The fossil record shows there never was evolution.

[Caino]

Er, no. 1) You, by your own admission, saw problems with the Bible as a child. Your 6 year old child doesn't get to tell me about the New Testament. You kept advice from that 6 year old all your life. lain: Next, the UB is as dull as any cultic fabrication that has ever been produced. Free hates that I compare it to the BoM, but it is even worse. I cannot believe an adult would willingly choose what is verifiably false. You nor the UB folks from 1950 can possibly be compared to the disciples. :nono:

We like our book, it makes sense. You are stuck defending the wild histories of those who killed the prophets and eventually the Son of God. But oh no, the church governments of men are above reproach, never wrong about anything.

 

[Lon]

We like our book, it makes sense. You are stuck defending the wild histories of those who killed the prophets and eventually the Son of God. But oh no, the church governments of men are above reproach, never wrong about anything.

As this isn't what this thread is about, we can move along after this point.

 

[6days]

Lon.... You asked about the 20% figure of Neandertal DNA.
Its simply a dishonest way that evolutionists present data. ....Then gullible people (Caino possibly?) fall for the misrepresentation.

People would wonder how can we only be 20% the same as Neandeertals but 99% the same as chimps.
So...I will try explain.
First of all, we are not 99% similar DNA to chimps. Geneticists can't give an accurate number because there are complete sequences missing from one to the other. It gets complicated trying to compare, when they aren't even sure how it is all read. I have seen numbers of 70% up to 99%...although most now shy away from the high numbers.

Neandertals are 99.7% similar to us. You and I are about 99.9% similar. We can't be 100% similar or I would be you . The .2% difference from us to Neandertals is easily explained in the Biblical model. A few possible things factor into this including a people group who are separated from us by a few thousand years.

Re. the 20% number Caino used....Its really a dishonest way of presenting the data to make people think Neandertals were not fully human. Try think of it as ancestry...You might have 20 Percent Neanderthal Genome..... You might also have 40% European aancestry and another 40% Asian. .

Evolutionists have had to walk back virtually everything they once taught about Neandertals.
Evolutionists taught Neandertals were dimwitted.
...Science shows they were intelligent.
Evolutionists claimed Neandertals couldn't breed with humans
... Science shows they were our ancestors.
Evolutionists claimed Neandertals were inarticulate.
... Science shows they were as capable of speech as we are.
Evolutionists claimed they were carnivores.
...Science shows they ate grains and understood herbs.
Evolutionists claimed they didn't have culture.
...Science shows their humanity (Jewellery, burial with ceremony etc)

Evolutionists try rob ancient man of their humanity .
Science shows God's Word to be true... There is one race...the human race. We are all descendants of Adam and Eve. Christ died for all. His blood was shed for Neandertals..... Pygmies..... Evolutionists.... and Christ even died for someone as unworthy as me. Amazing love... How can it be, that thou my God would die for me?

 

[Sonnet]

I don't have a hang up with the Jews per say, they have produced the greatest share of intellectual accomplishments in the world. Regular people like any other.

What I DO have a problem with is the complete redaction of the OT books during the Babylonian captivity by the Hebrew priest class. They converted an ordinary secular history into a miraculous fiction that has horribly discolored the religious and historic worldview of the Christian church. In so doing they have contaminated the original gospel movement by attaching Jesus to the writings of those who killed him. It is precisely because of these fanatical YEC proponents, the anti science, anti intellectual goofs that so many in the world will have nothing to do with something that is so messed up!

Whole load of stuff going on here. Perhaps you should clarify what you actually believe.

You mention Jesus - so who was he to you?

 

[Sonnet]

Oh sure, I don't have a problem with what Atheist or agnostics think of me, this isn't a popularity contest. The disciples of Jesus didn't wonder around taking abuse hoping they would get "likes" and cudo's. They were the odd balls of their day and were killed for it by, well, sorry Lon, by people like you who thought they were doing a service to God. The main problem Jesus faced was the right wing scripture worshipers.

???

 

[chair]

I don't have a hang up with the Jews per say, they have produced the greatest share of intellectual accomplishments in the world. Regular people like any other.

What I DO have a problem with is the complete redaction of the OT books during the Babylonian captivity by the Hebrew priest class. They converted an ordinary secular history into a miraculous fiction that has horribly discolored the religious and historic worldview of the Christian church. In so doing they have contaminated the original gospel movement by attaching Jesus to the writings of those who killed him. It is precisely because of these fanatical YEC proponents, the anti science, anti intellectual goofs that so many in the world will have nothing to do with something that is so messed up!

What makes you think there ever was an "ordinary secular history"? It never was- and pretending that it was and is a "history" in the modern sense is one of the great errors of Bibilcall literalists of all types.

 

[Crucible]

Oh sure, I don't have a problem with what Atheist or agnostics think of me, this isn't a popularity contest. The disciples of Jesus didn't wonder around taking abuse hoping they would get "likes" and cudo's. They were the odd balls of their day and were killed for it by, well, sorry Lon, by people like you who thought they were doing a service to God. The main problem Jesus faced was the right wing scripture worshipers.

:nuke:
Oh snap!

 

[Sonnet]

Lon.... You asked about the 20% figure of Neandertal DNA.
Its simply a dishonest way that evolutionists present data. ....Then gullible people (Caino possibly?) fall for the misrepresentation.

People would wonder how can we only be 20% the same as Neandeertals but 99% the same as chimps.
So...I will try explain.
First of all, we are not 99% similar DNA to chimps. Geneticists can't give an accurate number because there are complete sequences missing from one to the other. It gets complicated trying to compare, when they aren't even sure how it is all read. I have seen numbers of 70% up to 99%...although most now shy away from the high numbers.

Neandertals are 99.7% similar to us. You and I are about 99.9% similar. We can't be 100% similar or I would be you . The .2% difference from us to Neandertals is easily explained in the Biblical model. A few possible things factor into this including a people group who are separated from us by a few thousand years.

Re. the 20% number Caino used....Its really a dishonest way of presenting the data to make people think Neandertals were not fully human. Try think of it as ancestry...You might have 20 Percent Neanderthal Genome..... You might also have 40% European aancestry and another 40% Asian. .

Evolutionists have had to walk back virtually everything they once taught about Neandertals.
Evolutionists taught Neandertals were dimwitted.
...Science shows they were intelligent.
Evolutionists claimed Neandertals couldn't breed with humans
... Science shows they were our ancestors.
Evolutionists claimed Neandertals were inarticulate.
... Science shows they were as capable of speech as we are.
Evolutionists claimed they were carnivores.
...Science shows they ate grains and understood herbs.
Evolutionists claimed they didn't have culture.
...Science shows their humanity (Jewellery, burial with ceremony etc)

Evolutionists try rob ancient man of their humanity .
Science shows God's Word to be true... There is one race...the human race. We are all descendants of Adam and Eve. Christ died for all. His blood was shed for Neandertals..... Pygmies..... Evolutionists.... and Christ even died for someone as unworthy as me. Amazing love... How can it be, that thou my God would die for me?

Do you reject orogeny?

 

[Caino]

Whole load of stuff going on here. Perhaps you should clarify what you actually believe.

You mention Jesus - so who was he to you?

To me Jesus is a Paradise creator Son of God, he has a Father and is the Father to his own co-creation. He incarnate as one of his own created beings for several reasons. He taught a "good news" gospel for 3+ years before laying his life down and taking it up again. Then he went back to his rightful place. He will return as promised but only for a visit, perhaps when his original gospel transforms a future world.

 

[Sonnet]

To me Jesus is a Paradise creator Son of God, he has a Father and is the Father to his own co-creation. He incarnate as one of his own created beings for several reasons. He taught a "good news" gospel for 3+ years before laying his life down and taking it up again. Then he went back to his rightful place. He will return as promised but only for a visit, perhaps when his original gospel transforms a future world.

So the verses where Jesus speaks of Noah mean what?

And where Paul speaks of Noah in the same way that he speaks of King David?

 

[Sonnet]

Matthew 24:36-39

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

If there was no world wide-flood then why should anyone take Jesus seriously?

 

[Caino]

Lon.... You asked about the 20% figure of Neandertal DNA.
Its simply a dishonest way that evolutionists present data. ....Then gullible people (Caino possibly?) fall for the misrepresentation.

People would wonder how can we only be 20% the same as Neandeertals but 99% the same as chimps.
So...I will try explain.
First of all, we are not 99% similar DNA to chimps. Geneticists can't give an accurate number because there are complete sequences missing from one to the other. It gets complicated trying to compare, when they aren't even sure how it is all read. I have seen numbers of 70% up to 99%...although most now shy away from the high numbers.

Neandertals are 99.7% similar to us. You and I are about 99.9% similar. We can't be 100% similar or I would be you . The .2% difference from us to Neandertals is easily explained in the Biblical model. A few possible things factor into this including a people group who are separated from us by a few thousand years.

Re. the 20% number Caino used....Its really a dishonest way of presenting the data to make people think Neandertals were not fully human. Try think of it as ancestry...You might have 20 Percent Neanderthal Genome..... You might also have 40% European aancestry and another 40% Asian. .

Evolutionists have had to walk back virtually everything they once taught about Neandertals.
Evolutionists taught Neandertals were dimwitted.
...Science shows they were intelligent.
Evolutionists claimed Neandertals couldn't breed with humans
... Science shows they were our ancestors.
Evolutionists claimed Neandertals were inarticulate.
... Science shows they were as capable of speech as we are.
Evolutionists claimed they were carnivores.
...Science shows they ate grains and understood herbs.
Evolutionists claimed they didn't have culture.
...Science shows their humanity (Jewellery, burial with ceremony etc)

Evolutionists try rob ancient man of their humanity .
Science shows God's Word to be true... There is one race...the human race. We are all descendants of Adam and Eve. Christ died for all. His blood was shed for Neandertals..... Pygmies..... Evolutionists.... and Christ even died for someone as unworthy as me. Amazing love... How can it be, that thou my God would die for me?

Weather it's 20 % or 5 % or 1% it's still there. I was pointing out how that DNA would have to have come through Noah according to the flood story of the Hebrews.

BTW, in 1934 UB readers knew that Neanderthals were much more intelligent than believed, they had religion and a concept of an afterlife and that they mated with other humans. We knew this years before it was proven by science. But they weren't the sharpest tools in the shed, more advanced humans destroyed them roughly 40,000 years ago in Europe. Neanderthal DNA was in Eurasia because they mixed with other human groups there. It can be found today because those same descendants are spread out all over the world.

 

[Sonnet]

This the point isn't it - people won't take scripture seriously if the Noah story isn't true.

 

[Sonnet]

Weather it's 20 % or 5 % or 1% it's still there. I was pointing out how that DNA would have to have come through Noah according to the flood story of the Hebrews.

BTW, in 1934 UB readers knew that Neanderthals were much more intelligent than believed, they had religion and a concept of an afterlife and that they mated with other humans. We knew this years before it was proven by science. But they weren't the sharpest tools in the shed, more advanced humans destroyed them roughly 40,000 years ago in Europe. Neanderthal DNA was in Eurasia because they mixed with other human groups there. It can be found today because those same descendants are spread out all over the world.

What is UB?

 

[Caino]

Matthew 24:36-39

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

If there was no world wide-flood then why should anyone take Jesus seriously?

Jesus didn't leave any personal writings behind, the gospels were written years after he left. Sometimes things are misremembered by eyewitnesses. In fact the NT is basically about Jesus according to Paul as his charismatic influence and interpretation was well under way by the times of the writings of the Gospels.

The Gentile world heard about Jesus through Paul, he was revered. After Paul's died the church converted his letters of correspondence into the Word of God, making Paul's words equal to Jesus.

The flood story was an attempt to trace Hebrew blood lines back to Adam and Eve, an ancient Mesopotamian legend grounded in some actual facts. Being unable to do so they decided to drown the whole world in it's own wickedness. They made no claim of wring by inspiration. It wasn't until the return that future generations of priest established these traditions as the Word of God.

God has never and will never regret anything he has done, is doing or will ever do. The characterization that God was disappointed in what he had created, drown the entire world except, of coarse, a special ancestor of the Hebrews, only to have the world in the same mess, is an insult to the Father! It is so obviously a story conceived by Hebrews and for a Hebrew audience. Naturally, Jesus followers believed the story so they had no problem with someone remembering Jesus validating the same.


That's what I think.

 

[Caino]

What is UB?

The Urantia Book It's my religious foundation. We have another thread dedicated to it in the religious section.

 

[Sonnet]

Jesus didn't leave any personal writings behind, the gospels were written years after he left. Sometimes things are misremembered by eyewitnesses. In fact the NT is basically about Jesus according to Paul as his charismatic influence and interpretation was well under way by the times of the writings of the Gospels.

The Gentile world heard about Jesus through Paul, he was revered. After Paul's died the church converted his letters of correspondence into the Word of God, making Paul's words equal to Jesus.

The flood story was an attempt to trace Hebrew blood lines back to Adam and Eve, an ancient Mesopotamian legend grounded in some actual facts. Being unable to do so they decided to drown the whole world in it's own wickedness. They made no claim of wring by inspiration. It wasn't until the return that future generations of priest established these traditions as the Word of God.

God has never and will never regret anything he has done, is doing or will ever do. The characterization that God was disappointed in what he had created, drown the entire world except, of coarse, a special ancestor of the Hebrews, only to have the world in the same mess, is an insult to the Father! It is so obviously a story conceived by Hebrews and for a Hebrew audience. Naturally, Jesus followers believed the story so they had no problem with someone remembering Jesus validating the same.


That's what I think.

Where does your knowledge of Jesus come from?

 

[chrysostom]

After Paul's died the church converted his letters of correspondence into the Word of God, making Paul's words equal to Jesus.......
That's what I think.

think again

 

[Sonnet]

Jesus didn't leave any personal writings behind, the gospels were written years after he left.

If that were a problem then something written between 1924 and 1955 would, presumably, be worse.

 

[Caino]

If that were a problem then something written between 1924 and 1955 would, presumably, be worse.

It was written or rather revealed by celestial beings who were here when Jesus was on the earth. In some cases they have been here since they planted life hundreds of millions of years ago. But let's not get this thread off track.