The Gospel Verses Predestination

[God's Truth]

You already made false statements no where found in scripture.

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You should have said that to the Calvinism you accepted.

 

[God's Truth]

Indeed, those whom God quickens both hear and believe. These are those whom the Father has given to Jesus. His sheep hear his voice.

Right faith is only given to those whom God quickens.

Satan is the accuser. You seem to be accusing me of not being quickened by the grace of God. I am not worried by your accusations.
All whom God chose to save were saved that day. Praise God.

A dead man cannot hear. He must be quickened.

God gives those whom He has quickened faith to believe.

I am wide awake. Indeed, Jesus atoning sacrifice is the only reason I can stand before God the Father and not be condemned. God's gracious choice to redeem me despite my wretched condition is worthy of eternal praise. Holy, holy, holy is the Lamb that was slain.

You have flat out lied with that sentence. Neither Calvin nor Luther nor Zwingli ever tries to make Jesus atonement for the elect ineffective.

RP, if Jesus atonement is effective for all humanity, past, present and future, is all humanity therefore saved?
Can us little humans negate the effectual work of God by our little ole' wills?

God saves those who love Him and believe Him.

God doesn't save people who don't believe and don't love Him.

 

[MennoSota]

The Gentiles were dead in their sins because they did not do the purification works of the old law.

Paul is explaining that God saved those dead in sin Gentiles and didn't make them get circumcised before He would save them.

Both Jew and Gentile are dead in their sins because they fail to obey God’s moral law. Gentiles were never required to follow purification rituals. Jews failed to be righteous as well.
The reason why all humans are dead in their trespasses and sins is because they missed the mark and died.
You have no clue what you are talking about, GT. Keep digging your grave if you wish.

 

[MennoSota]

You denial is no defense for truth.

You aren't speaking truth except in the delusion of your own mind, GT.

 

[God's Truth]

You aren't speaking truth except in the delusion of your own mind, GT.

Your insults are no defense of truth. In fact, it shows who has it and who does not.

 

[God's Truth]

Both Jew and Gentile are dead in their sins because they fail to obey God’s moral law. Gentiles were never required to follow purification rituals.

Gentiles were excluded because they did not follow the old law.

Jews were NOT dead in their sins!

They were justified and sanctified by the purification works.

The purification works purified.

Jews failed to be righteous as well.
The reason why all humans are dead in their trespasses and sins is because they missed the mark and died.
You have no clue what you are talking about, GT. Keep digging your grave if you wish.

You are going against the scriptures.

 

[God's Truth]

The reason why all humans are dead in their trespasses and sins is because they missed the mark and died.
You have no clue what you are talking about, GT. Keep digging your grave if you wish.

Everyone, just listen to this what Menno says.

He/she is going against me and says I am digging a grave for preaching obedience to Christ.
Anyone out there care?

 

[MennoSota]

Gentiles were excluded because they did not follow the old law.

Jews were NOT dead in their sins!

They were justified and sanctified by the purification works.

The purification works purified.



You are going against the scriptures.

All people were dead in their trespasses and sins. Not all Israel is Israel. Only those to whom God gave faith were saved.

 

[God's Truth]

All people were dead in their trespasses and sins. Not all Israel is Israel. Only those to whom God gave faith were saved.

No. Only those who had faith were saved.
You have so much trouble with the truth because you go against obeying.

 

[glorydaz]

Calvinists say we all hate God and are His enemy, and in this state of hate, God gives us the Holy Spirit to cause us to believe. We do not receive God’s Spirit if we hate God! We receive God and Jesus’ Spirit when we love God and obey.

Spoiler

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Calvinists say we have to do nothing, not even believe. That is not biblical. The bible clearly and plainly says that we have to believe. We have to obey.

We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him. Acts 5:32. God gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey.

Where does our faith come from? Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:14. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14. In Acts 26:17 Jesus tells Paul he is sending him to the Jews and Gentiles to OPEN THEIR EYES and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God. How do you think Paul is going to open the eyes of the Jews and the Gentiles? Remember, faith comes from hearing the word, and Jesus sent Paul to preach the gospel. 1 Corinthians 1:18 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel–not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Read what Paul says in Romans 16:25-27. Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him–to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

Paul says that God made the prophetic writings (the prophetic writings from the Old Testament), known so that all nations might believe and obey. So again, the word of God tells us that faith comes from hearing.

It does you no good to condemn Calvinists when you are in so much error yourself. You misstate Paul and what the Calvinists say, so your testimony is to be considered VOID.

The obedience of faith is NOT what YOU preach. So don't twist Paul's words by misstating what he says.

Romans 16:25-27
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.​

 

[MennoSota]

No. Only those who had faith were saved.
You have so much trouble with the truth because you go against obeying.

Right. God gave those whom He made alive faith to believe. It's all God. You cannot boast.

 

[God's Truth]

Right. God gave those whom He made alive faith to believe. It's all God. You cannot boast.

The person had to have faith. God does not give someone faith to save them.

 

[God's Truth]

It does you no good to condemn Calvinists when you are in so much error yourself. You misstate Paul and what the Calvinists say, so your testimony is to be considered VOID.

The obedience of faith is NOT what YOU preach. So don't twist Paul's words by misstating what he says.

Romans 16:25-27
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.​

The obedience of faith is about having faith and obeying.

It isn't a tricky wording.

It means exactly what it says.

 

[God's Truth]

Where in the world does anyone get that it isn't right to obey Jesus?
We can obey our parents, teachers, our employers, driving rules, the government. We can follow manuals, instructions, directions, recipes, how to fix a car, etc.

We can do all that but we can't do what Jesus says to do to get saved?

Calvinism is nonsense.

 

[God's Truth]

Right. God gave those whom He made alive faith to believe. It's all God. You cannot boast.

Paul says we can boast in obeying.

We just can't boast in cleaning ourselves.

 

[God's Truth]

Faith alone: "I will believe and do nothing else, then save me".
Calvinism: "I can't believe or do anything, until you save me".

Jesus: Believe and obey me, then I will save you.

 

[MennoSota]

The person had to have faith. God does not give someone faith to save them.

Yes, God quickens them (makes them alive in Christ), saves them by grace through faith (which is not from our selves) it (faith) is a gift from God so that no one can boast.
That's what God says in Ephesians 2:8-9. It's right there in black and white for you, GT. You have to completely ignore what God says and teach the opposite to say "God does not give them faith to save them." That is EXACTLY what God says He does. God makes us alive in Christ and God gives us the gift of faith.
Close your eyes, ignore God's word and stamp your feet all you want, but God's word remains true and you a liar.

 

[MennoSota]

Faith alone: "I will believe and do nothing else, then save me".
Calvinism: "I can't believe or do anything, until you save me".

Jesus: Believe and obey me, then I will save you.

I'm curious about the verse where Jesus says "Believe and obey me, then I will save you."
I expect a verse out of context from you so don't disappoint me...

 

[God's Truth]

I'm curious about the verse where Jesus says "Believe and obey me, then I will save you."
I expect a verse out of context from you so don't disappoint me...

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, God quickens them (makes them alive in Christ), saves them by grace through faith (which is not from our selves) it (faith) is a gift from God so that no one can boast.
That's what God says in Ephesians 2:8-9. It's right there in black and white for you, GT. You have to completely ignore what God says and teach the opposite to say "God does not give them faith to save them." That is EXACTLY what God says He does. God makes us alive in Christ and God gives us the gift of faith.
Close your eyes, ignore God's word and stamp your feet all you want, but God's word remains true and you a liar.

It is not of yourselves means none of the purification works will clean you to save you.