The Case Against Universal Healthcare

[Granite]

Like I'd posted, he chose to relocate himself to Taiwan, where the socialized healthcare system "tops the expat health care charts."



Sounds like Stripe made a good choice in moving to a country where he can take advantage of such a good national healthcare plan for expats.

Well look at that! Nice coverage if you can get it.:chuckle:

 

[PureX]

Like I'd posted, he chose to relocate himself to Taiwan, where the socialized healthcare system "tops the expat health care charts."

Sounds like Stripe made a good choice in moving to a country where he can take advantage of such a good national healthcare plan for expats.

Oh, but I'm sure he refuses to take advantage of it, based on his (every man for himself) economic principals, an all.

 

[aikido7]

In the past I've always been an advocate for universal healthcare here on TOL as many of you know. Coming from a country which has universal healthcare, it baffles me that so many would be against such a system.

Instead of presenting the case here as to why I believe in universal healthcare, I thought it would make a more interesting thread to invite those of you who disagree with universal healthcare to present your case as to why you believe it is wrong.

What do you believe about the principle of healthcare which is free to all at point of need? Why do you have that belief? Do you believe that those who cannot afford it should be entitled to less healthcare than those who can? What do you believe is the correct Christian view on it?

I think those that take Jesus seriously are for universal health care.

If that be blasphemous, so be it!

 

[Tambora]

I think those that take Jesus seriously are for universal health care.

If that be blasphemous, so be it!

Jesus is the only one that can provide universal healthcare.
If you think a government can get it done properly, you are way too naive.

 

[Granite]

Jesus is the only one that can provide universal healthcare.
If you think a government can get it done properly, you are way too naive.

Some would say Jesus' results leave something to be desired as well.

 

[Tambora]

Some would say Jesus' results leave something to be desired as well.

Some would, yes.

 

[Stripe]

:mock: aikido

 

[genuineoriginal]

I think those that take Jesus seriously are for universal health care.

Jesus did not support universal health care.

Jesus spoke about individuals being merciful towards other individuals in need.

Luke 10:3-37 30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. 31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. 33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, 34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. 36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? 37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.​

 

[Granite]

He spoke about caring for the needy and condemned those arrogant enough or greedy enough to oppose such compassion.

 

[genuineoriginal]

He spoke about caring for the needy and condemned those arrogant enough or greedy enough to oppose such compassion.

He spoke about individuals caring for needy individuals, not a faceless government providing a universal service for faceless masses.

 

[Granite]

He spoke about individuals caring for needy individuals, not a faceless government providing a universal service for faceless masses.

And what is so terrible about the masses being faceless, out of curiosity? Seems like a weird, semi-snide attitude.

He told those with the means and power to do so to help. Not hold the needy in contempt.

 

[Tinark]

:yawn:

When you morons have a rational argument, wake me up. Pretending my ideas can be ignored because of where I live is just plain stupid — par for the course for you lot.

So you want to abolish a system that is near the top in the world in Taiwan and covers everyone for one that costs twice as much, leaves the poor/needy to scramble to find charity while sick or suffering without medical care all together, requires everyone to deal with a massive headache of insurance companies and making sure they are paying their legally obligated amount with the endless amounts of fine print and inevitable denials for payment, and leads to massive numbers of medical bill related bankruptcies every year. Brilliant plan! :kookoo:

 

[Tinark]

The island offers the cheapest and best medical facilities of any country in the world, according to a new survey..

Stripe tells me that is impossible - it has to be more expensive and less efficient because it is government run. It just must be so, for Jesus tells him so.

 

[Tinark]

He spoke about individuals caring for needy individuals, not a faceless government providing a universal service for faceless masses.

Once again, for the 1000th time, it doesn't need to be the government providing the services. There would still be doctors, nurses, and technicians, individuals last I checked, providing the care, who wouldn't be hired by the government but rather running and providing their own facilities. The government would be paying them for the services rendered just like what happens with Medicare.

 

[Granite]

So you want to abolish a system that is near the top in the world in Taiwan and covers everyone for one that costs twice as much, leaves the poor/needy to scramble to find charity while sick or suffering without medical care all together, requires everyone to deal with a massive headache of insurance companies and making sure they are paying their legally obligated amount with the endless amounts of fine print and inevitable denials for payment, and leads to massive numbers of medical bill related bankruptcies every year. Brilliant plan! :kookoo:

I'm quite sure the chap doesn't take advantage of the system whatsoever. Because that would make him a raging hypocrite.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Once again, for the 1000th time, it doesn't need to be the government providing the services. There would still be doctors, nurses, and technicians, individuals last I checked, providing the care, who wouldn't be hired by the government but rather running and providing their own facilities. The government would be paying them for the services rendered just like what happens with Medicare.

Have you seen what happens to people with Medicaid?
(note: Medicaid, not Medicare)

 

[Stripe]

So you want to abolish a system that is near the top in the world in Taiwan and covers everyone for one that costs twice as much, leaves the poor/needy to scramble to find charity while sick or suffering without medical care all together, requires everyone to deal with a massive headache of insurance companies and making sure they are paying their legally obligated amount with the endless amounts of fine print and inevitable denials for payment, and leads to massive numbers of medical bill related bankruptcies every year. Brilliant plan! :kookoo:

Poisoning the well is another logical fallacy.

 

[Granite]

Have you seen what happens to people with Medicaid?
(note: Medicaid, not Medicare)

You mean like the 35,000 people in my state who wouldn't have coverage without it?

 

[Tinark]

Poisoning the well is another logical fallacy.

You blokes are on your own. :wave2:

Uh no, all of these are facts as demonstrated by those countries without UHC and are inherent downsides without UHC. The only one you could possibly dispute is the "costs twice as much" one, which may be unique to the circumstances of the United States, but you've offered absolutely nothing more than "I have a deeply held faith that government makes it higher cost and less efficient", despite the empirical evidence showing no such thing with all the other UHC countries having reasonable cost with reasonably good outcomes, brilliantly demonstrated by the cheap cost (literally only 30% is spent in Taiwan, per person, compared to the United States) and high quality in the country you currently live in. It's like you are plugging your ears and going "la la la".

 

[Granite]

Uh no, all of these are facts as demonstrated by those countries without UHC and are inherent downsides without UHC. The only one you could possibly dispute is the "costs twice as much" one, which may be unique to the circumstances of the United States, but you've offered absolutely nothing more than "I have a deeply held faith that government makes it higher cost and less efficient", despite the empirical evidence showing no such thing with all the other UHC countries having reasonable cost with reasonably good outcomes, brilliantly demonstrated by the cheap cost (literally only 30% is spent in Taiwan, per person, compared to the United States) and high quality in the country you currently live in. It's like you are plugging your ears and going "la la la".

Seeing firsthand how such a system works well and still denigrating it just clinches for me why I put him on ignore in the first place: Stripe is fundamentally and consistently dishonest. He enjoys the fruits of a system he trashes, then tries to speak to authority about American affairs he knows nothing about. When you know better and still act to the contrary, you're without any excuse.