UB:

"Christianity is seriously confronted with the doom embodied in one of its own slogans: “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” The non-Christian world will hardly capitulate to a sect-divided Christendom. The living Jesus is the only hope of a possible unification of Christianity. The true church—the Jesus brotherhood—is invisible, spiritual, and is characterized by unity, not necessarily by uniformity. Uniformity is the earmark of the physical world of mechanistic nature. Spiritual unity is the fruit of faith union with the living Jesus. The visible church should refuse longer to handicap the progress of the invisible and spiritual brotherhood of the kingdom of God. And this brotherhood is destined to become a living organism in contrast to an institutionalized social organization. It may well utilize such social organizations, but it must not be supplanted by them.

But the Christianity of even the twentieth century must not be despised. It is the product of the combined moral genius of the God-knowing men of many races during many ages, and it has truly been one of the greatest powers for good on earth, and therefore no man should lightly regard it, notwithstanding its inherent and acquired defects. Christianity still contrives to move the minds of reflective men with mighty moral emotions.

But there is no excuse for the involvement of the church in commerce and politics; such unholy alliances are a flagrant betrayal of the Master. And the genuine lovers of truth will be slow to forget that this powerful institutionalized church has often dared to smother newborn faith and persecute truth bearers who chanced to appear in unorthodox raiment.


It is all too true that such a church would not have survived unless there had been men in the world who preferred such a style of worship. Many spiritually indolent souls crave an ancient and authoritative religion of ritual and sacred traditions. Human evolution and spiritual progress are hardly sufficient to enable all men to dispense with religious authority. And the invisible brotherhood of the kingdom may well include these family groups of various social and temperamental classes if they are only willing to become truly spirit-led sons of God. But in this brotherhood of Jesus there is no place for sectarian rivalry, group bitterness, nor assertions of moral superiority and spiritual infallibility.

These various groupings of Christians may serve to accommodate numerous different types of would-be believers among the various peoples of Western civilization, but such division of Christendom presents a grave weakness when it attempts to carry the gospel of Jesus to Oriental peoples. These races do not yet understand that there is a religion of Jesus separate, and somewhat apart, from Christianity, which has more and more become a religion about Jesus.

The great hope of Urantia lies in the possibility of a new revelation of Jesus with a new and enlarged presentation of his saving message which would spiritually unite in loving service the numerous families of his present-day professed followers."


Caino

 

[freelight]

church teachings.....

church teachings.....

But when we "see clearly" at the end of time or our death (whichever: as sometime, time, well end) and we see God, we'll know God, ourselves, and others completely. We will be "married" one to another in matrimonial Heaven praising and thanking God for His benevolence and plan for our path on earth.

How do you know that all the next world will have is endless praise and worship? - there are many mansions in the Father's House (Universe of universes) and many different kinds of occupations and pasttimes.

We know this through his "living Church" that even today speaks to our modern conditions and gives Christ's and the Father's position on life and death issues.

The RCC is just one branch of Christianity 'assuming' its the only true church of Christ with apostolic authority - there are many more to choose from across the board that might have more appeal.

To those unwilling to be "one" with Church and Body of Christ on earth, we ask God's mercy on them.

Prayer for all people and our planet does help uplift our consciousness Godward.

We'll "all" be in the "truth" and be one with God in heaven.

'God' is a present reality NOW. Truth is now. Reality is. Truth is the same in all space and time,....it is only modified or distorted by relative perception.

Those who are not "one" will be separated and exist in hell.

Well, this spoof on 'hell'(gehenna, sheol, hades, tartarus or the lake of fire?) has been treated on other threads, so not worth going into at the moment. One makes his own 'heaven' or 'hell' by the condition of his mind, correlating to his state of consciousness. On another level....what one sows, is what one reaps,....pretty much a universal law (karma). Other factors play into things, as much as they have the power to 'condition'.



pj

 

[Aimiel]

... the social institution that you so devotedly defend is purely human. I realize that it is very sacred to you, but to me, while I know it has been a mighty force for good in the world, it has also served as a diversion from the gospel of Jesus. The "rock" was faith, not the human church.

Faith is just a tool... the 'human church' is His Bride, and is the most valuable thing there is, ANYWHERE. He is more concerned about one little lamb than ten million galaxies. His sheep are very dear. He wants to find faith in the earth, but He wants more than that to occupy temples not built with hands.

 

[Caino]

"the kingdom of God is within you."



Caino

 

[freelight]

consider......

consider......

But are you separated from the "truth"?

Truth is living. Truth is a fluent reality ever present.

When I compare 2000 years of gradual understanding of the "truth" to a couple hundred or less of "revealed" (truth) from some spokespeople that speak for some invented theory of creation and speaking against the "gradual" truth...I have problems accepting the new.

The above is pretty 'loaded'. The UB's rendering of the creation account (much more detailed than the Bibles) correlates with 'God' as the originator of all being concurrent with facts of science of the early 20th century. (its context is consistent with a kind of 'theistic evolution'). Scientific facts will continue to be discovered and modifications of accepted knowledge will have to be adapted, however....spiritual laws and principles hold their essential consistency.

You on the other hand seem to accept the "new" and as someone, has pointed out, taken it hook line and sinker.

All things are subject to investigation, and continually at that. One is to always be 'asking, seeking and knocking'....open to change his point of view at any moment, for new revelation, a greater comprehension of truth.

One could equally argue you've chosen to 'swallow' the RCC's claim to religous truth or ecclesiatical authority, just because its 'assumed' its 'power' and 'influence' thru years of constancy and church-state rule. The institutional church certainly has its influence for good and morals, but has its cons as well, due to its structural features and tendencies towards spiritual stagnation and corruption.

All I ask is:

Does your "new" say anything different from the gradual?

A new revelation of truth will accentuate truths already given in any tradition, yet enhance, expand and add onto(where needed)...increasing one's over-all comprehension of truth. Some religious truth are 'evolutional' in nature (they unfold by natural growth/adaptation), other truths are given at certain dispensational adjuncts, being 'revelational'(divinely administered).

Any way good luck to you on your journey and I hope to see your in the truth at eternity.

Truth is now, since what is eternally true, ever is (whether you imagine a future heavenly state or nirvanic bliss state which is always at the heart of all). The 'journey' is our relative experience of space and time within the context of eternity. Wherever there is 'movement' or 'relativity',...there is a 'journeying'.


pj

 

[freelight]

All about 'Religion'

All about 'Religion'

~*~*~

Some of the most illuminative papers in the UB -

The Social Problems of Religion

Religion in Human Experience

The Real Nature of Religion

The Foundations of Religious Faith

The Reality of Religious Experience


It would do all well who are interested in what the Papers contribute on the subject of 'religion' to inquire within.



pj

 

[Aimiel]

Truth is living.

Only if you're speaking of Jesus, Who is Faithful and True.

Truth is a (fluid) reality ever present.

Truth doesn't change or bend to situational ethics or to meet your own desires.

The UB's rendering of the creation account (much more detailed than the Bibles) correlates with 'God' as the originator of all being concurrent with facts of science of the early 20th century. (its context is consistent with a kind of 'theistic evolution'). Scientific facts will continue to be discovered and modifications of accepted knowledge will have to be adapted, however....spiritual laws and principles hold their essential consistency.

Hogwash. God's Word is Truth, has never been disproved even once in a single point of historic or scientific fact stated in Scripture.

All things are subject to investigation, and continually at that. One is to always be 'asking, seeking and knocking'....open to change his point of view at any moment, for new revelation, a greater comprehension of truth.

Sounds like a strange way to live, to me: changing one's point-of-view on the slightest whim.

A new revelation of truth will accentuate truths already given in any tradition, yet enhance, expand and add onto(where needed)...increasing one's over-all comprehension of truth.

This principle is what tells Christians that the Urantia Papers came straight from hell. They clearly are designed to pull God's Word down into the gutter.

Truth is now, since what is eternally true, ever is (whether you imagine a future heavenly state or nirvanic bliss state which is always at the heart of all). The 'journey' is our relative experience of space and time within the context of eternity. Wherever there is 'movement' or 'relativity',...there is a 'journeying'.

:blabla:

 

[Caino]

Truth is living. Truth is a fluent reality ever present.



The above is pretty 'loaded'. The UB's rendering of the creation account (much more detailed than the Bibles) correlates with 'God' as the originator of all being concurrent with facts of science of the early 20th century. (its context is consistent with a kind of 'theistic evolution'). Scientific facts will continue to be discovered and modifications of accepted knowledge will have to be adapted, however....spiritual laws and principles hold their essential consistency.




All things are subject to investigation, and continually at that. One is to always be 'asking, seeking and knocking'....open to change his point of view at any moment, for new revelation, a greater comprehension of truth.

One could equally argue you've chosen to 'swallow' the RCC's claim to religous truth or ecclesiatical authority, just because its 'assumed' its 'power' and 'influence' thru years of constancy and church-state rule. The institutional church certainly has its influence for good and morals, but has its cons as well, due to its structural features and tendencies towards spiritual stagnation and corruption.




A new revelation of truth will accentuate truths already given in any tradition, yet enhance, expand and add onto(where needed)...increasing one's over-all comprehension of truth. Some religious truth are 'evolutional' in nature (they unfold by natural growth/adaptation), other truths are given at certain dispensational adjuncts, being 'revelational'(divinely administered).




Truth is now, since what is eternally true, ever is (whether you imagine a future heavenly state or nirvanic bliss state which is always at the heart of all). The 'journey' is our relative experience of space and time within the context of eternity. Wherever there is 'movement' or 'relativity',...there is a 'journeying'.


pj

Good points Freelight



Caino

 

[textman]

freelight say: Truth is living ... All things are subject to investigation, and continually at that. One is to always be 'asking, seeking and knocking'....open to change his point of view at any moment, for new revelation, a greater comprehension of truth.

Aimiel say: Sounds like a strange way to live, to me:

Strange or not, it is something that must be done ...
IF you wish to be a true follower of Jesus ...

changing one's point-of-view on the slightest whim.

It's hardly that, Aimiel. It only means that *ALL* the evidence can and should be taken seriously before coming to any major conclusions. Maybe you don't give freelight enough credit, Aimiel? He seems pretty darn sharp enough to me.

freelight: A new revelation of truth will accentuate truths already given in any tradition, yet enhance, expand and add onto (where needed) ... increasing one's over-all comprehension of truth.

Aimiel: This principle is what tells Christians that the Urantia Papers came straight from hell. They clearly are designed to pull God's Word down into the gutter.

Is this your idea of an objective and unbiased assessment of the evidence, Aimiel? :execute:

 

[Aimiel]

Strange or not, it is something that must be done ...
IF you wish to be a true follower of Jesus ...

I'm sorry you feel that way, but God doesn't change. He is the same: yesterday, today and forever. Those who follow Him follow The Way Everlasting.

It's hardly that, Aimiel. It only means that *ALL* the evidence can and should be taken seriously before coming to any major conclusions. Maybe you don't give freelight enough credit, Aimiel? He seems pretty darn sharp enough to me.

Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Is this your idea of an objective and unbiased assessment of the evidence, Aimiel?

Yes, since the Urantia Papers not only don't accentuate Biblical Truths but pull them down, we can quite plainly see the origin of them: hell. :duh:

 

[freelight]

going beyond ......

going beyond ......

Maybe you don't give freelight enough credit, Aimiel? He seems pretty darn sharp enough to me.

Thanks and welcome to the thread textman

Aimiel and I have disagreed on points of doctrine and theology for years,....and is currently on my 'Ignore' list. A much needed break. One can only 'dialogue' so far with one whose 'disposition' makes such impossible. God love him

The content and wisdom of the papers speak for themselves (consider content, terms, context), and as I've shared, I find interest and value in certain parts that resonate, - I'm by no means a UB fundamentalist, but only a 'fundamentalist' in the sense that I uphold the values, meanings and precepts that are 'fundamental'...and these arent limited to any one collection of books, culture or religious tradition. The Infinite can be channeled or expressed but never wholly contained. I love being a free spirit, and enjoy the venture of 'creative dialogue'.

Right this moment, all the potential and possibility of infinity IS! - why limit oneself?



pj

 

[bucksplasher]

Thanks and welcome to the thread textman

Aimiel and I have disagreed on points of doctrine and theology for years,....and is currently on my 'Ignore' list. A much needed break. One can only 'dialogue' so far with one whose 'disposition' makes such impossible. God love him

The content and wisdom of the papers speak for themselves (consider content, terms, context), and as I've shared, I find interest and value in certain parts that resonate, - I'm by no means a UB fundamentalist, but only a 'fundamentalist' in the sense that I uphold the values, meanings and precepts that are 'fundamental'...and these arent limited to any one collection of books, culture or religious tradition. The Infinite can be channeled or expressed but never wholly contained. I love being a free spirit, and enjoy the venture of 'creative dialogue'.

Right this moment, all the potential and possibility of infinity IS! - why limit oneself?



pj

I think we might "limit" ourselves because Christ limited himself. I'm sure he could've peeked into his superhuman powers of knowledge, use of angelic armies, etc. but humbled himself to remain as one of us. He was a Clark Kent who only entered the phone-booth to heal and show signs so that others might perceive his true nature after death...death on a cross.

I still say that "free" spirits don't seem to want to be bogged down by actual beliefs.

tWINs

 

[Caino]

I think we might "limit" ourselves because Christ limited himself. I'm sure he could've peeked into his superhuman powers of knowledge, use of angelic armies, etc. but humbled himself to remain as one of us. He was a Clark Kent who only entered the phone-booth to heal and show signs so that others might perceive his true nature after death...death on a cross.

I still say that "free" spirits don't seem to want to be bogged down by actual beliefs.

tWINs

"When a member of a social religious group has complied with the requirements of such a group, he should be encouraged to enjoy religious liberty in the full expression of his own personal interpretation of the truths of religious belief and the facts of religious experience. The security of a religious group depends on spiritual unity, not on theological uniformity. A religious group should be able to enjoy the liberty of freethinking without having to become “freethinkers.” There is great hope for any church that worships the living God, validates the brotherhood of man, and dares to remove all creedal pressure from its members."​

Caino

 

[textman]

hey caino, is that from UB? I like it! :thumb: