beloved57
Well-known member
You are promoting Salvation by work's, by what a person does, so you deny salvation by what Christ did alone.
The "L" in TULIP Means that Jesus is NOT Lord
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
You are promoting Salvation by work's, by what a person does, so you deny salvation by what Christ did alone.
And, you are an enemy of the Grace Gospel.
Of course, you're wrong. Can you back up your false doctrine with Scripture?
Amen
Brother Ducky
New member
I might be, but I do not think so. Not on this, anyway. Actually, I am not sure what I am supposed to be wrong about here. Perhaps it is any and everything I say, being Reformed, and all.
But, as is far too common on TOL, you make a statement and fail to even try to support it. Why or how am I wrong? I am not even sure that there is anything doctrinal in what I wrote.
I said "I think" about the meaning of "world in this location." I might be wrong, but you could or perhaps should say why it means something else here. You could argue that "world" always means every human being. I would counter with Acts 17:6
6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;...
KJV
But if the issue is with the idea that Romans 10:13 does not say that any human being can call on the name of the Lord; then it is not a theological issue that requires Scriptural support. It is a matter of English and reading what is there, and not reading into it what is not there.
Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. True. But it just does not say that any human being can actually do that. Not in the text. Might or might not be true. But you can not make a case for it from this verse. It is just not there.
Who is the "whoever" speaking about? Who are they?
There could be a sign placed on a road that says; "Whoever turns right here
will be subject to a ticket!" Who does that sign pertain to?
will be subject to a ticket!" Who does that sign pertain to?
Brother Ducky
New member
All who are driving in/on a vehicle who make a right turn at that location. It does not apply to passengers of the vehicles. It does not apply to those who are not at that location. It does not apply to those who will never be at that location. It does not apply to pedestrians at that location.
In other words, it has a restricted application.
musterion
Well-known member
Notice he skipped this question in favor of the later one, just like he neither confirmed nor denied my observation on his definition of "world."
Last edited:
You are desperate to believe a lie.
If you wanted the truth it is there in the scriptures.
To support your lie, you are willing to twist and pervert God's word.
That's very true Brother Pate.
Illogical way of looking at the original analogy. You're overthinking
the concept.
Brother Ducky
New member
How is it illogical?
I might be overthinking, but I believe that is better than underthinking.
Brother Ducky
New member
What do I twist and pervert? What and how, please.
Brother Ducky
New member
Did not know I had to answer every question by everyone posed to me. I know a lot of my questions do go unanswered.
Which post of yours are you referring to? There is one that I am going to respond to, but it took several days to receive it, and it deserves the time to mull things over before responding.
But I thought the answering of the second question answered the first, but I guess not.
The "whoever/whosoever" is defined by the passage as those who call on the name of the Lord. That would be a subset of all human beings, but there is nothing in the passage to indicate that all who belong to the set of all human beings can also be in the subset of those human beings that call on the name of the Lord.
May they can, and maybe they can't. This passage has no information as to who may or may not.
The Bible does NOT support Calvinism.
The word "Predestination" only appears in the Bible 4 times.
No where is the word, "predestination" related to anyone being predestinated.
There is no scripture about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell.
You want to grab a handful of scriptures and make a doctrine out of them.
You are desperate to believe a lie so that you don't have to accept Jesus Christ as your only means of salvation.
Brother Ducky
New member
I believe that it does. Lots of Calvinists and Reformed folk believe the same. I do not think that it is a matter of salvation. Most Calvinists, I believe, would hold the same view. Probably why most of us do not spend a lot of time destining those who hold other views to hell.
I will take your word for it. Easy to check, not worth the effort. But, so what? You have as a pet doctrine the "Re-imputation of Sin." That term is found how many times in Scripture? The concept is found how many times in Scripture? To the best of my knowledge, the answer to both questions is zero. Feel to correct me if I am incorrect, but if your argument against Calvinism hinges at all on the number of occurrences of the term, then for the sake of intellectual honesty, it had better be greater than four.
Different term, but same meaning, I believe: Acts 13:48 speaks to the issue...
New International Version
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
New Living Translation
When the Gentiles heard this, they were very glad and thanked the Lord for his message; and all who were chosen for eternal life became believers.
English Standard Version
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
Berean Study Bible
When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
Berean Literal Bible
And the Gentiles hearing it were rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
New American Standard Bible
When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
King James Bible
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the message of the Lord, and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed.
International Standard Version
When the gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord. Meanwhile, all who had been destined to eternal life believed,
NET Bible
When the Gentiles heard this, they began to rejoice and praise the word of the Lord, and all who had been appointed for eternal life believed.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And as the Gentiles were hearing, they were rejoicing and glorifying God, and they that were appointed to eternal life believed.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
The people who were not Jews were pleased with what they heard and praised the Lord's word. Everyone who had been prepared for everlasting life believed.
New American Standard 1977
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
Jubilee Bible 2000
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord, and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
King James 2000 Bible
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
American King James Version
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
American Standard Version
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And the Gentiles hearing it, were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to life everlasting, believed.
Darby Bible Translation
And [those of] the nations, hearing it, rejoiced, and glorified the word of the Lord, and believed, as many as were ordained to eternal life.
English Revised Version
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Webster's Bible Translation
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life, believed.
Weymouth New Testament
The Gentiles listened with delight and extolled the Lord's Message; and all who were pre-destined to the Life of the Ages believed.
World English Bible
As the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God. As many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
Young's Literal Translation
And the nations hearing were glad, and were glorifying the word of the Lord, and did believe -- as many as were appointed to life age-during;
I believe that the Reformed system has the best overall explanation of the total teaching of Scripture. Yes there are hard parts and verses. But that would be true of any theological system.
At any rate, grabbing a handful of scriptures and making a doctrine out of them is a lot more sound than take a handful of no Scriptures and making a doctrine out of one's vain imagination, see above regarding the Re-imputation of Sin Doctrine.
Calvinists and Reformed folk accept that Jesus Christ is the only means of our salvation.
musterion
Well-known member
God has reconciled the world to Himself by the cross, upon which Christ died for the sins of the world.
In your soteriology, who is (or, as the case may be, is not) "the world"?
Brother Ducky
New member
Jews + Gentiles as classes, not necessarily as individuals.
musterion
Well-known member
If you're wrong, you'll be guilty of blaspheming the God of all grace Who is love. Do you realize that?