Excuse me but, your particular "reality" is so small it could
throw a saddle on an amoeba, and ride it into the sunset!
The Late Great Urantia Revelation
- Thread starter Caino
- Start date
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Excuse me but, your particular "reality" is so small it could
throw a saddle on an amoeba, and ride it into the sunset!
No offence intended FL! However, you have to admit,
you seem to be sitting on the proverbial fence, and
unwilling to choose where to plant your feet?
you seem to be sitting on the proverbial fence, and
unwilling to choose where to plant your feet?
Aimiel
Well-known member
He simply doesn't understand that a crafty enemy who has had over 6,000 years to practice fooling humans has gotten even more subtle than he was when he told the first lie to Adam and Eve. Actually, we aren't told anything about it in Scripture, for good reasons I'm sure, but he probably told a HUGE whopper of a lie to fool a large portion of God's angels and cause them to fall from grace when they committed high treason against God. The best lie he's come up with so far: "Satan does not exist," is being touted by many false religions, most all of which freelight has bought into.
Sometimes it amazes me how much of Heaven or hell a single individual can cause to enter into so many lives that they touch. I've seen people who live a life of charity, only doing for others who have need and then there's people who're deceived by the enemy who're lining people up at hell's gates and nearly pushing them into the pit. It would be so sad if I didn't know the end of things:
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: and they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
We just have to let him continue to be filthy with his filthy Urantia papers and other un-holy nonsense.
Sometimes it amazes me how much of Heaven or hell a single individual can cause to enter into so many lives that they touch. I've seen people who live a life of charity, only doing for others who have need and then there's people who're deceived by the enemy who're lining people up at hell's gates and nearly pushing them into the pit. It would be so sad if I didn't know the end of things:
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: and they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
We just have to let him continue to be filthy with his filthy Urantia papers and other un-holy nonsense.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Paper 8 - The Infinite Spirit
Paper 8 - The Infinite Spirit
~*~*~
Continuing audio-video series from last paper here, Paper 8 is on the 'Infinite Spirit' -
This particular series will continue up to the 12th paper on 'The Universe of universes' (index).
(The UB acknowledges and expands upon the 3 divine personalities within the Paradise Trinity which is recognized within traditional-orthodox Christianity, but much more expanded on within the greater universal hierarchy and from the cosmic knowledge of the revelators. Similarities, differences and comparisons can be discussed after reading(hearing) the papers on the Infinite Spirit and the Paradise Trinity, which the following 2 papers will include and complete)
pj
Paper 8 - The Infinite Spirit
~*~*~
Continuing audio-video series from last paper here, Paper 8 is on the 'Infinite Spirit' -
| Paper 8 - The Infinite Spirit | |
This particular series will continue up to the 12th paper on 'The Universe of universes' (index).
(The UB acknowledges and expands upon the 3 divine personalities within the Paradise Trinity which is recognized within traditional-orthodox Christianity, but much more expanded on within the greater universal hierarchy and from the cosmic knowledge of the revelators. Similarities, differences and comparisons can be discussed after reading(hearing) the papers on the Infinite Spirit and the Paradise Trinity, which the following 2 papers will include and complete)
pj
And, yet more of the "urantia comic book" installment! Thanks for
your continued presentation of junk, nobody really needs to hear
about!
Even though the urantia papers are a wonderful piece of
fiction, we must keep in mind that, its origins lie within
the far-fetched imagination of certain individuals! Those
who find themselves forsaking all logic and reason in order to
Perpetrate, one outrageous hoax! Then, they must hope
that certain "naive" types, will invest their hopes and faith
in, what is obviously a tanker full of bunk! L.Ron Hubbard
was such an author! Just to mention one of those types!
fiction, we must keep in mind that, its origins lie within
the far-fetched imagination of certain individuals! Those
who find themselves forsaking all logic and reason in order to
Perpetrate, one outrageous hoax! Then, they must hope
that certain "naive" types, will invest their hopes and faith
in, what is obviously a tanker full of bunk! L.Ron Hubbard
was such an author! Just to mention one of those types!
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
positive currents................
positive currents................
That is fine journey,....the infinite always invites us to the path of ever expanding consciousness, progressive revelation and new discovery.
I should be so honored to be so 'awarded'
May all go well,
pj
positive currents................
That is fine journey,....the infinite always invites us to the path of ever expanding consciousness, progressive revelation and new discovery.
I should be so honored to be so 'awarded'
May all go well,
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
constant consideration and research........
constant consideration and research........
Seems we're stuck on 'repeat'. Having not read the papers yourselves, your 'testimony' is unsubstantial, since the same religious principles, ethics, meanings and values found in your more conservative religious belief-system are also expounded on in the papers, to even greater extensions and profundity. Remember Jesus says to keep asking, seeking and knocking...its a continual gesture of 'learning', being 'open' to the Infinite (Life is ever progressive, growing, transforming, evolving).
We further have this wonderful saying attributed to Jesus from the Gospel of Thomas -
My commentary on this is here.
In-joy,
pj
constant consideration and research........
Seems we're stuck on 'repeat'. Having not read the papers yourselves, your 'testimony' is unsubstantial, since the same religious principles, ethics, meanings and values found in your more conservative religious belief-system are also expounded on in the papers, to even greater extensions and profundity. Remember Jesus says to keep asking, seeking and knocking...its a continual gesture of 'learning', being 'open' to the Infinite (Life is ever progressive, growing, transforming, evolving).
We further have this wonderful saying attributed to Jesus from the Gospel of Thomas -
My commentary on this is here.
In-joy,
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Its a beautiful day...............
Its a beautiful day...............
Remember to judge a 'book' by its 'contents', not its false or misrepresented 'cover' ('cover' here includes a mischaracterization, mis-information, pre-conceived judgment of something, a false image of). One can find value, insight, meaning in any religious book or collection of books, as well as less than useful or obsolete material,....its up to each to discover things for themselves.
You're always free to leave the thread, or actually educate yourself about the subject(s) and engage in an actual 'creative dialogue'. What you post shows what your are capable of thus far. That could change if you decide to try a different approach to the discussion, if you can manage that.
pj
Its a beautiful day...............
Remember to judge a 'book' by its 'contents', not its false or misrepresented 'cover' ('cover' here includes a mischaracterization, mis-information, pre-conceived judgment of something, a false image of). One can find value, insight, meaning in any religious book or collection of books, as well as less than useful or obsolete material,....its up to each to discover things for themselves.
You're always free to leave the thread, or actually educate yourself about the subject(s) and engage in an actual 'creative dialogue'. What you post shows what your are capable of thus far. That could change if you decide to try a different approach to the discussion, if you can manage that.
pj
Interesting:
(592.5) 52:2.12 "It is neither tenderness nor altruism to bestow futile sympathy upon degenerated human beings, unsalvable abnormal and inferior mortals. There exist on even the most normal of the evolutionary worlds sufficient differences between individuals and between numerous social groups to provide for the full exercise of all those noble traits of altruistic sentiment and unselfish mortal ministry without perpetuating the socially unfit and the morally degenerate strains of evolving humanity. There is abundant opportunity for the exercise of tolerance and the function of altruism in behalf of those unfortunate and needy individuals who have not irretrievably lost their moral heritage and forever destroyed their spiritual birthright."
(592.5) 52:2.12 "It is neither tenderness nor altruism to bestow futile sympathy upon degenerated human beings, unsalvable abnormal and inferior mortals. There exist on even the most normal of the evolutionary worlds sufficient differences between individuals and between numerous social groups to provide for the full exercise of all those noble traits of altruistic sentiment and unselfish mortal ministry without perpetuating the socially unfit and the morally degenerate strains of evolving humanity. There is abundant opportunity for the exercise of tolerance and the function of altruism in behalf of those unfortunate and needy individuals who have not irretrievably lost their moral heritage and forever destroyed their spiritual birthright."
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Eugenics
Eugenics
Yes, the above is from a paragraph on the evolutionary stage of the Post Planetary Prince Man, in Paper 52 here, speaking on those racial strains that are retarded as far as intellectual/spiritual advancement or potential is concerned. The issue of 'eugenics' is expounded on in the UB, although I haven't taken too great an interest in it, although it would seem logical that a purification and evolution of Man would include his physical, mental and spiritual vehicles, however the material part of man (his DNA-strains and their chemical components) and its inter-action with mind and spirit affect this 'evolution'.
The above passage may sound somewhat harsh, as in undergoing a process to eliminate unwanted strains or retarded individuals who are spiritually retarded or do not have the apititude or capacity to progress or evolve,...but here the question is who determines such, and how is such a racial purification program to be carried out? Perhaps Caino can share his thoughts and UB passages on this particular subject (eugenics).
This dives into the interesting subject of organic and spiritual DNA, since the two cannot be wholly separated as both are 'involved' in the progress of man's evolutionary journey, since material 'substance' and 'form' reflects the reality of the 'ethereal' and 'incorporeal', there being a 'correspondence' with the 'invisible' and 'visible'.
pj
Eugenics
Yes, the above is from a paragraph on the evolutionary stage of the Post Planetary Prince Man, in Paper 52 here, speaking on those racial strains that are retarded as far as intellectual/spiritual advancement or potential is concerned. The issue of 'eugenics' is expounded on in the UB, although I haven't taken too great an interest in it, although it would seem logical that a purification and evolution of Man would include his physical, mental and spiritual vehicles, however the material part of man (his DNA-strains and their chemical components) and its inter-action with mind and spirit affect this 'evolution'.
The above passage may sound somewhat harsh, as in undergoing a process to eliminate unwanted strains or retarded individuals who are spiritually retarded or do not have the apititude or capacity to progress or evolve,...but here the question is who determines such, and how is such a racial purification program to be carried out? Perhaps Caino can share his thoughts and UB passages on this particular subject (eugenics).
This dives into the interesting subject of organic and spiritual DNA, since the two cannot be wholly separated as both are 'involved' in the progress of man's evolutionary journey, since material 'substance' and 'form' reflects the reality of the 'ethereal' and 'incorporeal', there being a 'correspondence' with the 'invisible' and 'visible'.
pj
I haven't read the 'Book of Mormon' either! Enough said!
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
There's always more than you think.......
There's always more than you think.......
Which renders you 'unqualified' to make a more informed analysis of them.
The UB cannot be compared to the BoM, since the former is of a greater, more comprehensive, complex and composite revelation of epochal significance (over 2,000 pages)...while the BoM is a more particular historical record of Israelites landing in the Americas and their visitation by Jesus after his resurrection ( a mere 531 pages). They are quite different in content & scope, although religiously both are based in the common theological knowledge and controversies of doctrine from the time of their writing, expanding thereon.
pj
There's always more than you think.......
Which renders you 'unqualified' to make a more informed analysis of them.
The UB cannot be compared to the BoM, since the former is of a greater, more comprehensive, complex and composite revelation of epochal significance (over 2,000 pages)...while the BoM is a more particular historical record of Israelites landing in the Americas and their visitation by Jesus after his resurrection ( a mere 531 pages). They are quite different in content & scope, although religiously both are based in the common theological knowledge and controversies of doctrine from the time of their writing, expanding thereon.
pj
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These are very offensive and frankly frightening teachings for a religious movement in light of the destruction of the eugenic ideology of the Germans. This Cano person is a dangerous subversive and none too bright to advance these ideas that refute the long standing human rights principle that all men are created equal.
Web pages that are critical of Cano's movement list other areas about how war was good to kill off abnormal people.
(785.7) 70:2.2 The constant necessity for national defense creates many new and advanced social adjustments. Society, today, enjoys the benefit of a long list of useful innovations which were at first wholly military and is even indebted to war for the dance, one of the early forms of which was a military drill.
(785.8) 70:2.3 War has had a social value to past civilizations because it:
(785.9) 70:2.4 1. Imposed discipline, enforced co-operation.
(785.10) 70:2.5 2. Put a premium on fortitude and courage.
(785.11) 70:2.6 3. Fostered and solidified nationalism.
(785.12) 70:2.7 4. Destroyed weak and unfit peoples.
(785.13) 70:2.8 5. Dissolved the illusion of primitive equality and selectively stratified society.
(785.14) 70:2.9 War has had a certain evolutionary and selective value, but like slavery, it must sometime be abandoned as civilization slowly advances. Olden wars promoted travel and cultural intercourse; these ends are now better served by modern methods of transport and communication. Olden wars strengthened nations, but modern struggles disrupt civilized culture. Ancient warfare resulted in the decimation of inferior peoples; the net result of modern conflict is the selective destruction of the best human stocks. Early wars promoted organization and efficiency, but these have now become the aims of modern industry. During past ages war was a social ferment which pushed civilization forward; this result is now better attained by ambition and invention. Ancient warfare supported the concept of a God of battles, but modern man has been told that God is love. War has served many valuable purposes in the past, it has been an indispensable scaffolding in the building of civilization, but it is rapidly becoming culturally bankrupt — incapable of producing dividends of social gain in any way commensurate with the terrible losses attendant upon its invocation.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
What the UB really teaches......
What the UB really teaches......
First off I've noticed you've neglected to comment on the sections of the UB concerning the actual theology of the UB which we've been covering thru this entire thread (with ample dialogue and resources for research), and instead have chosen to 'emphasize' a minute section on the subject of war, mischaracterizing it at that. I would challenge you to actually read the entire paper 70 on The Evolution of Human Government so you can actually understand the article "in context". Also I've yellow highlighted your chosen text above to show that its a description of the social value of wars (the potential affects of what 'past' wars or any war for that matter has on society and its social development), and that peace is the civilized and preferable way to go, except that 'war' becomes a teaching-tool for creating new methods of diplomacy to wage 'peaceful-relations'.
Lets include the rest of this section of Paper 70.2 that you quote from -
Properly reading this ought to clarify its historical explanation of 'wars' relative to human progress and learning, while the ideal of civilized and peaceful relations are heralded as the goal of society as it advances towards the actual living out of the 'Brotherhood of Man' via kingdom principles.
Nowhere does the Universal Father (the true God revealed in the UB) command or endorse wars or genocide, but the God of the OT in the Bible DOES JUST THAT - Genocide in the Bible. So,...your criticism hardly compares to passages where 'God' is commanding the wholesale slaughter of peoples in the book you hold as 'holy'. At best you could criticize the UB's attitude on the subject of eugenics within the evolutionary process and spiritual progression of man, how that some inferior, retarded or unsalvagable persons or peoples eventually have to 'die off' (thru various means), but the 'effect' and 'goal' of these advancements or 'adjustements' is always towards man's own progress and perfection. You have to look at the bigger picture and 'context' of things. The story of the flood, to eradicate evil and fallen man and Nephilim (hybrid beings between angels and men) was 'God' eradicating and cleansing the earth. So your own 'God' apparently has his own system of 'eugenics' if you will.
Finally, if you want to know Jesus teachings about war and peace, his gospel of the kingdom,....read Part 4. There you will find no blood-thirsty 'God' or campaign for genocide, but only the truth and peace loving gospel of the kingdom of heaven, centered in the truth of the 'Fatherhood of God & Brotherhood of Man'. Nowhere does the Unviersal Father or Jesus (Christ Michael) command genocide or demand blood for anything, although man's own carnal and animal nature will naturally tend towards war and conflict UNTIL he evolves and spiritually progresses to a place where WAR can be replaced with ethics and principles that make for real peace and harmonious relations among his fellow man. This is what the UB teaches, and holds the ultimate vision for, when this planet is established in Light and Life, which is the New Era or 'New Earth' state.
A synopsis of the UB's teaching on peace here.
pj
What the UB really teaches......
First off I've noticed you've neglected to comment on the sections of the UB concerning the actual theology of the UB which we've been covering thru this entire thread (with ample dialogue and resources for research), and instead have chosen to 'emphasize' a minute section on the subject of war, mischaracterizing it at that. I would challenge you to actually read the entire paper 70 on The Evolution of Human Government so you can actually understand the article "in context". Also I've yellow highlighted your chosen text above to show that its a description of the social value of wars (the potential affects of what 'past' wars or any war for that matter has on society and its social development), and that peace is the civilized and preferable way to go, except that 'war' becomes a teaching-tool for creating new methods of diplomacy to wage 'peaceful-relations'.
Lets include the rest of this section of Paper 70.2 that you quote from -
Properly reading this ought to clarify its historical explanation of 'wars' relative to human progress and learning, while the ideal of civilized and peaceful relations are heralded as the goal of society as it advances towards the actual living out of the 'Brotherhood of Man' via kingdom principles.
Nowhere does the Universal Father (the true God revealed in the UB) command or endorse wars or genocide, but the God of the OT in the Bible DOES JUST THAT - Genocide in the Bible. So,...your criticism hardly compares to passages where 'God' is commanding the wholesale slaughter of peoples in the book you hold as 'holy'. At best you could criticize the UB's attitude on the subject of eugenics within the evolutionary process and spiritual progression of man, how that some inferior, retarded or unsalvagable persons or peoples eventually have to 'die off' (thru various means), but the 'effect' and 'goal' of these advancements or 'adjustements' is always towards man's own progress and perfection. You have to look at the bigger picture and 'context' of things. The story of the flood, to eradicate evil and fallen man and Nephilim (hybrid beings between angels and men) was 'God' eradicating and cleansing the earth. So your own 'God' apparently has his own system of 'eugenics' if you will.
Finally, if you want to know Jesus teachings about war and peace, his gospel of the kingdom,....read Part 4. There you will find no blood-thirsty 'God' or campaign for genocide, but only the truth and peace loving gospel of the kingdom of heaven, centered in the truth of the 'Fatherhood of God & Brotherhood of Man'. Nowhere does the Unviersal Father or Jesus (Christ Michael) command genocide or demand blood for anything, although man's own carnal and animal nature will naturally tend towards war and conflict UNTIL he evolves and spiritually progresses to a place where WAR can be replaced with ethics and principles that make for real peace and harmonious relations among his fellow man. This is what the UB teaches, and holds the ultimate vision for, when this planet is established in Light and Life, which is the New Era or 'New Earth' state.
A synopsis of the UB's teaching on peace here.
pj
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Freelight,
In consideration of the Old Testament one must keep in mind the context of the age in which the writings were created. Much of the OT was composed by rulers compiling histories for the presentation of a consistent theology to these inferior classes that your book speaks of.
The uneducated needed a God to be afraid of. The Holy church is carful not to reveal to much of the goodness of God, the masses could hurt themselves. So for now it is still best that people be afraid for their own good. No?
Aimiel
Well-known member
It is God's Goodness that leads men to repentance. God reveals Himself at will, and wouldn't reveal anything that needed to be kept secret. He doesn't need men's help to keep secrets or make Himself look any certain way.
Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
2 Peter 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
When He reveals the interpretation of His Word, it is open to all. Pretending that the Vatican has a corner on Truth or understands mysteries that are secret from the rest of the world is foolishness.
Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
2 Peter 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
When He reveals the interpretation of His Word, it is open to all. Pretending that the Vatican has a corner on Truth or understands mysteries that are secret from the rest of the world is foolishness.
Child like faith doesn't mean uneducated ignorance. All teachings must be tested.
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