the church

HisServant

New member
he is following the Pope blindly is all... and he is pretty ignorant of scripture and the behavior of early christians.

In summation, he is the embodiment of a dumb christian.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
he is following the Pope blindly is all... and he is pretty ignorant of scripture and the behavior of early christians.

In summation, he is the embodiment of a dumb christian.

the pope says we should be concerned about abortion, divorce, and same sex marriage -
we have you on record saying the opposite
 

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
That's a very good question.

With a group of elders following the Holy Spirit and living in brotherly love, it shouldn't be an issue very often. I'd expect a group of elders to remain in prayer and discussion until some sort of rough consensus emerges. Elders who remain on the outside of the consensus should submit to what the Spirit seems to be saying through the Body of Christ.

Of course, that's all a big "should". Given an impasse, a vote among the elders is an option. Given an irreconcilable even split, I'm not sure. The early church wasn't above drawing lots to determine the will of God.

I'm very new to this study, and hope my previous post reflects that. I've been under the typical Pastor-focused church structure for my whole Christian life, so it's new to explore this.

Beyond the question of final authority in dispute, do you read the passages I referenced differently?
lets start at the bottom about some in this group. RCC claims all protestants are "outsiders" of thier RCC denomination. the RCC claims outsiders are not saved. that means the RCC tells protestants they are going to Hell if they don't follow the pope as a holy man and the papel system designed by men.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
lets start at the bottom about some in this group. RCC claims all protestants are "outsiders" of thier RCC denomination. the RCC claims outsiders are not saved. that means the RCC tells protestants they are going to Hell if they don't follow the pope as a holy man and the papel system designed by men.

this is not true
 

HisServant

New member
the pope says we should be concerned about abortion, divorce, and same sex marriage -
we have you on record saying the opposite

I am concerned, but I don't think it has a political solution. The solution is to concentrate our efforts on winning souls for Christ and changing peoples minds.

Making it illegal is anti-Christ behavior.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
I am concerned, but I don't think it has a political solution. The solution is to concentrate our efforts on winning souls for Christ and changing peoples minds.

Making it illegal is anti-Christ behavior.

should all churches teach that abortion, divorce, and same sex marriage is wrong?
 

HisServant

New member
should all churches teach that abortion, divorce, and same sex marriage is wrong?

Yes
No, divorce and remarriage is permissible in some circumstances.
Yes

Teaching is one thing, legislating it is the last resort of a lazy coward.

FYI, Your church does divorce all the time... they just give it another name.. annulment.

The RCC has made quite a lot of money making children bastards over the centuries.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Yes
No, divorce and remarriage is permissible in some circumstances.
Yes

Teaching is one thing, legislating it is the last resort of a lazy coward.

FYI, Your church does divorce all the time... they just give it another name.. annulment.

The RCC has made quite a lot of money making children bastards over the centuries.

so why don't all denominations teach that?
 

HisServant

New member
The legacy of lazy scholarship by the RCC and the Anglican Church.

As more and more people research and understand the differences between divorce and putting away as it related to the Jewish Culture that Jesus and the Apostles were addressing, the intent of scripture becomes more clear.

But if you try and interpret scripture based on European and new world sensibilities you are doomed to failure.

IMNSHO, the RCC tried to role over all of Roman Society from the cradle to the grave, hence we have all the exclusively Roman sacraments to keep its adherence in line and keep looking to the church for guidance.

As archaeology, linguistics and history sciences get better, we are more able to pierce through the confusion of Romanism and better understand the audience of scripture.. therefore we can interpret it better.
 

HisServant

New member
The last issue is one of human nature... people seem to not be content with following God and the Holy Spirit and want a human to look up to for some reason.

I had a discussion about how Israel was a theocracy for centuries and had no single leader.. they kept complaining that they had no King and god eventually cursed Israel with a king.

People have the same weakness when it comes to religion... they don't want to follow the Holy Spirit so they look to mortal men to fill that void.. and all mortal men do is take advantage of you.
 

DavidK

New member
so what is the consensus on abortion, divorce, and same sex marriage?

That depends a lot on what group of people you are talking about. I anticipate that you are looking for agreement on these three issues throughout the world-wide Church, hence the need for one mortal person to be the authority.

The picture I've seen of the Church so far in my study leads me to believe that the Church was largely structured locally. The elders of a city governed the Church in that city, hence letters being written to "The Church in X City". The apostles who planted those churches did, obviously, exhort and teach them, but I don't see any evidence so far that they continued raising up new apostles for that inter-city function after Paul was called by Christ.

So that means, given the model I described earlier, it would be up to the elders of a given city to come together to decide the issues of abortion, divorce, and same sex marriage. Since that model is not being followed anywhere I know, there's no way for us to look and see what the consensus would be or whether consensus would be split.

I can look at the loose group of churches in my city that have fellowship together, and see a pretty clear consensus on all three issues, and no evidence that it is because any one person made a decree on any of those three issues. I'm aware that there are other churches who identify as Christian that would take very different views on them, but I have an inkling that all three issues would point to deeper doctrinal problems that would place some of those churches outside the body of Christ altogether.

You've given me a lot of questions, but I haven't seen you answer mine. Beyond the difficulty of not having someone to have the final word in disputes, do you see anything inaccurate in my description of how I see the governance of the church described in the Bible?
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
I'm aware that there are other churches who identify as Christian that would take very different views on them, but I have an inkling that all three issues would point to deeper doctrinal problems that would place some of those churches outside the body of Christ altogether.

who would determine that? -
surely you are aware of the church councils throughout history that fixed certain beliefs -
I certainly don't see your version of church government as described in the bible
 
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