The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[Caino]

The Love that Jesus left us with is so often lost in the rigid ideologies and theological abstractions of Christianity.


"You cannot truly love your fellows by a mere act of the will. Love is only born of thoroughgoing understanding of your neighbor’s motives and sentiments. It is not so important to love all men today as it is that each day you learn to love one more human being. If each day or each week you achieve an understanding of one more of your fellows, and if this is the limit of your ability, then you are certainly socializing and truly spiritualizing your personality. Love is infectious, and when human devotion is intelligent and wise, love is more catching than hate. But only genuine and unselfish love is truly contagious. If each mortal could only become a focus of dynamic affection, this benign virus of love would soon pervade the sentimental emotion-stream of humanity to such an extent that all civilization would be encompassed by love, and that would be the realization of the brotherhood of man."



Caino

 

[Aimiel]

Snide childish comments like this do not lend any credibility to your 'position' on the matter, as one could as well question the authenticity of certain saying of Jesus in the canonical gospels, let alone accept some other sayings of Jesus in apocryphal writings as being 'true'.

One would only guarantee their being taken for a fool, by doing so; and you've already done so, by clinging to your false gods and the Urantia Book specifically, which clearly contradicts and pokes fun at The Holy Scriptures.

Your 'opinion' could be challenged by any other 'opinion', and if you want to include Aunt Tia, how bout we toss in your Aunt Maggie too?

Sorry, but it's Ur-ant-tia, not mine. Aunt Maggie believes God, as revealed in The Holy Scriptures.

Truth is found nowhere in the Urantia Book, but only half-truths, which equate to whole lies.

 

[Aimiel]

The Love that Jesus left us with is so often lost in the rigid ideologies and theological abstractions of Christianity.

Hogwash. The Love that Jesus gives Christians is what drives us to love those who are lost to be able to lead them out of their error. Your Urantia Book is lies. It is lies, disguised as 'deep truth.' It wasn't sent from above. It is designed to lead you away from Jesus, Who is Truth, not to Him.

"You cannot truly love your fellows by a mere act of the will. Love is only born of thoroughgoing understanding of your neighbor’s motives and sentiments. It is not so important to love all men today as it is that each day you learn to love one more human being. If each day or each week you achieve an understanding of one more of your fellows, and if this is the limit of your ability, then you are certainly socializing and truly spiritualizing your personality. Love is infectious, and when human devotion is intelligent and wise, love is more catching than hate. But only genuine and unselfish love is truly contagious. If each mortal could only become a focus of dynamic affection, this benign virus of love would soon pervade the sentimental emotion-stream of humanity to such an extent that all civilization would be encompassed by love, and that would be the realization of the brotherhood of man."

Bla bla bla. The Love of God is shed abroad in the heart of those who become Christian. He is Love. When He takes up residence in someone, as He does every believer, when they become Christian, they have The Very Love of God inside of them, and that is what changes them, not study or attempts to 'be' godly or even attempts to emulate Christ.

 

[blackbirdking]

blackbirdking,

You have good questions, you think instead of parrot.

The best way to answer this question, one which has Jesus referring to the scripture, is to actually ask another question. Is everything in the New York Times perfect? Is there a bias of the writer, possibility of inaccurate reporting from eyewitnesses? Editing of the stories? Political influence?

An event occurs, then it's retold, then the retelling is retold. Then so called "historians" write about those events hundreds, even thousands of years latter......but the events still occurred. So one is left to extrapolate facts and try to make sense of it all.

Another example, we can both agree that the civil war occurred in America, yet there are thousands of books written about that war. Are they all perfect?

There is only one underlying reason that religion uses the "word of God" label and that is the establishment of the churches authority, it's desire and need to control others.

The people who killed Jesus could find areas of the OT to justify his murder, were they right?

"Most of the so-called Messianic prophecies of the Old Testament were made to apply to Jesus long after his life had been lived on earth. For centuries the Hebrew prophets had proclaimed the coming of a deliverer, and these promises had been construed by successive generations as referring to a new Jewish ruler who would sit upon the throne of David and, by the reputed miraculous methods of Moses, proceed to establish the Jews in Palestine as a powerful nation, free from all foreign domination. Again, many figurative passages found throughout the Hebrew scriptures were subsequently misapplied to the life mission of Jesus. Many Old Testament sayings were so distorted as to appear to fit some episode of the Master’s earth life. Jesus himself onetime publicly denied any connection with the royal house of David. Even the passage, “a maiden shall bear a son,” was made to read, “a virgin shall bear a son.” This was also true of the many genealogies of both Joseph and Mary which were constructed subsequent to Michael’s career on earth. Many of these lineages contain much of the Master’s ancestry, but on the whole they are not genuine and may not be depended upon as factual. The early followers of Jesus all too often succumbed to the temptation to make all the olden prophetic utterances appear to find fulfillment in the life of their Lord and Master."
Caino

So then what relevance does the Bible have for me today? Since we can't accept it as truth, does it serve any purpose beyond the New York Times or the civil war books? Is there any way to know truth?

 

[freelight]

you'd think that celestial beings from distant planets would've been a little more concise than 2000+ pages

- well, theres a lot of knowledge to cover in the fields of history, cosmology, science, philosophy and religious values, - besides the revelators were confirming and augmenting these subjects in a comprehensive manner, plus adding lots more interesting stuff!

UB Websites


pj

 

[Aimiel]

Problem is, the things they've 'added' are clearly contradictory to and attempt to bring down the true revelations from The Living God, as revealed in His Holy Word.

 

[Caino]

So then what relevance does the Bible have for me today? Since we can't accept it as truth, does it serve any purpose beyond the New York Times or the civil war books? Is there any way to know truth?

I didn’t say that all the bible is not true, the bible was not written by historians, scholars or philosophers. It's part metaphysical, part history and part fiction (exaggeration). There are many beautiful truths in it. There were more but it was edited by latter generations of men.

The bible is "retrospective" it was written or rewritten long after the events depicted and for a Jewsih audience (at least the OT books)

Jesus:

"Many of these books were not written by the persons whose names they bear, but that in no way detracts from the value of the truths which they contain. If the story of Jonah should not be a fact, even if Jonah had never lived, still would the profound truth of this narrative, the love of God for Nineveh and the so-called heathen, be none the less precious in the eyes of all those who love their fellow men. The Scriptures are sacred because they present the thoughts and acts of men who were searching for God, and who in these writings left on record their highest concepts of righteousness, truth, and holiness. The Scriptures contain much that is true, very much, but in the light of your present teaching, you know that these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven, the loving God I have come to reveal to all the worlds."


The "spirit of truth" is the "conviction of truth". Let your heart be the guide as to living truth. The indwelling spirit will bear witness.



Caino

 

[Caino]

Jesus taught us to effect real change within as opposed to merely believing facts about the past or affirming a static belief in the existence of God, but to actually have a relationship with God.


"As you grow older in years and more experienced in the affairs of the kingdom, are you becoming more tactful in dealing with troublesome mortals and more tolerant in living with stubborn associates? Tact is the fulcrum of social leverage, and tolerance is the earmark of a great soul. If you possess these rare and charming gifts, as the days pass you will become more alert and expert in your worthy efforts to avoid all unnecessary social misunderstandings. Such wise souls are able to avoid much of the trouble which is certain to be the portion of all who suffer from lack of emotional adjustment, those who refuse to grow up, and those who refuse to grow old gracefully."


Caino

 

[freelight]

Truth a living dynamic......

Truth a living dynamic......

Problem is, the things they've 'added' are clearly contradictory to and attempt to bring down the true revelations from The Living God, as revealed in His Holy Word.

Not really. What do you know of the Papers? Have you honestly read them? The Papers speak for themselves Until you have honestly 'considered' their content, your 'opinion' is wanting - they cover deeper more vast dimensions than the Bible. The Bible does not contain the totality of truth, being limited to its own cultural context and times (plus the varying capacities of its authors).

Assuming the Bible is God's only revealed 'holy word' and that God or 'Universal Intelligence' has never shared anything else ( recognizing the inspired texts of other religious traditions and ongoing revelation) is short-sighted and illogical. The UB and many other modern-day revelations may confirm and augment some essential principles in the Bible, yet expand our horizons of knowledge consonant with the given time of the present (whenver these 'enhanacements' are granted). Truth is a living dynamic, ever unfolding itself, moment to moment.

"Physical facts are fairly uniform, but truth is a living and flexible factor in the philosophy of the universe. Evolving personalities are only partially wise and relatively true in their communications. They can be certain only as far as their personal experience extends. That which apparently may be wholly true in one place may be only relatively true in another segment of creation." - UB





pj

 

[Aimiel]

What do you know of the Papers?

As I've said, they're half-truths, and only contradict and attempt to discredit God's Holy Word.

Have you honestly read them?

Portions. Most of the stuff that has been posted here, and a small amount of other parts.

The Papers speak for themselves

Yes, they do. It's quite clear where they come from, and it isn't from above.

they cover deeper more vast dimensions than the Bible.

They present un-truths which contradict and make obsolete The Holy Scriptures, and so cannot be Truth.

The Bible does not contain the totality of truth, being limited to its own cultural context and times (plus the varying capacities of its authors).

Quite right, the totality not yet having been revealed. God still retains His Mystery. When it is finished, as He has declared through His holy prophets, we will know Him, and be like Him, because we'll see Him as He is. Until that day, we have been presented with His Revelations of Himself through His Word and His Presence (His Spirit, given to Christian believers).

Assuming the Bible is God's only revealed 'holy word' and that God or 'Universal Intelligence' has never shared anything else ( recognizing the inspired texts of other religious traditions and ongoing revelation) is short-sighted and illogical.

No, it's authoritative and logical, having been specifically stated by Jesus, when He said that He is The One and Only Way, The One and Only Truth and The One and Only Eternal Life.

The UB and many other modern-day revelations may confirm and augment some essential principles in the Bible, yet expand our horizons of knowledge consonant with the given time of the present (whenver these 'enhanacements' are granted).

The UB and other new age garbage only steer people away from The Truth and confuse them.

Truth is a living dynamic, ever unfolding itself, moment to moment.

No, Truth is constant: Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever.

Physical facts are fairly uniform, but truth is a living and flexible factor in the philosophy of the universe. Evolving personalities are only partially wise and relatively true in their communications. They can be certain only as far as their personal experience extends. That which apparently may be wholly true in one place may be only relatively true in another segment of creation." - UB

Sounds like the UB is contradicting The Word of God, confusing people (yourself for instance) and leading people down the wrong path, as usual. :yawn:

 

[freelight]

the ontology of Being

the ontology of Being

So then what relevance does the Bible have for me today?

Whatever you can derive from the Bible, by all means receive. However, the totality of truth is not contained in its limited cultural context and language-parameters - Truth as shared earlier is the Spirit-reality of God existing in its fullness, moment to moment. One's receptivity to the Spirit of truth...is what is essential.

Since we can't accept it as truth, does it serve any purpose beyond the New York Times or the civil war books?

The Bible and other inspired religious writings are vehicles for truths to be communicated relative to their context, therefore use them accordingly. If other writings serve to reveal, clarify and expand on truth why neglect or reject them?

Is there any way to know truth?

Absolutely,....right here and NOW. Truth is the unchanging reality underlying all phenomena, immanent and transcendent. We use the structural formats and conceptual references of our times and culture to access this God-Presence relating such to our experience. Consider these 'reference points' within their environmental context. What is 'God'? How can we know 'God'? One must discover the reality that is ever-present for himself, as that which is.


pj

 

[blackbirdking]

I didn’t say that all the bible is not true, the bible was not written by historians, scholars or philosophers. It's part metaphysical, part history and part fiction (exaggeration). There are many beautiful truths in it. There were more but it was edited by latter generations of men.

The bible is "retrospective" it was written or rewritten long after the events depicted and for a Jewsih audience (at least the OT books)


The "spirit of truth" is the "conviction of truth". Let your heart be the guide as to living truth. The indwelling spirit will bear witness.

Caino

Can I know which parts are true by means of the "spirit of truth", or do I need an interpreter; another physical being to intervene to guide me?

 

[Caino]

Can I know which parts are true by means of the "spirit of truth", or do I need an interpreter; another physical being to intervene to guide me?

Ask God.




C

 

[blackbirdking]

Whatever you can derive from the Bible, by all means receive. However, the totality of truth is not contained in its limited cultural context and language-parameters - Truth as shared earlier is the Spirit-reality of God existing in its fullness, moment to moment. One's receptivity to the Spirit of truth...is what is essential.

The Bible and other inspired religious writings are vehicles for truths to be communicated relative to their context, therefore use them accordingly. If other writings serve to reveal, clarify and expand on truth why neglect or reject them?

Absolutely,....right here and NOW. Truth is the unchanging reality underlying all phenomena, immanent and transcendent. We use the structural formats and conceptual references of our times and culture to access this God-Presence relating such to our experience. Consider these 'reference points' within their environmental context. What is 'God'? How can we know 'God'? One must discover the reality that is ever-present for himself, as that which is.

pj

Are you saying, that truth is what I percieve truth to be; And that what I percieve truth to be, is not necessarily what another being might percieve truth to be? My reality is not necessarily the same reality that everyone/thing has. Since "truth is the unchanging reality underlying all phenomena, immanent and transcendent", how do I know what changes? Is'nt it so that everything changes but change itself?

 

[blackbirdking]

Ask God.
C

So I ask God. Is God really somebody that hears me? How can I know he is answering me? Does he reveal the same truth to all of us? Will I be able to compare my truth to other "revealed truth" and have it contradict and still be truth? Or, is it only truth from God when it matches other revealed truth? It doesn't seem like asking God is really a viable method.
Maybe I don't get what you mean.

 

[freelight]

satori

satori

Are you saying, that truth is what I percieve truth to be; And that what I percieve truth to be, is not necessarily what another being might percieve truth to be? My reality is not necessarily the same reality that everyone/thing has. Since "truth is the unchanging reality underlying all phenomena, immanent and transcendent", how do I know what changes? Is'nt it so that everything changes but change itself?

"All finite knowledge and creature understanding are relative. Information and intelligence, gleaned from even high sources, is only relatively complete, locally accurate, and personally true. " -UB

While the Absolute Reality remains at the Heart of all,...all else is perceived within the relativity of perception and context, hence the varying levels and degrees of definity. There is ever what is unchanging, yet also the 'appearance' of change in the phenomenal worlds. You can obviously see what is changing by observation, but note that the Awareness that observes is 'seated' within an 'original consciousness' that does not undergo change, but is the pure 'seeing' of all that arises.

I often base and contextualize things from the viewpoint of Non-Duality (an Advaitic or Zen perspective)

If you would research a more comprehensive view of cosmic reality, see Deity and Reality.

What is most important or essential to existence?.....but existence itself. I Am. This is all that is. - all else is commentary, translation, interpretation.

"to be spiritually minded is life and peace" - we come to know this life and peace by abiding as consciousness, the pure pristine luminous awareness at the heart of all.


pj

 

[Caino]

So I ask God. Is God really somebody that hears me? How can I know he is answering me? Does he reveal the same truth to all of us? Will I be able to compare my truth to other "revealed truth" and have it contradict and still be truth? Or, is it only truth from God when it matches other revealed truth? It doesn't seem like asking God is really a viable method.
Maybe I don't get what you mean.

I don't think I'm going to have a satisfactory, boiler plate type of answer for you because it would be like trying to prove God to a non believer. God can't be proved, but he can be experienced.

God is a person to, when we try to standardize God then he becomes a crystallized theology. When we formalize God into creeds and rituals then God is no longer a living guide in our daily lives but simply the founder of our man made ritualistic philosophy.

Would a wise father give the same answer to a 5 year old that he would a 16 year old about the weightier things in life? No, but still he is the same Father. Whats appropriate for one epoch of time may not be for another epoch.

This link is to one of my most favorite sermons from Jesus in the UB. See if it tweaks your heart, does it "ring true"?


http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1407#U155_6_1

Colter

 

[JWStipple]

The UB is a bit "woo-woo" for my tastes. However, measured against other revelational religious texts, the picture it paints of God is a God I would love to exist...a God worthy of the name, the best that God represents.

Emotionally, I still wish it to be true...analytically, the UB, too, fails to cross the threshold of what I believe are reasonable, rational criteria for determining the truth or existence of anything else.

Darn it anyway. Sometimes I wish I could turn my critical thinking machine off.

 

[Caino]

The UB is a bit "woo-woo" for my tastes. However, measured against other revelational religious texts, the picture it paints of God is a God I would love to exist...a God worthy of the name, the best that God represents.

Emotionally, I still wish it to be true...analytically, the UB, too, fails to cross the threshold of what I believe are reasonable, rational criteria for determining the truth or existence of anything else.

Darn it anyway. Sometimes I wish I could turn my critical thinking machine off.

....smile, I hear ya

195.5.2 Truth often becomes confusing and even misleading when it is dismembered, segregated, isolated, and too much analyzed. Living truth teaches the truth seeker aright only when it is embraced in wholeness and as a living spiritual reality, not as a fact of material science or an inspiration of intervening art.


C

 

[buff]

....smile, I hear ya

195.5.2 Truth often becomes confusing and even misleading when it is dismembered, segregated, isolated, and too much analyzed. Living truth teaches the truth seeker aright only when it is embraced in wholeness and as a living spiritual reality, not as a fact of material science or an inspiration of intervening art.


C

Is truth tangible or is it something that we just know?