the church

[jsanford108]

We who are saved are IN HIS BODY and those who die before he comes will be coming with him.


1 Thessalonians 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.



If you are insinuating that a building is the body of Christ then you really are in a bad way.



You refuse to believe what is clearly written, and that is Christ's body is the Church.

Obviously the Body is not a building. Metaphysical is a fundamental nature of being.

You refuse to believe what Christ clearly says. Christ says His Body is the "Bread of Life."

Your logic would conclude that the church is the bread of life.


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[God's Truth]

Obviously the Body is not a building. Metaphysical is a fundamental nature of being.

You refuse to believe what Christ clearly says. Christ says His Body is the "Bread of Life."

Your logic would conclude that the church is the bread of life.


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When a person is saved, he is put in Christ's body in heaven, and Jesus lives in that saved person's heart.

You should believe Paul who says Jesus body is the church.

 

[jsanford108]

When a person is saved, he is put in Christ's body in heaven, and Jesus lives in that saved person's heart.

You should believe Paul who says Jesus body is the church.

You should believe Christ, who says His Body is the Bread.

Seriously though, try to explain Christ's words from the Last Supper.


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[God's Truth]

You should believe Christ, who says His Body is the Bread.

Seriously though, try to explain Christ's words from the Last Supper.

Jesus is the Word of God, John 1:1. The Word became flesh, John 1:14. Jesus’ words are life, John 6:63. Jesus’ body is the bread, the bread from heaven, John 6:33. Matthew 4:4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.“

If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever, John 6:51. This bread is Jesus’ flesh, which he will give for the life of the world, John 6:53.

Unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, we have no life in us. Jesus tells us the truth, if anyone obeys his word, he will never see death, John 8:51.

When we believe in Jesus’ shed blood, we come into the blood covenant with God, Mark 14:24. We believe and this believing is as drinking his blood.

To obey Jesus, to do what the bread from heaven says, this is eating, this is eating the bread from heaven, and it is eating his flesh. Obeying Jesus’ word is equivalent to eating his flesh.

Luke 11:3 Give us each day our daily bread.

Jesus says for us to pray, give us each day our daily bread. That is having Jesus every day, his words, his teachings. We are to eat Jesus every day, which is to obey every day.

John 6:58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Did you hear what Jesus said? Jesus says he who “feeds on this bread.” That is not a onetime thing. We are to eat every day. We are to obey every day.

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

When we are hungry, hungry for God’s truth, we come to Jesus. Jesus says, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.” John 6:51

When we come to Jesus, believe, and obey, Jesus gives us water to drink that is, Jesus gives us the Holy Spirit, John 4:10; 14; John 7:38; 39.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body–whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free–and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

John 6:27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.” The seal of approval is the Holy Spirit.

When we celebrate the Lord’s Supper, it is in remembrance to Jesus dying for us.
For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.1 Corinthians 11:26.

Read what Jesus' disciples said to him...

John 4:31 Meanwhile his disciples urged him, "Rabbi, eat something."


32 But he said to them, "I have food to eat that you know nothing about."

33 Then his disciples said to each other, "Could someone have brought him food?"

34 "My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

Did you read that? Jesus says his food is to DO the will of him who sent me and to FINISH HIS WORK.

We are to do God's will. God's will is that we obey Jesus' teachings.

Now, that proves we eat the flesh of Jesus when we do what Jesus says to do.

That is how we eat the bread from heaven, the bread of life.

We have to eat every day. We have to obey every day.

 

[God's Truth]

Now you should believe Paul who plainly says Jesus is the church.

Nowhere anywhere does Jesus say the church is a building, or Peter, or a denomination.

Jesus is the church and he is the one who went to hell and the gates of hell could not keep him there, for he rose again.

 

[jsanford108]

Now you should believe Paul who plainly says Jesus is the church.

Nowhere anywhere does Jesus say the church is a building, or Peter, or a denomination.

Jesus is the church and he is the one who went to hell and the gates of hell could not keep him there, for he rose again.

You make several good points. But why would Jesus come back, as stated in Revelation, for his "body?" That creates a metaphorical and continuity error. How? Because Christ ascended body and spirit into heaven. Knowing this, saying that his Body is the church creates a paradoxical error.

Also, if all Christ meant by "eat my flesh" was belief, why did he not correct those who turned away in John 6? These people had been following Christ, believing he was the Son of God. But when he says "unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no inheritance with me," they asked how this could be so. Christ said it a second time, and they left him. If he was just talking about belief, why would he not have told them. Every time Christ speaks figuratively, be that metaphorically or in parables, preceding or following verses tell us. However, in John 6 and at the Last Supper, no such indications can be found.


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[God's Truth]

You make several good points. But why would Jesus come back, as stated in Revelation, for his "body?"

Could you give the exact scripture?

That creates a metaphorical and continuity error. How? Because Christ ascended body and spirit into heaven. Knowing this, saying that his Body is the church creates a paradoxical error.

Paul says that His body is the church.
You are arguing against Paul.
Couldn't you just humble yourself and think you are the one in error?

Also, if all Christ meant by "eat my flesh" was belief,

Eat my flesh is obeying his words.

why did he not correct those who turned away in John 6? These people had been following Christ, believing he was the Son of God. But when he says "unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no inheritance with me," they asked how this could be so. Christ said it a second time, and they left him. If he was just talking about belief, why would he not have told them. Every time Christ speaks figuratively, be that metaphorically or in parables, preceding or following verses tell us. However, in John 6 and at the Last Supper, no such indications can be found.

Jesus explained what he meant but the people left him before they could learn.

 

[jsanford108]

Could you give the exact scripture?

Sure thing. Revelation 3:12, "...Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife...."
Revelation 21, several mentions of the "bride," throughout the chapter.
Here is a link to Wikipedia (I know not the most trustworthy source) that identifies the church as the "bride of Christ," not his "body."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_of_Christ
This illustrates my point, that the church is not synonymous with the "body of Christ."

As far as "humbling" myself because I am in error, there is no need. Because I am not in error. I have provided sufficient proof that throughout Revelation, in the Gospels, etc that the "Body" of Christ is not the church. You have provided a single verse. I have addressed that verse, providing a sufficient explanation that would align with both Colossians, as well as the words of Christ in the Gospels.
Now, in the spirit of fairness, here is a link that you would have been wise to research, as it does help defend your position.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_of_Christ
Note however, that the opening line restates my argument; that the Body of Christ refers to the Last Supper. Notice that my explanation is homogeneous with both descriptions. Whereas your argument barely fits within the second meaning.

Lastly, if "eating his flesh is obeying his words," and "the people left before they could learn," why did Christ not stop the plethora of people from leaving? Especially if it was a misunderstanding. And especially if he wasn't finished explaining (which is never even hinted at in the Gospels). It takes some mental gymnastics to apply your reasoning into the Gospel. My reasoning is simple deduction from the basic literal written words.

My argument is once again easily found within the Bible. You are basing your arguments on one verse, and an application of theoretical doctrine into passages that have no evidence of such doctrines.

 

[God's Truth]

Sure thing. Revelation 3:12, "...Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife...."
Revelation 21, several mentions of the "bride," throughout the chapter.
Here is a link to Wikipedia (I know not the most trustworthy source) that identifies the church as the "bride of Christ," not his "body."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_of_Christ
This illustrates my point, that the church is not synonymous with the "body of Christ."

As far as "humbling" myself because I am in error, there is no need. Because I am not in error. I have provided sufficient proof that throughout Revelation, in the Gospels, etc that the "Body" of Christ is not the church. You have provided a single verse. I have addressed that verse, providing a sufficient explanation that would align with both Colossians, as well as the words of Christ in the Gospels.
Now, in the spirit of fairness, here is a link that you would have been wise to research, as it does help defend your position.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_of_Christ
Note however, that the opening line restates my argument; that the Body of Christ refers to the Last Supper. Notice that my explanation is homogeneous with both descriptions. Whereas your argument barely fits within the second meaning.

Lastly, if "eating his flesh is obeying his words," and "the people left before they could learn," why did Christ not stop the plethora of people from leaving? Especially if it was a misunderstanding. And especially if he wasn't finished explaining (which is never even hinted at in the Gospels). It takes some mental gymnastics to apply your reasoning into the Gospel. My reasoning is simple deduction from the basic literal written words.

My argument is once again easily found within the Bible. You are basing your arguments on one verse, and an application of theoretical doctrine into passages that have no evidence of such doctrines.

Why speak to you about it when you go against what is clearly written?

The scripture plainly says that Jesus' body is the church.

 

[jsanford108]

Why speak to you about it when you go against what is clearly written?

The scripture plainly says that Jesus' body is the church.

Scripture plainly says that Christ says "This is my body," while holding the bread of the last supper. (Luke 22). You are the one arguing against what is right there in the Gospel. You must be a Gospel denier or something. Are you a Mid-Acts Dispensationalist? Non-trinitarian?

 

[chrysostom]

He broke it
-and-
gave it to them with the command
-that-
we do this in memory of Him

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

He broke it
-and-
gave it to them with the command
-that-
we do this in memory of Him

Are you an apostle?

 

[chrysostom]

the church teaches:
-redemption
-repentance
-forgiveness
-grace
-work
-mercy

 

[Charity]

DNA = soul... the son stands up in the fathers stead. the child, punished ACCORDING TO THE fathers sin, time is the judge, TIME TELLS THE TRUTH. FLESH AND BONE PERISH A NEW BODY IS BORN, WAX'S STRONG IN THE STALL, HIS FATHER PROMISE, HIS FATHERS WILL, A NEW BOODY TO FINSISH THE WORK, IF HE DOSE EVIL> HE SHALL BE CHASTENED BY THE HAND OF MEN, YET 1000 YEA®S LATTER, THE SCRIPT CONDEMNED, THE ROMAN EMPIRE SO EASY A KILL, USED EVERY WORD TO DO EVIL.

 

[God's Truth]

Scripture plainly says that Christ says "This is my body," while holding the bread of the last supper. (Luke 22). You are the one arguing against what is right there in the Gospel. You must be a Gospel denier or something. Are you a Mid-Acts Dispensationalist? Non-trinitarian?

The bread is symbolic of being Jesus' body.

Jesus explained that when we eat his flesh it is SPIRITUAL.

Jesus' body is the church. That is what the scriptures say.

Colossians 1:24
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions for the sake of His body, which is the church.

Ephesians 1:22 And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

 

[jsanford108]

The bread is symbolic of being Jesus' body.

Jesus explained that when we eat his flesh it is SPIRITUAL.

Jesus' body is the church. That is what the scriptures say.

Colossians 1:24
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions for the sake of His body, which is the church.

Ephesians 1:22 And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

First off, I would like to apologize for asking if you were a non-trinitarian, or Gospel denier. Having interacted with you since that post, I know more now. I apologize if that sounded harsh and insincere in any capacity.

Second, examine John 6. Christ says "unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you have no inheritance with me." He mentions this several times. The people murmured to themselves, asking how this could be so, and Jesus never said "I was being symbolic." Nor does the Gospel writer John add the clarification. Every time that Christ speaks in a parable or on a topic that was not fully understood at the moment, John elaborates on it. John adds clarification and denotes when a story or situation is a parable. It is always very clear. But not once is a clarification made in this passage on Christ's words being "symbolic" or a "parable."

Also, look further in John 6. "The bread that I will give for the life of the world is My flesh." Christ goes on later adding, "because My flesh is real food and My blood is real drink."

After having said this, the people left Him! Would Christ allow people to walk away over a simple misunderstanding? He had never done this before, nor after. Why would He allow it this time? The answer is simple. They did not have faith and could not fathom the reality of Christ offering literal flesh and blood for consumption, for eternal life.

As for Christ's body being the Church, I am not in any capacity disagreeing with the Scriptures you provide. However, the church is not Christ's literal body, whereas the Lord's Supper is. The church being Christ's body is a mystical relationship. Hence, the term "mystical body of Christ" being attributed to the church and the faithful.

 

[God's Truth]

First off, I would like to apologize for asking if you were a non-trinitarian, or Gospel denier. Having interacted with you since that post, I know more now. I apologize if that sounded harsh and insincere in any capacity.

Thank you so very much. I definitely accept your apology.
Just so you know though, I am not a trinitarian doctrine believer. I do believe that there are three, and that Jesus is God, but I do not believe they are distinct, different. I believe there is only one Divine Spirit, and that the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all the same Spirit.

Second, examine John 6. Christ says "unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you have no inheritance with me." He mentions this several times. The people murmured to themselves, asking how this could be so, and Jesus never said "I was being symbolic." Nor does the Gospel writer John add the clarification.

Many Disciples Desert Jesus
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

Did you read that?
Jesus said the flesh accounts for nothing. He is explaining that he was not telling them to literally eat his flesh, he even says what he is saying is SPIRIT.

Every time that Christ speaks in a parable or on a topic that was not fully understood at the moment, John elaborates on it. John adds clarification and denotes when a story or situation is a parable. It is always very clear. But not once is a clarification made in this passage on Christ's words being "symbolic" or a "parable."

As you can see from the scripture above that I just posted, we see that Jesus explained it to the disciples that did not leave him.

Also, look further in John 6. "The bread that I will give for the life of the world is My flesh." Christ goes on later adding, "because My flesh is real food and My blood is real drink."

After having said this, the people left Him! Would Christ allow people to walk away over a simple misunderstanding? He had never done this before, nor after. Why would He allow it this time? The answer is simple. They did not have faith and could not fathom the reality of Christ offering literal flesh and blood for consumption, for eternal life.

Jesus’ blood was shed on the cross, once. The Catholic church believes their priests can cause the wine and bread to change and they call it a sacrifice; however, again, Jesus’ blood was shed once.

By one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy, see Hebrews 10:14. By “one sacrifice,” not a daily or weekly sacrifice of turning the wafers into the body of Christ, over and over again, by many priests all over the world.

As for Christ's body being the Church, I am not in any capacity disagreeing with the Scriptures you provide. However, the church is not Christ's literal body, whereas the Lord's Supper is. The church being Christ's body is a mystical relationship. Hence, the term "mystical body of Christ" being attributed to the church and the faithful.

The scriptures plainly say that Jesus put us in him, and that we are part of his body.

1 Corinthians 6:17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Colossians 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Colossians 3:3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

Colossians 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

 

[chrysostom]

the church is in new jerusalem

 

[chrysostom]

the temple was in old jerusalem

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

the church is in new jerusalem

:chuckle: