Brother Ducky
New member
Five pages and 60+ posts and no real attempt to actually refute the doctrine.
The Calvinist Doctrine of Total Depravity, Totally Refuted
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Brother Ducky
New member
Why, yes. Again stock phrases having nothing to do with the post. Deal with the verses that support Total Depravity or develop an anthropology that shows the contrary.
You have done nothing to support your position.
You want to believe that God is unjust.
God so loves the world that he sends his only begotten Son into the world to atone for the sins of the world, John 3:16.
But being the mean, cruel, unjust God that you think that he is he hides it from some so that he can condemn them to hell.
beloved57
Well-known member
You teach that God is Unjust, that He punishes the Righteous in hell for nothing! The righteous are any for whom Christ died Rom 5:19 !
Brother Ducky
New member
You are sadly mistaken. I neither believe nor want to believe that God is unjust. John 3:16 is a great verse for Reformed folk. Those who believe because they were appointed [Acts 13:48]. Those who were not so appointed do not believe.
Of course you believe that God is unjust. You just admitted it.
bsmitts
New member
The necessity of the new birth grows out of the incapacity of the natural man to "see" or "enter" into" the Kingdom of God. However gifted, moral, or refined he may be, the natural man is absolutely blind to spiritual truth and impotent to enter the kingdom; for he can neither obey, understand, nor please God (John 3:3). This new birth is not some type of worthless self reformation, but rather a creative act of the Holy Spirit. The condition of the new birth is faith in Christ crucified. Through the new birth, the believer becomes a member of the family of God and a partaker of the divine nature, the life of Christ himself.
beloved57
Well-known member
Faith pleases God Hebrew 11:6 and the natural man can't please God Rom 8:8 ,so Faith can't be the condition of New Birth, but the New Birth the condition of Faith! So you have contradicted yourself!
The entrance into the Kingdom of God is by hearing and believing the Gospel.
On the day of Pentecost 8,000 Jews, some of who had participated in the crucifion of Christ, Acts 2:36, heard and believed the Gospel for the very first time, Acts 2:41.
It was the Gospel that gave birth to the New Testament church and is still the means by which people enter the Kingdom of God today.
"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.
Brother Ducky
New member
I believe that if you look at the post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Ducky View Post
You are sadly mistaken. I neither believe nor want to believe that God is unjust. John 3:16 is a great verse for Reformed folk. Those who believe because they were appointed [Acts 13:48]. Those who were not so appointed do not believe.
you will clearly see that I do not believe that God is unjust.
Now, Mr. Pate, did you inadvertently misread the post or did you willingly with malice aforethought lie about what I believe?
As long as you believe that God appoints some to salvation and the rest to hell, you will continue to believe that God is unjust.
It is not possible for you to have saving faith if you believe that God is unjust.
beloved57
Well-known member
Thats you, you teach that God shall punish the righteous, made righteous by Christ's Obedience Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Brother Ducky
New member
I am quite sure that I do not believe that God is unjust.
What eternal fate does every human being who is also not God deserve on the basis of their being a sinful human being. The answer is, of course Hell. No one has gone, is going or will go to hell that does not deserve it. If God, in his mercy chooses to save some, is he unfair? Of course not. That he chooses some, and not all is not being unfair.
I am told by those who read Greek better than I [or anyone who reads Greek at all] the structure of I Corinthians 12:29-30 is looking for an answer of "No." So, if I read you correctly, God is unjust for not giving all of the Spiritual gifts to everyone indiscriminately? He could have given all Spiritual gifts to all, but he chose to do otherwise.
All who have come to Christ as repentant sinners are sealed with the Holy Spirit and all have gifts of the Holy Spirit, but they are not according to your fleshy ideas.
No one deserves to go to hell. All are born after Adam. It is not their fault that they are sinners, its Adam's fault.
If God predestinated one of these sinners to eternal life and one of these sinners to hell he would be unjust, plain and simple. This is why no one has been predestinated.
Nanja
Well-known member
Yes, they have!
It's clearly evident that you do not believe all of the scriptures.
Being chosen in Christ Eph. 1:4 and being predestinated to the adoption of sons
by Jesus Christ to Himself Eph. 1:5, and obtaining an inheritance Eph. 1:11,
incorruptible reserved in Heaven 1 Pet. 1:4 is certainly being predestinated to Heaven.
No question about it!
But your blinded mind cannot perceive it 2 Cor. 4:3-4 KJV!
The Gospel is hid from you.
You are in a lost state!
Scripture attests to the fact that God does whatever He pleases:
Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing:
and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven,
and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand,
or say unto him, What doest thou?
You are just a mere inhabitant of the earth, reputed as nothing.
Job 23:13-14
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
v.14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.
These verses are proof that God does not desire all men without exception to be saved, but yet they are not.
How do you have the audacity to question what God does!
~~~~~
Brother Ducky
New member
You seem to have missed the point. Do all have all of the gifts, and if not, according to your definition God is unjust. Me? I do not have a problem, but you do.
If no one deserves to go to hell, then none would go to hell.
None of you Calvinist are able come up with one scripture that says God has predestinated someone to heaven or to hell. The reason for this is because there is no scripture that says that he has.
The word "Predestination" only appears in the Bible 4 times. None of the 4 words are associated with anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell. it appears to me that you are desperate to believe a lie.
The words "faith" and "believe" appear in the Bible hundreds of times. It is about faith and believing, not predestination. You apparently cannot have faith and believe, so instead you want to believe that you have been predestinated.
Jesus said that if you don't have faith in him you will perish, John 3:16.
The word "Predestination" only appears in the Bible 4 times. None of the 4 words are associated with anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell. it appears to me that you are desperate to believe a lie.
The words "faith" and "believe" appear in the Bible hundreds of times. It is about faith and believing, not predestination. You apparently cannot have faith and believe, so instead you want to believe that you have been predestinated.
Jesus said that if you don't have faith in him you will perish, John 3:16.
Cedarbay
New member
Lutherans DO NOT considered themselves Reformed. They consider themselves Lutherans.
Calvin and Luther were in complete agreement about justification by faith, through grace, in Christ, alone.
Luther and Calvin differed most on Christology.
Cedarbay
New member
Let's put this is the glorious frame of reference in which the Lord meant it.
Jesus makes it clear that those whom the Father gives Him will be saved.
John 6:37