The Late Great Urantia Revelation
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Furchizedek
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Here's what Jesus really said:
153:3.2 One of the visiting Pharisees, mounting a lampstand, shouted out this question: "You tell us that you are the bread of life. How can you give us your flesh to eat or your blood to drink? What avail is your teaching if it cannot be carried out?" And Jesus answered this question, saying: "I did not teach you that my flesh is the bread of life nor that my blood is the water thereof. But I did say that my life in the flesh is a bestowal of the bread of heaven. The fact of the Word of God bestowed in the flesh and the phenomenon of the Son of Man subject to the will of God, constitute a reality of experience which is equivalent to the divine sustenance. You cannot eat my flesh nor can you drink my blood, but you can become one in spirit with me even as I am one in spirit with the Father. You can be nourished by the eternal word of God, which is indeed the bread of life, and which has been bestowed in the likeness of mortal flesh; and you can be watered in soul by the divine spirit, which is truly the water of life. The Father has sent me into the world to show how he desires to indwell and direct all men; and I have so lived this life in the flesh as to inspire all men likewise ever to seek to know and do the will of the indwelling heavenly Father."
Furchizedek
Aimiel
Well-known member
No, He REALLY didn't say this; but a demon did, trying to take the authority away from The Holy Bible.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Beyond your obsession with imaginary demons, the Gospel of John is not without its controversy, concerning its original author, dating and certain 'redactions' thru-out. It being the most spiritual gospel has within it subtle gnostic teachings, which were crafted to be anti-gnostic at some point in time, so it has very interesting elements
Gospel of John
pj
Furchizedek
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That's Paul's gospel about Jesus, it's nothing that Jesus ever taught, it's nothing that Jesus and the 12 real apostles ever preached and taught to the multitude as the "gospel," and yet we know that Jesus and the 12 real apostles DID preach the real gospel, Jesus' gospel, to the people:
"And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people." (Matthew 9:35)
"And it came to pass...that Jesus went throughout every city and village, preaching and showing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him..." (Luke 8:1) (Also see Matthew 4:23, Mark 1:14, and Luke 4:43.)
From these verses we can see that the gospel was something that Jesus actually preached and taught during his appearances before large crowds in many cities, and long before his death. Thus, the questions of who, when, and where the gospel comes from are answered. The gospel of the kingdom, the glad tidings, the good news, comes from Jesus, the Son of God.
AT NO TIME did Jesus and the 12 real apostles tell the people the gospel that Jesus was a "sacrifice" for their sins. The centerpiece of Christianity is something that Jesus and the real apostles never preached to the people.
Get out of your Pauline Cult and follow Jesus only. It's very liberating, the truth shall set you free. Don't be afraid.
Furchizedek
Aimiel
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Not only are demons NOT imaginary, since Jesus spoke to them, asked their names and cast them out of many people; but they're still around today, as we're well-aware, thanks to people like yourself.
That makes a lot of sense, if you're an anti-sense-type person.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Its your obessession with 'demons' that is comical, since you attribute so much to them. My reference in general indicates your 'assumption' of the celestial personalities being 'demons' that gave us the Papers which I referred to as 'imaginary'. That is your own biased opinion (further obscured by ignorance and preconceived belief ). A student of the Papers who understands their significance has another opinion....since truth and wisdom speaks for itself. - however one without an open sensible mind is not available to such wisdom.
Not sure why I took you off Ignore, as your antics and mentality havent changed any. Same religious ego pontificating the same. Nothing new. Readers here can research the papers and make their own decisions on their value, without you spouting about demons (imps of your own imagining) which is tiring.
pj
Aimiel
Well-known member
What's tiring is the same old tripe they try to pass off as truth being swallowed by the likes of yourself and others, most of whom are even more intelligent and as such should be more discerning. The subtlety of the enemy has never been more clear, making 'modern' man even believe that his minions don't even exist. What fascinates me about them is how someone who's filled with them, like yourself, can be so easily riled and put off by someone in whom The Holy Spirit resides. I've seen people feint, run away, get totally confused and even drop what's in their hand as if they'd seen a ghost. It's hilarious. Even more fascinating is the common thread that most every imaginary god or false religion carries is the refusal to accept the truth about The Blood of Jesus.
Furchizedek
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The question that was asked of you was: "When did Jesus say that he was a sacrifice?"
You replied with ransom verses.
A ransom is not a sacrifice. Also, the ransom idea is not mainstream Christianity, but rather is nowadays peculiar to the Jehovah's Witnesses. Are you one of them? Usually they are not as aggressive as you.
As far as what the "Old Testament" (The Hebrew Scriptures) fulfills, contact a Rabbi about that, it's their religious book. Ask a Rabbi what those verses mean. They're the experts on the "Old Testament."
