SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Mt24B and such further discredit those seeking to codify red dirt prophecies, leading
them into a polarization against the NHNE/Gospel event...as Holford explained.
ECT The Broken Record of MAD
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Mt24B and such further discredit those seeking to codify red dirt prophecies, leading
them into a polarization against the NHNE/Gospel event...as Holford explained.
The NT was not in effect until the death of the Testator.
Right Divider
Body part
Yes, that is true.
So you're confirming that, when Jesus sent the twelve to preach the gospel of the kingdom to Israel that it did not include preaching the cross.
Thanks for confirming the differences between the gospels.
When and who was the death that caused the old covenant to become effective?
Hebrews 9:15-20 NET And so he is the mediator of a new covenant so that those who are called may receive the eternal inheritance he has promised since he died to set them free from the violations committed under the first covenant.
For where there is a will, the death of the one who made it must be proven. For a will takes effect only at death since it carries no force while the one who made it is alive.
So even the first covenant was inaugurated with blood. For when Moses had spoken every command to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats with water and scarlet wool and hyssop and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that God has commanded you to keep.”
For where there is a will, the death of the one who made it must be proven. For a will takes effect only at death since it carries no force while the one who made it is alive.
So even the first covenant was inaugurated with blood. For when Moses had spoken every command to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats with water and scarlet wool and hyssop and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that God has commanded you to keep.”
Does this answer your question? It's a good question. :thumb:
Hi and Heb 9:15 says that the blood of Christ PAID for the 1600 years of SACRIFICES that Israel killed to cover their SINS , and that is what heppened in Heb 9:15 and also that when he comes back the New Covenant will be put into operation !!
dan p
Well, I'm not sure if that answers it.
Sure, animals died as sacrifice.
But that makes it sound like animals were the ones that made the covenant.
Or I could ask it this way .......
Christ made the new covenant, and died, so the new covenant could carry force.
Who made the old covenant, and died, so the old covenant could carry force?
Whoever made the covenant must die for it to carry force.
I'm just not so sure we can claim that the sacrificial animals were the Testator of the old covenant.
Even if we realize that the animals represent Christ, Christ only died once, and that death was a looooooooong time after the old covenant was in place.
Who is the Testator of the old covenant?
It can be a head scratcher!
MAD means Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, which means it emphasizes the ministry and message of Paul, Christ's chosen Apostle to the nations.
One can hear MAD proponents frequently admonishing believers to focus their Bible study on the letters of Romans through Philemon as a base or lens for all other Bible study. I know that I tell people this at least ten times a week, probably more.
I don't know how you got that idea which is 180 degrees out.
Christ was the Testator.
In Hebrews 9:15 scripture says Jesus died to set them free from the violations committed under the first covenant.
The Day of Atonement did not literally remit sins but the sins were covered until Jesus' sacrifice which then remitted them.
In 1 Corinthians 11:25 KJV Paul said, "After the same manner also he took the cup when he had supped, saying, 'This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.'"
The sacrifice of Jesus in the NT remitted the sins of Israel in the OT.
At least one Madist claims there are two bodies of believers, one in Christ and the other of Christ.
Paul said there is only one body and one Lord.
So, technically, the Testator of the old covenant did not die in order to set the old covenant in force, because the old covenant was in force long before Christ died.
Right?
Or do we say that the old covenant was not in force till Christ (The Testator of the old covenant) died on the cross?
Which would mean that both the old and the new covenants were not put in force until the death of Christ (the Testator of both covenants), and not before.
In other words, if Christ is the Testator of the old covenant, and the Testator must die before that covenant could be in force ................ then even the old covenant was not in force until His death.
Lol - that's a new one for a Madist.
Ten to one it is YOUR misread, jamie, of that particular invidual's use of the word "bodies," whomever said individual was.
The 'Covenantal/Reformed/Calvinistic' concept of the Church= one Church composed of faithers/believers throughout history from Adam onward.
The 'Dispensational' concept of the Church=
Acts 2 Dispensational- The Church/Body of Christ is made up of believers having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and began at Pentecost, a new dispensation, post cross. Israel is not the Body of Christ/ Church and GOD has separate,distinct purposes and plans for both the BOC and national Israel.
Acts 9 or MAD Dispensational- A new Dispensation began in Acts as national Israel as a whole along with it's leadership rejected their Messiah, began to persecute the Church (Acts 7-8) and Christ from heaven incorporated Paul as His unique Apostle to the nations (Acts 9) and believers were baptized by one Spirit into one body, the BOC, a new creation, the one new man composed of Jew and Gentile without distinction.
Paul does not say that believers from all of human history have been baptized into that body.
The fact that Paul declares that there is one Body does not necessarily mean that GOD did not and does not have a separate plan for a believing remnant of national Israel according to prophecy.
All one has to do is look at prophecy concerning Israel to understand that it has not all been completed yet.....if understood literally.
And when examining prophecy for Israel and comparing it with Paul's words concerning the BOC, it's easy to see that neither the Prophets of Israel nor Paul, the Apostle to the nations, blends the two.
All believers are of the 'household of faith' but not all believers are of prophetic national Israel and not all believers are in the mystery BOC.
Certainly all who are saved in all of history are saved by Christ's work on the cross. That is not to say that believers in all of history have had knowledge of that event.
ClimateSanity
New member
Sounds like Tet.
ClimateSanity
New member
You must have poor reading comprehension.
ClimateSanity
New member
That brings a big SO WHAT???
Ya gotta point there? If not, what are you blathering about?
ClimateSanity
New member
It's hard to listen when your brain is crammed with garbage.
She and I have a little side conversation going on.
Right Divider
Body part
Paul was called in Acts 9 and that happened in Acts 10... God was preparing Peter for NEW revelation that Peter would receive FROM Paul.
Gal 2:6-9 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:6) But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person
for they who seemed [to be somewhat] in conference added nothing to me: (2:7) But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter; (2:8) (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles (2:9) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
for they who seemed [to be somewhat] in conference added nothing to me: (2:7) But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter; (2:8) (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles (2:9) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. They added NOTHING to Paul, BUT CONTRARIWISE, ..... Paul added something to THEM.
Go ahead, I'm sure that you will deny it all day long.... as per usual.