freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
We'll let intelligent readers decide for themselves, the value and pertinence of the principle of 'self-responsibility'.
pj
The Late Great Urantia Revelation
- Thread starter Caino
- Start date
- Status
We'll let intelligent readers decide for themselves, the value and pertinence of the principle of 'self-responsibility'.
pj
Never argue with an idiot, someone watching may not be able to distinguish between you.
"The religion of the mind ties you hopelessly to the past...."
Bible worshipers are stuck in the past.
Caino
Aimiel
Well-known member
Fact is: God's Word is Truth, and will NEVER be superceded. It is established. You're following false gods and lies. Those of us who have sought God with our whole hearts have actually found Him, not just information 'about' Him. Your book doesn't even contain information about God, just lies about a false god that doesn't even exist. We who know God have The Living God inside of us. All you have is a false religion brought to this earth by a demon. You're being made a fool of by devils and being used by them at their whim and have too much pride to be able to see it. That's the same sin that Satan fell from Heaven for: pride. You need a good dose of reality. You're lost. You need to repent.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
First 12 Papers
First 12 Papers
You still display an ignorance of the Urantia Papers (core revelation, teachings, principles), for it contains much essential knowledge of 'God', not just information, and a vast comprehensive 'theology' extending and expanding on the previous base of the biblical record with additional corrections and revelation. It presents itself as the 5th Epochal Revelation to this planet (Jesus incarnation and ministry was the 4th).
As before...I recommend a serious open minded reading of at least the first 10 - 12 Papers to know the fundamentals of what the papers teach about 'God', (Index of both text and audio version here in the online study edition) since these papers cover the very nature, attributes, qualities and character of Deity, the relationship of the Paradise Trinity to the cosmos and Universe of universes. The vast and intricate cosmology revealed by this group of celestials is majestic, drawing the soul to worship God and inspire its journey Godward. It hardly proclaims a false 'god', but only One True Deity, The Universal Father - It also presents 'God' as a tri-une association of 3 divine personalities, being the 'Paradise Trinity' (the Universal Father, Eternal Son and Infinite Spirit).
Again, anyone interested may sincerely read the first 12 papers which are fundamental to the revelation of 'God' and the grand universe. Knowledge of 'God' is essential theology. (note the 12 papers below cover the Creator and Creation, the primary foundation upon which all else is built or extended)
For traditional Christians interested to see how the UB corresponds as well as differs from orthodox theology see also:
Christianity and The Urantia Book: The Meredith J Sprunger Essays
Dr. Sprunger is an ordained UCC minister with a background in philosophy and theology. He is also a social scientist with a doctorate in psychology, and has had a distinguished career as a college professor and administrator. Dr. Sprunger was personally acquainted with three of the six individuals who made up the Contact Commission which interfaced with the revelators in the compiling of The Urantia Book. Over the years Dr. Sprunger has done extensive writing on topics related to the spread of The Urantia Book into the Christian church.
pj
First 12 Papers
You still display an ignorance of the Urantia Papers (core revelation, teachings, principles), for it contains much essential knowledge of 'God', not just information, and a vast comprehensive 'theology' extending and expanding on the previous base of the biblical record with additional corrections and revelation. It presents itself as the 5th Epochal Revelation to this planet (Jesus incarnation and ministry was the 4th).
As before...I recommend a serious open minded reading of at least the first 10 - 12 Papers to know the fundamentals of what the papers teach about 'God', (Index of both text and audio version here in the online study edition) since these papers cover the very nature, attributes, qualities and character of Deity, the relationship of the Paradise Trinity to the cosmos and Universe of universes. The vast and intricate cosmology revealed by this group of celestials is majestic, drawing the soul to worship God and inspire its journey Godward. It hardly proclaims a false 'god', but only One True Deity, The Universal Father - It also presents 'God' as a tri-une association of 3 divine personalities, being the 'Paradise Trinity' (the Universal Father, Eternal Son and Infinite Spirit).
Again, anyone interested may sincerely read the first 12 papers which are fundamental to the revelation of 'God' and the grand universe. Knowledge of 'God' is essential theology. (note the 12 papers below cover the Creator and Creation, the primary foundation upon which all else is built or extended)
For traditional Christians interested to see how the UB corresponds as well as differs from orthodox theology see also:
Christianity and The Urantia Book: The Meredith J Sprunger Essays
Dr. Sprunger is an ordained UCC minister with a background in philosophy and theology. He is also a social scientist with a doctorate in psychology, and has had a distinguished career as a college professor and administrator. Dr. Sprunger was personally acquainted with three of the six individuals who made up the Contact Commission which interfaced with the revelators in the compiling of The Urantia Book. Over the years Dr. Sprunger has done extensive writing on topics related to the spread of The Urantia Book into the Christian church.
pj
Freelight,
Assmeal has the hateful spirit of those cowards who hid behind the conflicting scriptures in order to Kill Jesus. He hates the truth and the Father who sent it. Cast not your pearls, it's just a lost cause.
Caino
Aimiel
Well-known member
Yes, I do; because I always ignore the rantings of a demon. What do you think devils are supposed to say: "I'm going to tell you a lie now, so that you stay away from a Bible and don't believe a word that is in one?" They don't, of course, they fool you into believing that what they have dictated to someone is actually FROM God. You've bought into the lies in Urantia. Every word on it's pages is a lie, but actually worse than a flat out lie, because it contains half-truth, which borrows from the credibility of Scripture and leads you straight into the hands of the enemy of your soul. You're the one who is severely ignorant of Satan's wiles. You've bought into the biggest lie that he's concocted yet: that he doesn't even exist.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
learning the teaching.......
learning the teaching.......
My previous post stands with direct links for your own enlightenment on the subjects concerned. Without at least reading the Foreword and first 12 papers, you cannot know what the papers teach about those 12 primary subjects which are fundamental to its theology. Ignorance and assumptions dont make for any real dialogue.
The papers teach that Lucifer, Satan, Caligastia, Daligastia, Abaddon, Beelzebub are real living entities and all banned together during the 'Lucifer Rebellion'. So to this group of celestials (the revelators).....'Satan' is a real personal being, but is now detained on the Jerusem prison worlds awaiting judgment.
I've shared my views on 'Satan' elsewhere, which may or may not agree with the UB or any school of thought, since 'satan' can be used in both its 'personal' or 'non-personal' representations.
On a more skeptical level playing field, we could ask the believer in an entity called 'Satan' to provide proof for his existence, which would be hard to come by, putting at least the non-believer in such a being in the same boat, if he were to be asked to provide proof that 'Satan' does not exist. What would be 'evidence' beyond an image or concept in one's own mind? - the value of a story lies in its meanings, values and translation.
pj
learning the teaching.......
My previous post stands with direct links for your own enlightenment on the subjects concerned. Without at least reading the Foreword and first 12 papers, you cannot know what the papers teach about those 12 primary subjects which are fundamental to its theology. Ignorance and assumptions dont make for any real dialogue.
The papers teach that Lucifer, Satan, Caligastia, Daligastia, Abaddon, Beelzebub are real living entities and all banned together during the 'Lucifer Rebellion'. So to this group of celestials (the revelators).....'Satan' is a real personal being, but is now detained on the Jerusem prison worlds awaiting judgment.
I've shared my views on 'Satan' elsewhere, which may or may not agree with the UB or any school of thought, since 'satan' can be used in both its 'personal' or 'non-personal' representations.
On a more skeptical level playing field, we could ask the believer in an entity called 'Satan' to provide proof for his existence, which would be hard to come by, putting at least the non-believer in such a being in the same boat, if he were to be asked to provide proof that 'Satan' does not exist. What would be 'evidence' beyond an image or concept in one's own mind? - the value of a story lies in its meanings, values and translation.
pj
Aimiel
Well-known member
Thinking he's imprisoned is probably the same as thinking he doesn't exist. Taking the lies he's put into Urantia as if they are from God is the same thing as being a Satan-worshiper. You're doing his bidding and hacking away at God's Word with the Urantia lies. Making Satan into 'stories' at best is not helpful, either. You take your enemy seriously and he'll oppose you. If you agree with him, he'll give you his goods. You have all the characteristics of the devils you're following.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Progressive revelation......
Progressive revelation......
Thats what the papers teach. If Satan or any one of the rebel sons of God didn't exist, they couldn't be 'imprisoned' anywhere.
Its an account like any other religious document (come by inspired or channeled means). A reader uses his own discernment and takes what he can from it.
That's your point of view.
And what in the Bible about 'Satan' or any other various personalities are not shared about in 'stories'? How much of the Bible has human interpolations, embellishments, literary devices and other inventions? Mythology has its place.
Sounds like you've been taught to believe this concept.
We'll let readers and those who have known me for many years here decide if that's true or not
In-joy,
pj
Progressive revelation......
Thats what the papers teach. If Satan or any one of the rebel sons of God didn't exist, they couldn't be 'imprisoned' anywhere.
Its an account like any other religious document (come by inspired or channeled means). A reader uses his own discernment and takes what he can from it.
That's your point of view.
And what in the Bible about 'Satan' or any other various personalities are not shared about in 'stories'? How much of the Bible has human interpolations, embellishments, literary devices and other inventions? Mythology has its place.
Sounds like you've been taught to believe this concept.
We'll let readers and those who have known me for many years here decide if that's true or not
In-joy,
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Know what you criticize first before presuming.....
Know what you criticize first before presuming.....
Reason is a principle highly spoken of in the Papers, as it espouses the highest precepts of logic, reason, wisdom, truth, beauty, goodness, etc. You'd have to learn what the UB is all about first, by following the previous dialogues and appropriate resource links which give one a first-hand education in the matter. Also the recommended reading of at least the first 12 papers is essential, or one could go right to Part 4 on the life and teachings of Jesus, but having a background of the theology as a foundation is helpful in putting the role of Jesus in proper light.
Meredith Sprunger is an excellent educator for traditional christias in this regard -
Christianity and The Urantia Book: The Meredith J Sprunger Essays
~*~*~
Remember' its the content of the revelation that matters, those meanings, principles and values regarding the religious life and eternal progression of the soul. While the conceptual frames are in a greater cosmology of terms and universe mythology,...the principles governing the evolving soul, its immortality potential and eternal destiny remain.
As far as your description of 'garbage' goes, much in the Bible or other religious writings or epics could be disparaged as myths or fairy tales as well on a variety of levels, beyond what 'faith' believers might have in its authenticity, for at last its what the believer finds of value within the meanings and utility of a religious book, revelation or tradition that holds his interest.
pj
Know what you criticize first before presuming.....
Reason is a principle highly spoken of in the Papers, as it espouses the highest precepts of logic, reason, wisdom, truth, beauty, goodness, etc. You'd have to learn what the UB is all about first, by following the previous dialogues and appropriate resource links which give one a first-hand education in the matter. Also the recommended reading of at least the first 12 papers is essential, or one could go right to Part 4 on the life and teachings of Jesus, but having a background of the theology as a foundation is helpful in putting the role of Jesus in proper light.
Meredith Sprunger is an excellent educator for traditional christias in this regard -
Christianity and The Urantia Book: The Meredith J Sprunger Essays
~*~*~
Remember' its the content of the revelation that matters, those meanings, principles and values regarding the religious life and eternal progression of the soul. While the conceptual frames are in a greater cosmology of terms and universe mythology,...the principles governing the evolving soul, its immortality potential and eternal destiny remain.
As far as your description of 'garbage' goes, much in the Bible or other religious writings or epics could be disparaged as myths or fairy tales as well on a variety of levels, beyond what 'faith' believers might have in its authenticity, for at last its what the believer finds of value within the meanings and utility of a religious book, revelation or tradition that holds his interest.
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
qualify your criticisms...............
qualify your criticisms...............
See previous post(s) and recommended research material if you want a real dialogue on the contents of the papers. Ignorance, assumptions or false comparisons don't hold here, since without proper knowledge or information on the subject there is no point in continuing a 'debate' here, which is about this particular revelation and the implications/significance of it. I'm being very charitable here. The topic is the Urantia Revelation and all that it entails within the greater context of human knowledge in all realms of religion, science and philosophy.
'Reason' and 'faith' have their place in religious life,..there is no need to assume they oppose each other. Also no need to be a dual-conflict with 'revealed theology' and 'philosophy', or to make a comparison with 'Plato and the philosophers' with 'new age' philosophy,...since the universal value of philosophy is highly valued and expounded on in the papers.
~*~*~
103:6.3 Religion has to do with the spiritual viewpoint, the awareness of the insideness of human experience. Man’s spiritual nature affords him the opportunity of turning the universe outside in. It is therefore true that, viewed exclusively from the insideness of personality experience, all creation appears to be spiritual in nature.
103:6.4 When man analytically inspects the universe through the material endowments of his physical senses and associated mind perception, the cosmos appears to be mechanical and energy-material. Such a technique of studying reality consists in turning the universe inside out.
103:6.5 A logical and consistent philosophic concept of the universe cannot be built up on the postulations of either materialism or spiritism, for both of these systems of thinking, when universally applied, are compelled to view the cosmos in distortion, the former contacting with a universe turned inside out, the latter realizing the nature of a universe turned outside in. Never, then, can either science or religion, in and of themselves, standing alone, hope to gain an adequate understanding of universal truths and relationships without the guidance of human philosophy and the illumination of divine revelation.
~*~*~
103:7.13 Reason is the act of recognizing the conclusions of consciousness with regard to the experience in and with the physical world of energy and matter. Faith is the act of recognizing the validity of spiritual consciousness — something which is incapable of other mortal proof. Logic is the synthetic truth-seeking progression of the unity of faith and reason and is founded on the constitutive mind endowments of mortal beings, the innate recognition of things, meanings, and values.
103:7.14 There is a real proof of spiritual reality in the presence of the Thought Adjuster, but the validity of this presence is not demonstrable to the external world, only to the one who thus experiences the indwelling of God. The consciousness of the Adjuster is based on the intellectual reception of truth.....
- UB
~*~*~
For the UB's concept of 'religion' in human experience see these papers (99 - 103) -
99. The Social Problems of Religion
100. Religion in Human Experience
101. The Real Nature of Religion
102. The Foundations of Religious Faith
103. The Reality of Religious Experience
Index portal here
As shared previously,...one may consider this a genuine revelation from celestials or 'religious fiction' having varying degrees of inspiration, from both human and non-human sources, which is what it claims anyways, since a base of already existing human knowledge and sources where used by the revelators from which to expand upon (in many sections), although new terms, meanings and concept-coordinations are unique to the papers themselves.
pj
qualify your criticisms...............
See previous post(s) and recommended research material if you want a real dialogue on the contents of the papers. Ignorance, assumptions or false comparisons don't hold here, since without proper knowledge or information on the subject there is no point in continuing a 'debate' here, which is about this particular revelation and the implications/significance of it. I'm being very charitable here. The topic is the Urantia Revelation and all that it entails within the greater context of human knowledge in all realms of religion, science and philosophy.
'Reason' and 'faith' have their place in religious life,..there is no need to assume they oppose each other. Also no need to be a dual-conflict with 'revealed theology' and 'philosophy', or to make a comparison with 'Plato and the philosophers' with 'new age' philosophy,...since the universal value of philosophy is highly valued and expounded on in the papers.
~*~*~
103:6.3 Religion has to do with the spiritual viewpoint, the awareness of the insideness of human experience. Man’s spiritual nature affords him the opportunity of turning the universe outside in. It is therefore true that, viewed exclusively from the insideness of personality experience, all creation appears to be spiritual in nature.
103:6.4 When man analytically inspects the universe through the material endowments of his physical senses and associated mind perception, the cosmos appears to be mechanical and energy-material. Such a technique of studying reality consists in turning the universe inside out.
103:6.5 A logical and consistent philosophic concept of the universe cannot be built up on the postulations of either materialism or spiritism, for both of these systems of thinking, when universally applied, are compelled to view the cosmos in distortion, the former contacting with a universe turned inside out, the latter realizing the nature of a universe turned outside in. Never, then, can either science or religion, in and of themselves, standing alone, hope to gain an adequate understanding of universal truths and relationships without the guidance of human philosophy and the illumination of divine revelation.
~*~*~
103:7.13 Reason is the act of recognizing the conclusions of consciousness with regard to the experience in and with the physical world of energy and matter. Faith is the act of recognizing the validity of spiritual consciousness — something which is incapable of other mortal proof. Logic is the synthetic truth-seeking progression of the unity of faith and reason and is founded on the constitutive mind endowments of mortal beings, the innate recognition of things, meanings, and values.
103:7.14 There is a real proof of spiritual reality in the presence of the Thought Adjuster, but the validity of this presence is not demonstrable to the external world, only to the one who thus experiences the indwelling of God. The consciousness of the Adjuster is based on the intellectual reception of truth.....
- UB
~*~*~
For the UB's concept of 'religion' in human experience see these papers (99 - 103) -
99. The Social Problems of Religion
100. Religion in Human Experience
101. The Real Nature of Religion
102. The Foundations of Religious Faith
103. The Reality of Religious Experience
Index portal here
As shared previously,...one may consider this a genuine revelation from celestials or 'religious fiction' having varying degrees of inspiration, from both human and non-human sources, which is what it claims anyways, since a base of already existing human knowledge and sources where used by the revelators from which to expand upon (in many sections), although new terms, meanings and concept-coordinations are unique to the papers themselves.
pj
Last edited:
Aimiel
Well-known member
Your papers are lying, as usual. If Satan were imprisoned: there would be no more disease or death.
God inspires. The Urantia papers were not inspired. They were channeled by a demon. That is a far cry from being inspired. It's the opposite. It's from hell.
It is fact, because you don't believe God's Word and the Urantia Papers don't support God's Word. If these papers were Truth, they would support Scripture, not set it aside.
None. The Bible is Truth. It is holy and we rely on it as the most accurate source of spiritual Truth, historical record and thinking otherwise always leads to problems.
Yes, it does: entertainment. Scripture has It's place too: It leads us to God. Mythology only gives us information on false gods who do not even exist.
Yes, it is one of the lessons that I learned as I got my Ph.D. from The School of Hard Knocks.
Yes, the homosexual demon who steers you is our first clue, too.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Then why is it you never make the highest use of it?
Isaiah 1:18
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Lost Comet
New member
Reason would read the suggested papers, if for no other reason than to properly refute them.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
moving along.......
moving along.......
They are not 'my papers', - I don't serve as an apologist for the UB, but since I have been a reader over the years, and this is a thread on the papers,...I represent them 'appropriately' in any given context.
There is no reason to believe ALL disease or death comes from a personality named 'satan'.
Of course,...the Spirit that originates and gives life to all, is the primal 'breath'. Nothing exists or comes into being independent of 'God'.
1:6.8 God is spirit — spirit personality; man is also a spirit — potential spirit personality. Jesus of Nazareth attained the full realization of this potential of spirit personality in human experience; therefore his life of achieving the Father’s will becomes man’s most real and ideal revelation of the personality of God. Even though the personality of the Universal Father can be grasped only in actual religious experience, in Jesus’ earth life we are inspired by the perfect demonstration of such a realization and revelation of the personality of God in a truly human experience. -UB
This personal 'ad hominem' which you feel you must resort to, has nothing to do with the subject at hand, and is therefore defamatory. Its really uncalled for.
We would therefore refer you back to 'square 1' here. Do your homework first, its a prerequisite for a real dialogue. Thats what the thread is for.
pj
moving along.......
They are not 'my papers', - I don't serve as an apologist for the UB, but since I have been a reader over the years, and this is a thread on the papers,...I represent them 'appropriately' in any given context.
There is no reason to believe ALL disease or death comes from a personality named 'satan'.
Of course,...the Spirit that originates and gives life to all, is the primal 'breath'. Nothing exists or comes into being independent of 'God'.
1:6.8 God is spirit — spirit personality; man is also a spirit — potential spirit personality. Jesus of Nazareth attained the full realization of this potential of spirit personality in human experience; therefore his life of achieving the Father’s will becomes man’s most real and ideal revelation of the personality of God. Even though the personality of the Universal Father can be grasped only in actual religious experience, in Jesus’ earth life we are inspired by the perfect demonstration of such a realization and revelation of the personality of God in a truly human experience. -UB
This personal 'ad hominem' which you feel you must resort to, has nothing to do with the subject at hand, and is therefore defamatory. Its really uncalled for.
We would therefore refer you back to 'square 1' here. Do your homework first, its a prerequisite for a real dialogue. Thats what the thread is for.
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
- Status