"Ransom" from The Urantia Book, God's new revelation to Earth:
188:4.3 Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evildoing of his ancestors. Neither was the Master’s death on the cross a sacrifice which consisted in an effort to pay God a debt which the race of mankind had come to owe him.
188:4.8 When once you grasp the idea of God as a true and loving Father, the only concept which Jesus ever taught, you must forthwith, in all consistency, utterly abandon all those primitive notions about God as an offended monarch, a stern and all-powerful ruler whose chief delight is to detect his subjects in wrongdoing and to see that they are adequately punished, unless some being almost equal to himself should volunteer to suffer for them, to die as a substitute and in their stead. The whole idea of ransom and atonement is incompatible with the concept of God as it was taught and exemplified by Jesus of Nazareth. The infinite love of God is not secondary to anything in the divine nature.
188:4.13 This entire idea of the ransom of the atonement places salvation upon a plane of unreality; such a concept is purely philosophic. Human salvation is real; it is based on two realities which may be grasped by the creature’s faith and thereby become incorporated into individual human experience: the fact of the fatherhood of God and its correlated truth, the brotherhood of man. It is true, after all, that you are to be “forgiven your debts, even as you forgive your debtors.”
Furchizedek
Furchizedek
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And you know this, how?
Isn't it really just the case that, 'It's not what you believe, so it's false.' ?
There's no way it's from God because it's not what you believe. Right?
Just say it, that's the bottom line. You really don't have anything more than that, 'It's false because it's not what you believe.'
Furchizedek
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Lost Comet
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Too much sugar. :jump:
Its uncanny, really, has anyone ever noticed that when a self righteous Christian doesn't agree with something then they attribute your faith to demons and devils? Its as if they have more faith in the power of an imaginary Satan then Gods presence and love. The enemies of Jesus made the same closed minded accusation. These people are no different then those whose hearts and minds were sealed by hardened theology.
They are not reachable, Jesus advised that we not cast out pearls before them.
Caino
They are not reachable, Jesus advised that we not cast out pearls before them.
Caino
Charity
New member
Our subconscious minds ARE VERY COMPLEX, often struggling with the difference between reality an imag, the desire being so great that one soon .....into being.
To some the devil manifests Himself in the same "exact" way as God, then the brain which manefests one or both substances has certanly manifesting abilities, why not just keep the good force? there will be a desire of particular objects to exist, then following, manfested obligations.
The real evidence, Jesus, flesh an bone, Having a whole era Named an dedicated to his life AN living on earth, BC, BEFORE CHRIST. Obtained, beyond the bounds of reason and analysis.
charity
To some the devil manifests Himself in the same "exact" way as God, then the brain which manefests one or both substances has certanly manifesting abilities, why not just keep the good force? there will be a desire of particular objects to exist, then following, manfested obligations.
The real evidence, Jesus, flesh an bone, Having a whole era Named an dedicated to his life AN living on earth, BC, BEFORE CHRIST. Obtained, beyond the bounds of reason and analysis.
charity
Hello Charity,
Long time no see. You make a good point, one which I will use as a segway into another point.
Lets assume for a minute that there is a basis for the legend of the Devil, or Satan, or the "prince of this world" or Lucifer, who deceived the whole world. Lets consider that the UB is accurate when it explains that these were actually trusted administrators in Gods economy who fell into doubt (disbelief of a Father of all reality). Sort of like a trusted priest who falls away and abuses his trust with the young and innocent.
Taking into consideration our mortal state, our fears, superstitions and general ignorance of the constitution of the spiritual world, we can see how the stature of these fallen servants could become greatly elevated over time. Even to the stature of almost equal power with God in the minds of men.
In the past many people believed as Aimiel believes (and I think he's thoroughly sincere)......but that does not make it true. People can sincerely believe things about the world, about themselves that are not true yet they act on those false beliefs.
With that in mind, I think we do not fully appreciate Jesus' momentous words, words which were like rain over parched earth “Man is the son of God, not a child of the devil.”
Jesus was saying that the cabal of devils an demons had effectively been sustained by a fear based elusion of power, when they were just bogymen (real personalities with a doctrine of doubt) yet powerless, there came to be no truth in them.
Aimiel and other sincere people like him, still empower the fallen ones by fearing them, by granting them power which they do not have, by failing to recognize that they have been defeated in truth and in righteousness. Aimiel, without the least suspecting it, is a walking, talking advertisement for the delusion of the dark teachings, he helps keep their despicable memory alive by perpetuating the fear of them among faithers.
So Charity, you are absolutely right, a brilliant deduction:
48.7.4 2. Few persons live up to the faith which they really have. Unreasoned fear is a master intellectual fraud practiced upon the evolving mortal soul.
Caino
Long time no see. You make a good point, one which I will use as a segway into another point.
Lets assume for a minute that there is a basis for the legend of the Devil, or Satan, or the "prince of this world" or Lucifer, who deceived the whole world. Lets consider that the UB is accurate when it explains that these were actually trusted administrators in Gods economy who fell into doubt (disbelief of a Father of all reality). Sort of like a trusted priest who falls away and abuses his trust with the young and innocent.
Taking into consideration our mortal state, our fears, superstitions and general ignorance of the constitution of the spiritual world, we can see how the stature of these fallen servants could become greatly elevated over time. Even to the stature of almost equal power with God in the minds of men.
In the past many people believed as Aimiel believes (and I think he's thoroughly sincere)......but that does not make it true. People can sincerely believe things about the world, about themselves that are not true yet they act on those false beliefs.
With that in mind, I think we do not fully appreciate Jesus' momentous words, words which were like rain over parched earth “Man is the son of God, not a child of the devil.”
Jesus was saying that the cabal of devils an demons had effectively been sustained by a fear based elusion of power, when they were just bogymen (real personalities with a doctrine of doubt) yet powerless, there came to be no truth in them.
Aimiel and other sincere people like him, still empower the fallen ones by fearing them, by granting them power which they do not have, by failing to recognize that they have been defeated in truth and in righteousness. Aimiel, without the least suspecting it, is a walking, talking advertisement for the delusion of the dark teachings, he helps keep their despicable memory alive by perpetuating the fear of them among faithers.
So Charity, you are absolutely right, a brilliant deduction:
48.7.4 2. Few persons live up to the faith which they really have. Unreasoned fear is a master intellectual fraud practiced upon the evolving mortal soul.
Caino
Aimiel
Well-known member
Jesus said that His Blood would be the ransom for many, not the Jehovah's Witnesses. Their 'version' of Scripture wasn't written for almost 2,000 years after Christ's The sacrificial Lamb of God has given His Blood (His Life) as a ransom, to buy sinners back from Satan, who has authority over them due to their sins. That sacrifice, His Life in exchange for that of the believer, is the most precious thing there is. It is the only entrance into eternal life.
No, Jesus explained far more about the prophecies of Scripture than they understand. He's The One Who inspired every single word that's written in them.
Again, your Urantia Book demonstrates that it contradicts Truth. Scripture is clear on what condition that you, everyone who espouses this book and even the very 'angel' who inspired its writing:
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. -- Galatians 1:8
Aimiel
Well-known member
Satan has his greatest field day in the lives of those who believe he doesn't exist and those who believe that he is powerless. Jesus did break his authority, but only through His Power and His Authority over the enemy do we have the power and authority to countermand his works. Those who don't understand what they're talking about bring about their own destruction.
Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; -- 2 Peter 2:11-12
That’s a good example of the evolved doctrine of Satanic empowerment, it's a common ploy used to exploit the uneducated and fear ridden. It's an idea effectively conceived of by the fallen ones as they attempted to become "God of this world".
It's saying "have faith in Satan, if not you won't be saved".
There is no greater idiotic doctrine then that which teaches that Jesus defeated the fallen ones yet left them with the same power to mislead. It's a doctrine which, if followed to its absurd conclusion, has God creating the devil and using him, yet defeating him, but reusing him to work against himself. :duh:
Lets go to Jesus to demonstrate that Aimiel is teaching a doctrine of a "house divided" (a divided heaven). Jesus used common sense to illustrate that dualism is a false concept.
NIV
Jesus and Beelzebul
22 Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23 All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”
24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”
25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
The false evolved doctrine, perpetuated by confused Christians, of the existence of a divided kingdom in heaven, has already been discredited 2000 yeras ago. But all too often sincere people of faith take their religion as handed down to them by their chosen leaders instead of investigating for themselves. Manipulative, so called "holy men," exploit that ignorance and fear to control them. So, so true, by their fruits ye will know them.
C
Aimiel
Well-known member
I don't even know what you're saying. Where do you think that I have espoused a doctrine of a divided kingdom? Where am I trying to control anyone? It's the enemy who controls those who are deceived, who don't even recognize his existence, who say and do his will every time they speak. You really need to buy a clue as to who's pulling your strings. Christians don't have faith in Satan, they simply aren't ignorant of his operations. Those who choose ignorance are living in the darkest of all ages, and call it: enlightenment. The Urantia Book is a perfect example. The 'light' that is in those who follow it is darkness, and it is very great darkness.
blackbirdking
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