The false gospel of grace

[way 2 go]

OK but the fold is Israel and other sheep are from outside the fold. I don't understand how you guys do not see that other sheep have to be other than Israel.

only have sheep & goats

Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

 

[Right Divider]

. Because you are lost in your unbelief and the fact that Other sheep will be brought into the fold. You have seen where many have believed that the others in verse 16 0f John 10 are Gentiles, who else would it be. Other Jews in the dispersion? Where is your proof?

So now you FALSELY accuse me of being an unbeliever?

You showed me NOTHING and I showed you much evidence.

• God NEVER called any gentile in the Bible a sheep. FACT.
• Paul NEVER calls any believer a sheep in his epistles. FACT.
• Jesus, during His earthly ministry was sent to HIS PEOPLE, Israel. FACT.
• HIS PEOPLE are called sheep throughout scripture. FACT.

Your behavior is shameful.

Another note that I'm sure that you will ignore. Jesus will GATHER His sheep from the four winds upon His return.

Mat 24:29-31 KJV Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

​

Jer 31:8-11 KJV Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither. (9) They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. (10) Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock. (11) For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.​

 

[JudgeRightly]

. Because you are lost in your unbelief and the fact that Other sheep will be brought into the fold. You have seen where many have believed that the others in verse 16 0f John 10 are Gentiles, who else would it be. Other Jews in the dispersion? Where is your proof?

:think:

I very much doubt it!

Not only is the term "sheep" used consistently throughout the bible as a symble of Israel, (a big reason being because of the Passover Lamb coming through Israel), but also Jesus had not come but to the "the lost sheep of the House of Israel" (Matthew 15:24) and so any referrence to Gentiles here would have been out of place, or, at the very least, cryptic in the extreme (i.e. meaningless to His audience).

It seems much more reasonable to think that Jesus is simply saying that He intends to gather together all the Jews who were scattered all over the place (i.e. outside of Israel). Jesus even used this idea of scattered sheep just a couple a verses before...

John 10:11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.​

And it is a common theme throughout the bible...

Ezekiel 11:16
Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Although I have cast them far off among the Gentiles, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet I shall be a little sanctuary for them in the countries where they have gone.” ’ 17 Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.” ’

Ezekiel 34:20 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord God to them: “Behold, I Myself will judge between the fat and the lean sheep. 21 Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad, 22 therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep. 23 I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them—My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd.

30 Thus they shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people,” says the Lord God.’
31 “You are My flock, the flock of My pasture; you are men, and I am your God,” says the Lord God.

Psalms 44:11
You have given us up like sheep intended for food,
And have scattered us among the nations.

Jeremiah 31:10
“Hear the word of the Lord, O nations,
And declare it in the isles afar off, and say,
‘He who scattered Israel will gather him,
And keep him as a shepherd does his flock.’

Jeremiah 50:17
“Israel is like scattered sheep;
The lions have driven him away.
First the king of Assyria devoured him;
Now at last this Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon has broken his bones.”

18 Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel:
“Behold, I will punish the king of Babylon and his land,
As I have punished the king of Assyria.
19 But I will bring back Israel to his home....

Micah 2:12
“I will surely assemble all of you, O Jacob,
I will surely gather the remnant of Israel;
I will put them together like sheep of the fold,​

 

[Bright Raven]

So now you FALSELY accuse me of being an unbeliever?

You showed me NOTHING and I showed you much evidence.

• God NEVER called any gentile in the Bible a sheep. FACT.
• Paul NEVER calls any believer a sheep in his epistles. FACT.
• Jesus, during His earthly ministry was sent to HIS PEOPLE, Israel. FACT.
• HIS PEOPLE are called sheep throughout scripture. FACT.

Your behavior is shameful.

Another note that I'm sure that you will ignore. Jesus will GATHER His sheep from the four winds upon His return.

Mat 24:29-31 KJV Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

​

Jer 31:8-11 KJV Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither. (9) They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. (10) Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock. (11) For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.​

I did not say you are and unbeliever. Get real dude, even believers can be caught in unbelief.

 

[Right Divider]

I did not say you are and unbeliever. Get real dude, even believers can be caught in unbelief.

My apology for taking it that way.

But... you are the one that has the unbelief problem. Address the arguments and quit with your fallacious reasoning.

 

[Bright Raven]

My apology for taking it that way.

But... your are the one that has the unbelief problem. Address the arguments and quit with your fallacious reasoning.

I think we both have valid points. I have addressed the point and have given you references. You have given no backup for your interpretation. Do you have any?

 

[Right Divider]

I think we both have valid points. I have addressed the point and have given you references. You have given no backup for your interpretation. Do you have any?

There is no sense in my going any further with you. You are fully indoctrinated into the myths of Churchanity and cannot even make a logical argument.

P.S. I don't need a "backup" for my understanding as I have clearly demonstrated it from scripture. You, on the other hand, prefer popularity over facts.

 

[Bright Raven]

There is no sense in my going any further with you. You are fully indoctrinated into the myths of Churchanity and cannot even make a logical argument.

P.S. I don't need a "backup" for my understanding as I have clearly demonstrated it from scripture. You, on the other hand, prefer popularity over facts.

I'm glad for you in that you don't need agreement for your beliefs. My argument has been completely valid and you CANNOT prove that the "others" are not Gentiles. BTW outside the fold means outside Israel. Maybe in the future you will rethink your thoughts and come to the conclusion that maybe others have valid opinions to bring to the table.

 

[Right Divider]

I'm glad for you in that you don't need agreement for your beliefs.

WOW... BR... another FALSEHOOD. A bold-faced lie from one believer about another.... sick, just sick.

I have given you many valid arguments that you have completely ignored.

My argument has been completely valid and you CANNOT prove that the "others" are not Gentiles.

You've continued to make ASSERTIONS, but no arguments.

Note that I don't have to prove that they are not gentiles.... YOU need to prove that they are. Which you have NOT done!

BTW outside the fold means outside Israel.

That's EXACTLY what I have said all along. :kookoo:

Maybe in the future you will rethink your thoughts and come to the conclusion that maybe others have valid opinions to bring to the table.

You are simply bringing invalid opinions.

 

[Bright Raven]

I have given you many valid arguments that you have completely ignored.

valid arguments where? All of your arguments have been addressed and shown to be false. You have in no way shown that the others of John 10:16 are other than Gentiles. The context speaks for itself. The meaning is Gentile!

 

[Right Divider]

valid arguments where?

In many posts that you ignored.

All of your arguments have been addressed and shown to be false.

Another lie.

You have in no way shown that the others of John 10:16 are other than Gentiles. The context speaks for itself. The meaning is Gentile!

Fantasy on your part.

Gentiles are NEVER referred to as SHEEP in scripture. That is a term that God uses for ISRAEL.

Please show us ONE example were God calls a gentile one of His sheep.

 

[DAN P]

....to keep you under the bondage of sin. The false gospel of grace is one that has been cleverly devised for these last days which is almost impossible to differentiate from the true gospel. This is because the false gospel of grace uses exactly the same vocabulary that the true gospel uses with some serious spin doctoring.

Satan has basically invented a false gospel of grace that is every sinner's dream come true. Of course we are all sinners, but evil comes and using this false gospel of grace, tells Christians they are free to sin and delve into iniquity to the point there are now two classes of sinners these days which are 180 degrees apart when it comes to being under the dominion of sin in Satans lair. One class of sinners likes it that way, and the others want out from sin and its dominion.

The devil has designed this false gospel of grace for the first group. The false gospel tells sinners that they are in good and regular standing in their sin, which is what some have always wanted to hear, that Jesus saves us while we keep on sinning and continue happily in its bondage.

