To not believe that Jesus atoned for the sins of the world is a denial of the Gospel and will put you under the wrath of God. But don't worry, you will have plenty of company.
The Importance of Believing that Jesus Atoned for the Sins of the World
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
To not believe that Jesus atoned for the sins of the world is a denial of the Gospel and will put you under the wrath of God. But don't worry, you will have plenty of company.
beloved57
Well-known member
You are encouraging people to believe a lie, something the scriptures dont teach !
You don't understand John 3:16.
John 3:16 Modern English Version (MEV)
16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
I believe it as saying that man has the free-will choice to believe in God. When he does, salvation is granted by the father through the Son. In no way did God ever desire us to be robots of Calvinism.
beloved57
Well-known member
See, you don't believe it or understand it!
You are a scripture twister if you do not see that Anyone who calls on the name will be saved.
j4jesus09
New member
Isn't freewill attached to the understanding on the inside? Doesn't what's on the inside show on the outside? Thus freewill?
Yes. Freewill is attached to choice. We must choose what we believe.
j4jesus09
New member
Walk with me in my understanding. Doesn't choices come from the person's understanding. What's on the inside?
I don't see that at all.
I believe your fear and defensiveness comes from the fact that I like to focus on context and history. I enjoy learning about the religious, political and social events surrounding the times of the Bible--especially in Jesus' day.
Most pastors talk about statements of belief such as "Jesus died for our sins," "Jesus is the Son of God," etc. They do not seem very interested in explaining what those phrases meant to the original authors and their readers and listeners.
I can't blame you for your feelings here. I can only point out that you are being--in my opinion--too quick to judge.
Christianity is a historical faith and I take it seriously in that regard.
I try to first determine what the text actually says and then I try to find out what that meant in its original context. And only then can I try to apply that knowledge to everyday life in the 21st century.
To me, it is Jesus and only Jesus who is the "norm" of the Bible.
God presents us with a choice. Will we accept him for who he says he is or will we reject him. It really is as simple as this; "He who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved."
I just don't see any evidence that Jesus came to the temple during the last week of his life to "plead for salvation."
I believe that you are taking the ancient prophets of the Hebrew Bible out of context to support your own personal theology here. As we all know, Matthew did this as well to convince his readers that there was a strong continuity between Jesus and what ancient authors wrote about.
In that respect you and I are probably different, because I have been convinced that Matthew clearly forced the writings of the prophets into a prediction of something in Jesus' life centuries later.
j4jesus09
New member
Yes He does present us with a choice. You think each and everyone person in this entire world has seen or understood what you just stated?
No, that is why there are teachers, pastors and evangelists.
Matthew 28:19-20 Modern English Version (MEV)
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
It is just too easy to cherry-pick phrases and theologies from the entire Bible to justify one's own beliefs.
I think I know this full well because I admit that I, too, "cherry-pick" my own beliefs.
I try to focus on Jesus himself, in the context of his times. This will mean that I don't preference anything second-hand about him. I try to be aware of his unique voice and manner of speaking--the parables and the short, pithy sayings. To me this is the Jesus I pay attention to.
I see the Bible as the "words" of God--not "THE word" of God. It is a product of inspired men who wrote in different times and wrote from different traditions and agendas. And the New Testament in particular was written down at least 50 years after Jesus died. We are dealing with remembered history from oral tradition, metaphor, theology, myth and legend.
As a Christian it is my responsibility to try and separate out those different and diverse strands so I can locate and isolate the teachings of Jesus from the words and deeds that were attributed to him by the gospel writers. In other words, I try to separate their idea of Jesus from the actual historical figure who walked the dusty roads of Palestine.
j4jesus09
New member
Understood that is what teachers are for. They teach knowledge. I understand because I have been born again and can now see God. God led me to accepting His son. Before, I didn't understand and wouldn't have if God didn't rattle me. So can we just understand the teaching without God? Is something special inside of me? Am I more smart than another. Am I more wise than another? If so, did the next person not have the same inside them? If so, how can they understand. These are all valid questions that scripture teaches us about.
j4jesus09
New member
Understood.
glorydaz
Well-known member
God created us to know Him..."that which may be known of God is manifest IN THEM." Thus all men are without excuse.
Romans 1:19-20 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Do you believe this B 57?
1 John 4:10 Modern English Version (MEV)
10 In this is love: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins.
1 John 4:10 Modern English Version (MEV)
10 In this is love: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins.