The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[journey]

Your misplaced 'concern' has been addressed here. This thread takes up a very small % of the total space and content of TOL. Knight can grant any thread 'immunity' if its appropriate and within the 'discussion-radius' of inspiring insightful dialogue, plus an opportunity to do 'Christian apologetics' with heterodoxcial religious views. In this case, the UB serves as an excellent 'practice-field' for such an endeavor,....after all....if truth has nothing to fear and ultimately stands by itself, on its own principle...then any misrepresentation or alternative different from 'truth' will only serves to glorify it.



pj

More baloney. That would open the door for Voodoo, witchcraft, and just about anything else you can come up with. Reminder - this is a Christian forum. We can get plenty of the right kind of apologetics experience with just plain unbelievers. By the way, Voodoo and witchcraft make much more sense than the urantia book, and with many more followers.

 

[Caino]

freelight,

You forgot that the urantia book is material promoting a false religion/cult. How it was ever allowed on a Christian forum is beyond me. You also forgot this is a Christian forum and the urantia book isn't Christian material.

What would happen if I started publishing the entire Holy Bible here on TOL? Keep in mind that I already know there are storage problems on TOL and a need to prune threads. No, I would not try to publish the entire Holy Bible here, even though it is the core of Christianity. If I had a vote on pruning threads, can you guess which one I would recommend first? If you guess 284 pages on the urantia book, you got it.

Correction: 291 pages now.

The Urantia Book is all about Christ, but it does cast some light on the truth about the evolution of the Hebrew books, the exaggerated history and Paul's religion about----> Jesus, not OF Jesus. That makes people uncomfortable in the same way Jesus made the Jews uncomfortable, they even sent "spies" to Jesus' sermons (threads) and tried all sorts of ways to entrap Jesus. Finally they tried to make Jesus go away by killing him (erasing his thread). But their problems with Jesus had only just begun!

* Christianity started as a small cult inside Judaism, they were persecuted everywhere for centuries!

The UB is not an enemy of the disciples of Jesus The Christ!

.....but, if in the coarse of this most recent revelation problems of the Christian religion are exposed, that's sect divided Christianity's problem, not Jesus. Jesus founded the "kingdom of heaven", Peter, Paul and his successors founded a substitute for the original "good news" gospel; a religion about Jesus. It's dying.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Peter, Paul and his successors founded a substitute for the original "good news" gospel; a religion about Jesus. It's dying.

The urantia, and ALL other 'false teachings' are not 'dying' they are
already of the dead! The 'true' Gospel is, God's Grace offered to
mankind through the death and resurrection of Christ, and received
by faith!

It's 'your' urantia book and other's like it that offer only death and
judgment! Why, because they are a fictionalized addition to the ONLY
true, Word of God, which was inspired by God! There's LIFE offered
in the Scriptures, there's death offered by 'false doctrine!'

You and your ilk have believed a lie, and as a consequence will
be judged!

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

The Urantia Book is all about Christ, but it does cast some light on the truth about the evolution of the Hebrew books, the exaggerated history and Paul's religion about----> Jesus, not OF Jesus. That makes people uncomfortable in the same way Jesus made the Jews uncomfortable, they even sent "spies" to Jesus' sermons (threads) and tried all sorts of ways to entrap Jesus. Finally they tried to make Jesus go away by killing him (erasing his thread). But their problems with Jesus had only just begun!

* Christianity started as a small cult inside Judaism, they were persecuted everywhere for centuries!

The UB is not an enemy of the disciples of Jesus The Christ!

.....but, if in the coarse of this most recent revelation problems of the Christian religion are exposed, that's sect divided Christianity's problem, not Jesus. Jesus founded the "kingdom of heaven", Peter, Paul and his successors founded a substitute for the original "good news" gospel; a religion about Jesus. It's dying.

Substantiate and prove the veracity of the Urantia Book in any canonical sense.

• Validate the origins and authorship.

• Go through the steps to demonstrate usage among an established set of geographical groups with historcial validity.

• Show all the many copies amongst such groups, the distrubution and readership.

• Demonstrate an acceptance and adherance by some type of authority figures and a series of body of believers.

Demonstrate the basics of canonicity for validity and veracity. And show us paralleling historical accounts of a good portion of all that is different from other historical holy texts.

Build the case from a textual critcism standpoint.

Do something besides regurge the UB while declaring and asserting the content alone is sufficient, and declaring and asserting presumed historicity FROM that content.

ANYONE or group of anyones could have written such a work. Do you have copious historical support for any of the assertions from the content besides the content itself?

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

The two separated as unequal (by traditions etc..) has been the problem, which is played out is us as we deal with the two wolves within, both needing fed at the expense of the other, both come together as one when we realize good and evil are just props that teach both sides by extremes until the lesson is learned, neither needs abolished in the end.:carryon:

Blessings, Zeke.

Ah, yes. The alleged "two wolves within".

This is one of the few central underlying fallacies of all religion, including the vast majority of mainline Christian understanding with professing believers doing nothing putting new wine in old wine skins without recognizing it.

The problem here, if this was your impression while among the sectarian error of the denominationalism, is that you never actually had faith. It's an epidemic, and that degree of your assessment of criticism of widespread Christianity is valid and correct.

This is Dualism. Nothing more or less or else.

 

[jeremysdemo]

I did??

Yep, you asked my how I would apply the rules in in authority.

you said, "I can see that"

sorry if a mistook that for agreeing if it was not, generally when someone see's something, it's the light! lol

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

The immortal Source would be pictured (by carnel man or cain) as being the Astrological effect of the age being lived through, Saturn being the dominant force of the passing one that held dominion over the minds of man, enter the old testament Male God of war and dominance.

The Father figure being the perceived creator while the Mother walk obediently behind was part of the programming that perverted the stage being acted on, but now the Equality of both aspect of the Source will be seen as being just that Equal in the minds of the new man, where they walk side by side and bring heaven down to earth, us, well we could be else where when the twinkle happens.

Okay, you're whacked. This is all part of the thesis/antithesis/synthesis as a facet of the earthly regime. You're not awake yet.

Sigh. I was actually thinking you might be and just missing the key substance.

This isn't the rabbit hole. It's the mole hole. You just took a red-coated blue pill.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

than neither can you charge me with that for merely speaking of it or participating in the thread, you should probably repent of that nonsense.

I haven't "charged" you for participating in the thread. I owned you and all you posted. You may continue at your discretion, of course. Nobody here is your mommy to stop you from that.

It wasn't about participation, it was about content. Yours got drilled by truth, even if you can't recognize it.

If anything is true within the UT is should hold up to the same scrutiny Jesus put their law under, if not it is easy enough to point out inconsistencies and errors in the literature with that which is in Torah.

Babbling.

I thought I might mention you have no right to judge or accuse me because you know not what is in my heart but I got a feeling that will fall on deaf ears by what Jesus said.

I didn't judge or accuse you. I let your own words condemn you. I did nothing except affirm what came from your own mouth (pen, keyboard).

You said we weren't of the same spirit. I'm of the Spirit of God, given since Pentecost. You indicated you're not of that spirit. I'm of the Spirit of Christ. All other spirits are antichrist.

This isn't rocket surgery to see you condemned yourself with your own words and I just accepted those words. But you impugn me as judging and accusing.

Hmmm.... I wonder if this is simple enough for you to see.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I find these odd questions to ask someone you already accused of having the spirit if the anti-Christ.

For the third (or more) time... I haven't accused you. Your own words were that we were not of the same spirit. I'm of the Spirit of Christ. That means you're of the spirit of antichrist. It was your own words that accused you. Now you want to blame someone else. Typcial.

Accuse now, ask questions later is not a passage I am able to find in my Bible, perhaps you in all your professed knowledge could find it for me.

See above. No need. You did the accusing. With your words. Why posture and blame others?

I think rather than throwing some Greek words around to try and impress everyone with worldly knowledge

You can't evaluate what I've done or the kind of knowledge any better than you can realize you accused your own self rather than me doing so. This further assessment is invalid presumption and assertion.

you would do better to lead by example, that's what Jesus did and we are urged afterall by his testimony to follow him, Matthew 10:38.

Jesus did exactly what I'm doing. In fact, he minced no words when calling vipers a brood of vipers. I haven't even done that. I've just allowed your own words to condemn you, and from passages you even quoted about one's own words condemning them.

You accused yourself. But blaming someone else in blindness is always easier for most.

stuff like that is why I said we are not of like spirit.

And there you have it. Again.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I don't mean to disrespect the thread topic or OP, but I just have one more thing to add in response to P and I am 'done' as he says:

I'm glad you brought that up actually,

I suppose Jesus was also exposing some great evil in extra biblical writings when he used the title or definite article Son of Man for himself in the NT Matthew 16:13, found in Enoch's book of parables, and John as well John 5:27.

Jesus said the Son of mans suffering was something that was written of him Mark 9:12, yet that is not written about the son of man in the OT, but is found in Maccabees, predating Jesus by at least 100 years.

we can add this to the fact that the term is absent from the Pauline corpus...to definitely conclude Jesus was in no way validating the sayings outside the bible of the time but must have been in fact exposing some great evil, puts a whole new perspective to the gospels....so much more hidden meanings to discover now....

be careful we don't promote anything evil in this discussion about what Jesus said, the terms he used, etc...

Oh good grief. Sigh.

Somebody needs to learn about appropriately dealing with peripheral writings that are para-biblical or extra-biblical to canon, and on a gradient of veracity.

You simply have no clue about anything relative to textual criticism and textual tradition, etc.

The Book of Enoch is, and always has been, Ethiopian Canon. Maccabees is Deutero-Canonical. You have no idea how to assess any of them or others relative to canonicity.

It isn't an on-off lightswitch dichotomy of either-or. But it isn't subjective as a free-for-all. It's a disciplined field of study that you haven't undertaken. But you sure have foundational beliefs and opinions about it all; and you've made adamant assertions and assessments about it all.

Your (and many others') puffed up gnosis knows no bounds. It isn't love, because love isn't puffed up and abounds in epignosis.

So your feigned love (clearly evidenced by the absence of abounding epignosis) is impotent, invalid, and irrelevant; especially as you play the victim of accusation that was actually your own words.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Scrolling back, I see I missed this...

Well I have no peers,

Sure you do. And you've aligned in some with many others by gradient of some sort. Silly evasion and avoidance.

and I don't read the scripture as historic fact, and distrust most the historical records about a lot of past historical claims,

Very doubtful, and almost impossible. It's all rhema and you've heard it to some degree. You don't understand the mechanics, so you don't even know.

(including your special brand of theological KNOWING cult)

Nice try. It isn't about knowing. But you don't "know" that. LOL.

the allegories presented in them teach far more spiritually than any literal theology based spiritualism that debases the liberty of the spirit!

It's not a dichotomy. And you don't and can't know the difference between spirit and soul to distinguish them. You do and will presume you do. But you don't. And you can't.

and makes man a worthless sinner that needs a human sacrifice to be saved "BS".

It has nothing to do with a "human sacrifice". Sinners aren't worthless, and you have no idea what hamartia (sin) is. Neither does 98% of the churches at large and their constituency.

It's all about knowing thy self and dealing with that temple and being at peace there, and your way isn't mine get over it.

Nothing to get over. You're still not awake, and trapped in one bastion of the delusion. Just like most professing Christians.

No converts notches on the KNOWING gun must be frustrating.

I have no such "gun", and I can't and don't convert anyone.

I don't think you mean to be a parasitical demeaning vampire who feeds on this kind of energy but you are.

Incorrect. You're still in slumber. It's just a different sub-cognitive state driving it all for your false reality.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Yep, you asked my how I would apply the rules in in authority.

you said, "I can see that"

sorry if a mistook that for agreeing if it was not, generally when someone see's something, it's the light! lol

That means, I saw your point! In other words, I understood
what you were saying!

 

[jeremysdemo]

You said we weren't of the same spirit. I'm of the Spirit of God,

you've got yourself convinced, that's about it here.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Oh good grief. Sigh.

Somebody needs to learn about appropriately dealing with peripheral writings that are para-biblical or extra-biblical to canon, and on a gradient of veracity.

You simply have no clue about anything relative to textual criticism and textual tradition, etc.

The Book of Enoch is, and always has been, Ethiopian Canon. Maccabees is Deutero-Canonical. You have no idea how to assess any of them or others relative to canonicity.

It isn't an on-off lightswitch dichotomy of either-or. But it isn't subjective as a free-for-all. It's a disciplined field of study that you haven't undertaken. But you sure have foundational beliefs and opinions about it all; and you've made adamant assertions and assessments about it all.

Your (and many others') puffed up gnosis knows no bounds. It isn't love, because love isn't puffed up and abounds in epignosis.

So your feigned love (clearly evidenced by the absence of abounding epignosis) is impotent, invalid, and irrelevant; especially as you play the victim of accusation that was actually your own words.

I think it would be more fruitful if you just stuck to the subject/ questions at hand rather than going off on your tangents about your opinions of people.

for all the knowledge you claim to have, and claim others do not on these topics you have shared NOTHING of any merit on them as of yet.

I think I made some valid points on how easily your prior assertions fall short of being correct across the board with references to extra-biblical text or traditions by Jesus not all being used to expose evil in them, I'm sure others will be able to pick up on that and we can continue from there.

For that I do want to thank you. :carryon:

 

[jeremysdemo]

Jesus did exactly what I'm doing. In fact, he minced no words when calling vipers a brood of vipers. I haven't even done that. I've just allowed your own words to condemn you, and from passages you even quoted about one's own words condemning them.

well it's a good thing you are so much like Jesus than, it justifies a lot of things you do here in your mind I'm sure.

well you tried to force your will on me, by trying to say You're done here. to me.

you have no authority over me, not here, not anywhere Matthew 23:9, that is why I said we are not of like spirit, Gods spirit is not like that, it's patient, kind, etc, tho you at least admitted you did not recognize those sayings when I posted them. :think:

I suspect part of that was not true, and you were indeed familiar with the passages being spoken of without the need for 'Greek words' to try and make yourself look scholarly here, tho there was no need to respond to each one as if they all needed to be, they weren't meant to be individual posits, just a larger context that opposes one man trying to tell another man something he has no right to.

if you meant to say something else, like we were done with the conversation, for whatever reason, then you should have chosen your words more wisely, in that case I would have to apologize for misunderstanding you and making such a statement about our spirits based out of ignorance of what you were trying to convey.

 

[jeremysdemo]

You simply have no clue about anything relative to textual criticism and textual tradition, etc.

The Book of Enoch is, and always has been, Ethiopian Canon. Maccabees is Deutero-Canonical. You have no idea how to assess any of them or others relative to canonicity.

It isn't an on-off lightswitch dichotomy of either-or. But it isn't subjective as a free-for-all. It's a disciplined field of study that you haven't undertaken. But you sure have foundational beliefs and opinions about it all; and you've made adamant assertions and assessments about it all.

actually no I have not, certainly not here in this thread, those statements were made in a sarcastic mocking jest to show the absurdity of one of your prior postures. (not mocking you personally but the posit)

it wasn't meant to be taken as any assertion on my own part, I'm sure people who are actually taking the time and effort to follow the discussion are aware of that.

I doubt you've taken the time to read all my post in the last 8 years to make any edifying statements about the disciple put forth in my studies, let alone what else I discuss with pastors, elders and other brethren in bible studies and seminars around the U.S.

you're far too busy telling everyone what you think their inadequacies are, and your scholarly superiority, after first meeting them to really get to know anyone or have any ability for your words to be taken with any degree of seriousness they may deserve, at least that's the impression I get from meeting you.

I think your post could have some merit and bear good fruit if they stuck to the actual subjects and points being made rather than filling them with obfuscation and diatribe, IMHO.

 

[jeremysdemo]

That means, I saw your point! In other words, I understood
what you were saying!

so you don't agree rules should be enforced unilaterally and doing otherwise gives a bad witness to the lost? per 1 Peter 2:12

you just saw what I was saying, but disagreed, or are completely indifferent? :think:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

so you don't agree rules should be enforced unilaterally and doing otherwise gives a bad witness to the lost? per 1 Peter 2:12

you just saw what I was saying, but disagreed, or are completely indifferent? :think:

I'll leave that up to you to decide!

 

[jeremysdemo]

I'll leave that up to you to decide!

well you already said you did not mean to say you agree.

there are only two other options left after that.

disagree, indifferent. :think:

Revelation 3:16
So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

I think I'd be one way definitively or the other considering His word on the matter....

testify!

 

[freelight]

the Kingdom of heaven open to all.......

the Kingdom of heaven open to all.......

More baloney. That would open the door for Voodoo, witchcraft, and just about anything else you can come up with. Reminder - this is a Christian forum. We can get plenty of the right kind of apologetics experience with just plain unbelievers. By the way, Voodoo and witchcraft make much more sense than the urantia book, and with many more followers.

You are new here and still have a few clues to buy. Your statement is a sheer display of ignorance, since the teaching of Jesus espoused in great detail in Part 4 is pure in its principles, morals and ethics concerning the kingdom of God and the real practice of 'true religion' itself....agreeing with the gospel records and adding more (enhancements/corrections) from the perspective of this particular commission.

Its different views on particular doctrinal points are just like what differs between denominations within Christendom,...there is a variety of 'interpretations'. Voodoo and witchcraft are far from the Judeo-Christian ethics and principles expounded in the papers, which goes to show you are ignorant of the content. With that, you have ignorance and assumptions, biased heavily by your religious belief-system.

Show where Jesus teaches anything remotely close to 'voodoo' and 'witchcraft' in Part 4 and you might have some 'leverage' there in your 'comparison-example'. We'll be waiting. The gospel of the kingdom is shared in its purity, of loving service to others thru the regenerating power of the Spirit who reveals all souls to be children of God, and likewise God being their Spirit-Father ('sonship' and 'Fatherhood' are simultaneously realized in the Spirit). The Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man is the underlying truth lived and revealed by the teaching-example of Jesus.

The Kingdom of Heaven



pj