The true gospel is the news for every sinner who is fed up with sin and its bondage, and longing to be set free from its penalty and power and that gospel is sin shall not have dominion over us. When we accept Christ we do it with the understanding of what sin has done to us, its true price and the comprehension of its ultimate result of eternal death. We dont want its corruption to ourselves and its destructive influence over us, so we come to Christ who cleanses us from its wages and its dominion. That is the true gospel, to be alive in Christ not dead in sin, to be set free by Him from sins wages and so that sin is no longer our master, destroying and corrupting us with its evil.....

Scripture is clear on what the true gospel is, not a license to sin but a way to become free from sin and iniquity..

Romans 6:1-14

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Hi H , and if there is no GRACE , then explain that death reigned from ADAM to MOSES ( Rom 5:14 ) HOW WERE people saved ??

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Gentiles are NEVER referred to as SHEEP in scripture. That is a term that God uses for ISRAEL.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Mt.25:31-34).​

Do you deny that there will be Gentiles from "all nations" who will inherit the kingdom? If not, then you cannot deny that the Lord Jesus refers to those Gentiles as "sheep."

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi H , and if there is no GRACE , then explain that death reigned from ADAM to MOSES ( Rom 5:14 ) HOW WERE people saved ??

The way that Noah was saved:

"By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith" (Heb.11:7).​

And the way that Abraham was saved:

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:3-4).​

 

[heir]

....to keep you under the bondage of sin.

The sin/sins issue was settled by the cross when God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them (2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV)/when Christ died on the cross for our sins after being made sin for us, though He knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him (by trusting Him believing the gospel of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV).

The only things keeping you in bondage today are religious men and trying to keep the law for righteousness.

 

[heir]

And yet the main theme that people are told is the law is done away with, grace takes care of your sins, don't worry its all fine to keep on sinning.

Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


as we are in the but now where the righteousness of God without the law is manifested...

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Where is the righteousness of God revealed today? It is revealed in the gospel of Christ!

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

That is Paul's gospel declared in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Paul preaches that grace through the faith of Jesus Christ's faith to go to the cross for us, die for our sins and God raising Him from the dead is the work of our salvation!

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Trust the Lord believing it (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) to be saved and sealed (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)!

 

[heir]

And yet the main theme that people are told is the law is done away with, grace takes care of your sins, don't worry its all fine to keep on sinning.

All of my trespasses are forgiven (Colossians 2:13 KJV). Yours aren't?

 

[heir]

Christ came for all who will accept His free gift, not just the Jews.

For us, He came to die for our sins, be buried and raised again the third day for our justification (Romans 4:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) which was a mystery (Romans 16:25-27 KJV) and Paul (God's chosen vessel to us Acts 22:21 KJV, Romans 11:13 KJV) tells us why (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV).

All of the Bible is FOR us, but it's not all TO us!

 

[heir]

The term "other sheep" refers to the Gentiles (Isaiah 56:6-8 and Ephesians 3:6). After Jesus death and resurrection the good news went out into the world, and Christ's sheep among the Gentiles responded to the Good Shepards voice. All who were chosen for eternal life became believers (Acts 13:48).

We Gentiles, in time past of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John even all the way to Acts 19 can be shown as Gentiles "at that time" being "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" according to Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV so please refrain from using the mystery of the gospel (Ephesians 3:6 KJV) as proof text of John when Ephesians 3 is a late mystery revealed to and through Paul (who was exclusively given the dispensation of the grace of God to us) which was before not made known to the sons of God, unsearchable and hid in God before Paul. Thank you.

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

In your quest to put yourself back there in John, you are failing to rightly divbide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV). Come on, BR.

 

[JudgeRightly]

We Gentiles, in time past of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John even all the way to Acts 19 can be shown as Gentiles "at that time" being "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" according to Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV so please refrain from using the mystery of the gospel (Ephesians 3:6 KJV) as proof text of John when Ephesians 3 is a late mystery revealed to and through Paul (who was exclusively given the dispensation of the grace of God to us) which was before not made known to the sons of God, unsearchable and hid in God before Paul. Thank you.

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

In your quest to put yourself back there in John, you are failing to rightly divbide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV). Come on, BR.

:first: