The Breath of Life

[TIOTM]

Irrelevant non-sequitur.

Keep repeating that is not going to make change the evidence.

"Breath of life" in nor referring to air in and out of the lungs. It is a figure of speech.

Breath of life is referring to the spirit that God put inside of our bodies, where actual breath and actual life proceeds. That will not change. Life stops when something living stops breathing. That too will not change. Breath and life in inseparable, meaning when we are no longer breathing, we cannot do anything that we were once able to do when we were alive. In fact, we cannot do anything at all. That too will not change.

That is NOT the only thing that death is based upon.

What other things are death based on?

 

[Right Divider]

Keep repeating that is not going to make change the evidence.

But it will continue to be true.

Breath of life is referring to the spirit that God put inside of our bodies, where actual breath and actual life proceeds. That will not change.

That's the point that I've been making. It's not about the air in and out of the lungs. The "breath of life" is a figure of speech.

Life stops when something living stops breathing.

Life is not simply about breathing. You are very stubborn.

That too will not change.

There is lots more to life than breathing.

Breath and life in inseparable, meaning when we are no longer breathing, we cannot do anything that we were once able to do when we were alive. In fact, we cannot do anything at all. That too will not change.

There is lots more to life than breathing.

That you fixate on that one thing is quite strange.

What other things are death based on?

Wikipedia has what seems to be a very reasonable comment on that topic:

Death is the end of life; the irreversible cessation of all biological functions that sustain a living organism.[1]​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death

Here is how the Merriam-Webster dictionary defines death:
1
a : a permanent cessation of all vital (see vital sense 2a) functions : the end of life

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/death

Note that both talk about ALL biological functions. That is what physical death is.

 

[Ps82]

What other things are death based on?

Excuse me. I know you did not direct you comment to me, but I do enjoy this topic and want to write a comment or two or ...

TIOTM wrote:
Breath of life is referring to the spirit that God put inside of our bodies,

I so agree, and see things this way. Our one spiritual God created male/female even before there was ever a body manifested for them. He spoke over them about being full of fruit, multiplying and having dominion over things. I happen to believe they had a measure of life at that point just no body for functioning. When The LORD breathed a breath into the nostrils of the body which was finally manifest that was imparting the existing male/female entity. Scripture says that was the moment humanity became "a soul." IOW, was completed.

TIOTM wrote:
Life stops when something living stops breathing ...

Questions for you:
Does mankind, male or female, no longer exist when they stop breathing? If this is what you are assuming then there is no point in having a heaven or a hell. No hope for life in a future Kingdom of our Savior. I conclude that male and female don't die when their bodies die. I suggest they spiritually just move from one location to another.

Also there are two words often used in scripture to talk about two measures of life. I'm still sorting out what they seem to reference.

1. Water seems to have to do with a bodily measure of life... Before the LORD formed Adam's body he added a mist to the ground for there had not yet been any rain. That mist of water is a measured portion of life provided for man's body. If you think about it the human body at the cell level does not die at once. The heart may stop and breathing may end and cells may begin to suffer from the lack of what they need from the flowing blood ... but it takes time for those to die ... there is still unique life belonging only to the body continuing for a time even after the living spirit of man has moved on.
2. Wind seems to refer to another measure of life. John 3:18 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh in, and wither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Wind to do with additional life that helps us have the sort of life we need to exist in the kingdom of our Lord. ... a spiritual life granted to our spiritual nature.

Water reveals the two stages of life God gives us. One measure of life as mortals ... the additional measure of life gifted to followers of Christ for the new bodies in his kingdom.
John 4:14 [Jesus speaking about eternal life says] But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again [for life]. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to ETERNAL LIFE.

TIOTM wrote:
we cannot do anything that we were once able to do when we were alive. In fact, we cannot do anything at all. That too will not change.

Well, I'm not sure. Yet, there is a verse that still puzzles a lot of us Bible students.
I Peter 3:18-20 Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, [in the spirit] in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared.

People have all sorts of interpretations but for me it sure sound like there were people from Noah's day still existing somewhere who needed to hear a word from the Messiah.. ????

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

What separates the living from the dead?

Breath.

Breathing is something that we all do without even having to think about doing it, yet the most vital part of life is our ability to breathe. When we are no longer breathing.

There are some that may believe that life comes from our own bodies, but that is not true.

In the Bible (Genesis 2:7 specifically), God forms Adam from the ground, and breathes the breath of life into him:

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


God formed Adam's body from the dust from the ground, then afterwards breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. Notice how Adam is not referred to as 'living;' until after God have breathed the breath of life into him, so Adam was dead prior to this. Therefore, when there is no breath in the body, there is no life, and the body is dead.


This is still true today.

A dead body is a body that is absent of breath, and a dead body lacks the ability to do anything living people have the ability to do-walk, talk, move, etc. This not only shows us that the essence of our life is not even something that we can see, but it also shows something far less evident than what we may have noticed: That breath alone contains life, which makes breath a life form all on its' own.

I have seen pro-aborts use this argument to try to persuade people that abortion is biblical. That a baby really isn't alive until it takes it's first breath.
That alone should be enough to show you that you are wrong.
As Right Divider pointed out to you in the other thread; Life is in the blood and that is the basis of atonement God gave in Leviticus.

 

[TIOTM]

I have seen pro-aborts use this argument to try to persuade people that abortion is biblical. That a baby really isn't alive until it takes it's first breath.

This is not a post about abortions, this is a post about the breath of life.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

This is not a post about abortions, this is a post about the breath of life.

Do you support abortion`?

 

[Ps82]

This is not a post about abortions, this is a post about the breath of life.

He/She [never know which on TOL] did mention the first breath of a human. He/She is pro-life and was talking about what other people say.

Here is how I look at the FIRST BREATH. First of all it came from God without any effort of humanity. Even if a pre-natal baby hasn't yet gasped for breath doesn't mean there is no life.

Well, here goes. Some are going to THINK I'm way off topic but not so.

At this time, until someone can convince me that I am wrong, I believe Gen. 1 and 2 are two separate events...not much overlapping of events of creation happening. After all, the beginning of Chapter 2 says the heavens and the earth and the host of them were finished. ... on the Seventh day God ended his work... rested ..." In Genesis 2 the word elohiym/Elohim is used to mention/name God.

The key is this: Someone else seems to have begun to work on the seventh day. In any case God felt a distinction needed to be made and revealed to Moses another name.

So if not Elohim, then who worked on the seventh day /Chapter 2?
This different name was not revealed to Abraham nor to Jacob but was revealed to Moses. Therefore, Moses used that name correctly as needed to convey the truth throughout the Pentateuch.

Here it is: These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the that The LORD God/YHWH made the earth and the heavens.

When I realized that I began to ask: Who is The LORD and started developing a book called Seeking The Father finding The Son.
Now, it was The LORD who breathed that breath for mankind and placed it into the body of mankind. THAT was the point mankind became a living soul.

But where was male/female before they were imparted into that first body formed by the The LORD God/YHWH?
They existed because Elohim said so in Gen. 1. They had already been given purposes. Since God says He is LIFE then I dare to say they were alive in him even before they began to gasp for air. What the LORD did for humanity in Gen. 2 was to impart that living entity called Man into that body waiting on them.

It was only then [when a living spiritual entity called male/female was added to a body with a measure of life] that mankind became a living SOUL.

After this impartation of a living spirit that Adam began to breathe Earthly air. Ever since man became a living soul Life has had to be continually replenished. Even after the curse upon the body of mankind which brought death into our lives mankind has been able to stay alive if their needs for air, food, and water are met and if their bodies didn't just wear out. I have a mother-in-law that will be 101 in about a month. She is still going because her needs are met and her body is holding on.

Well, after all this: Even if a baby had not gasped for air ... that baby is alive spiritually and its physical needs are being met if it has a loving mother.

Since my thoughts on a completed soul are these: A living spirit indwells a living body ... then how many of you know that God has a SOUL?

How can that be someone is pondering???

And yes, the same word used to talk about man's soul in Gen. 2 is used to talk about The LORD's Soul.
When mother's allow their babies to be killed, they are killing them physically but NOT Spiritually.

I just pray that as innocents they go to heaven... but there is scripture which suggests perhaps not. I think the blanket lie told to women, who take the sustenance their children need, even that first gasp for earthly air, that their babes are going straight to heaven is a crime and encourages abortions. What better way to get their child to heaven ... what better way to not feel guilty ... NOT! They may have even robbed their children of any blessings they MIGHT have gotten in heaven by taking away their moment in the sun.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

What separates the living from the dead?

The presence of the life-force and the active electrical system which maintains bodily function

Breath.

No. Breath of itself is not life. The air we breath carries the vital life-force which we need but breath alone can not sustain a body.
Consider that we could easily put a ventilator onto a dead body and pump air in and out of that person's lungs. They would still be dead.
A car without fuel is "dead" but if you put fuel in it but it doesn't have a battery, it's still "dead". The electrical system is needed for the car to have any life. So too a human body. The electrical system powers the heart and brain and lungs and everything else. Once active that allows you to breathe and take in the life-force.

Breathing is something that we all do without even having to think about doing it, yet the most vital part of life is our ability to breathe.

So is every other function of the body. Your heart beats without you thinking about it. Your skin heals from a cut without you thinking about it. Your stomach digests food without you thinking about it. etc etc.

There are some that may believe that life comes from our own bodies, but that is not true.

Life comes from the universal source, the life force which is all around us

In the Bible (Genesis 2:7 specifically), God forms Adam from the ground, and breathes the breath of life into him:

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

God formed Adam's body from the dust from the ground, then afterwards breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. Notice how Adam is not referred to as 'living;' until after God have breathed the breath of life into him, so Adam was lifeless prior to this. Therefore, when there is no breath in the body, there is no life, and the body is dead.

Most of Genesis is allegorical, not literal. It is an error to read much of the Bible literally. Genesis, in no small part, is relating the processes of alchemy and the method of creating the Elixir Of Life or Philosopher's Stone.

A dead body is a body that is absent of breath,

No this is wrong. A dead body is a body that is absent of the vital life force and the electrical system.

While many do not acknowledge God, and deny that our breath and our ability to breathe comes from God, they cannot deny that when something is no longer breathing, then it is no longer living, nor can they cannot deny that breath is something that is not physically removed from our bodies when we die, yet once breath is absent from our bodies, then the body is lifeless. Breath, then, is proof of an invisible life that gives life to our bodies, and once the breath and our ability to breathe is gone, our bodies are left lifeless.

Your "philosophy" or "theory" here is not right unfortunately but I understand why you think it is reality. Our ability to breathe comes from the "electrical system" of the body. Without it you would not have a heart beat and thus would not be able to transport Oxygen around your veins and arteries and thus would not be able to use any muscles, which includes your lungs and pancreas. Breathing is a product of the human electrical system. The air we breathe contains the vital life force. It's not "God" per say, but then that depends on what you deem "God" to be and that's a whole other thread!

 

[Right Divider]

No. Breath of itself is not life. The air we breath carries the vital life-force which we need but breath alone can not sustain a body.

It's primarily the inhalation of oxygen and the exhalation of carbon dioxide that keeps us alive.

Life comes from the universal source, the life force which is all around us

Some sort of pantheist? New-ager?

That's not going to fly here on this Christian site.

Most of Genesis is allegorical, not literal.

What are the percentages of allegorical and literal? Can some of it be both allegorical and literal?

It is an error to read much of the Bible literally.

It's also an error to allegorize parts that are purely literal.

Genesis, in no small part, is relating the processes of alchemy and the method of creating the Elixir Of Life or Philosopher's Stone.

Pure baloney!

 

[SwordOfTruth]

It's primarily the inhalation of oxygen and the exhalation of carbon dioxide that keeps us alive.

Were that so you should be able to ressussitate a dead body by pumping Oxygen into it. That you can't should tell you there is something else going on.

Some sort of pantheist? New-ager?

That's not going to fly here on this Christian site.

Are you claiming Theology as being solely Christian?

What are the percentages of allegorical and literal? Can some of it be both allegorical and literal?

It's certainly possible but common sense tends to help determine which is which and the more one sees and understands the allegories and thus the allegorical terminology used, the more one sees and understands all teh other allegories.

Pure baloney!

I respectfully disagree but you're welcome to your view

 

[Right Divider]

Were that so you should be able to ressussitate a dead body by pumping Oxygen into it. That you can't should tell you there is something else going on.

I was simply pointing out what breathing does for us. I was not suggesting that breathing is the only thing that life requires.

Are you claiming Theology as being solely Christian?

I was asking which false religion that you adhere to.

It's certainly possible but common sense tends to help determine which is which and the more one sees and understands the allegories and thus the allegorical terminology used, the more one sees and understands all teh other allegories.

Common sense is a very vague term. Logic and reason require a bit more effort.

I respectfully disagree but you're welcome to your view

I respectfully ask again for you to come clean about your world view.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

I was asking which false religion that you adhere to.

I don't adhere to any religion, as all religion is by definition false. Religion is a system of societal behavioural control, a psychological methodology to condition hearts and minds and keep them in a conditioned state. I was formerly indoctrinated from childhood like so many are but I managed to escape from that after a number of years. I think it's part of our evolutionary growth, much like we believed in Santa as little kids and then realised how silly that belief was later on. Having to have a religion dictate what you are, how you should behave, what you should and should not do and essentially think for you, is a crutch. It's a comfort zone that many need in their infancy to help them deal with the complexities and difficulties of life. Eventually for some, critical thinking enters the picture and eventually dispels the illusion and then the real journey begins.

Lest you misunderstand my position, note that I don't dismiss the Bible or the works that underpin other mainstream religions. I simply appraise them in a different way because my mind is now freed to be able to do that. I see a consistent message in all the mainstream works be they the Bible, Quran, Baghavad Gita, Taoism, Rosicrucianism and so on. That message can't be seen if one's mind is locked by religious indoctrination. As Jesus was so fond of saying, the Mysteries of the Kingdom (i.e. the great secrets) are only for "those with eyes to see and ears to hear".
By some grace I have been given such eyes and ears.

I don't think I can currently be labelled in the way that you seem to need people to be labelled. My mind is open and free.

Common sense is a very vague term. Logic and reason require a bit more effort.

Logic and reason are the enemies of religion. Religion abhors free thinking and requires compliance to not explore or think in certain directions.

 

[Right Divider]

I don't adhere to any religion,

You have your own religion.

as all religion is by definition false.

Your false definition is false.

Religion is a system of societal behavioural control, a psychological methodology to condition hearts and minds and keep them in a conditioned state.

Nope... see? False definitions lead to false beliefs.

I was formerly indoctrinated from childhood like so many are but I managed to escape from that after a number of years.

Good for your.

I think it's part of our evolutionary growth, much like we believed in Santa as little kids and then realised how silly that belief was later on. Having to have a religion dictate what you are, how you should behave, what you should and should not do and essentially think for you, is a crutch. It's a comfort zone that many need in their infancy to help them deal with the complexities and difficulties of life. Eventually for some, critical thinking enters the picture and eventually dispels the illusion and then the real journey begins.

Fantasy land seems to suit your taste.

Lest you misunderstand my position, note that I don't dismiss the Bible or the works that underpin other mainstream religions. I simply appraise them in a different way because my mind is now freed to be able to do that. I see a consistent message in all the mainstream works be they the Bible, Quran, Baghavad Gita, Taoism, Rosicrucianism and so on.

Your confusion is immense to say the least. If you think that all of those are comparable, then you are not so "objective" as you claim.

That message can't be seen if one's mind is locked by religious indoctrination. As Jesus was so fond of saying, the Mysteries of the Kingdom (i.e. the great secrets) are only for "those with eyes to see and ears to hear".
By some grace I have been given such eyes and ears.

Or so you think...

I don't think I can currently be labelled in the way that you seem to need people to be labelled. My mind is open and free.

So open that your brain fell out.

The only reason that I ask you to "label" yourself is to understand the fundamentals of your belief system. Nothing more or less.

Logic and reason are the enemies of religion.

Another of your many false statements.

Religion abhors free thinking and requires

Absolutely false.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

You have your own religion.

Nope. I follow no religion.

Your false definition is false.

Your statement is incorrect

Nope... see? False definitions lead to false beliefs.

My opinion in regards to organised religion is not a false belief. It is what I know to be true.

Fantasy land seems to suit your taste.

Sadly the fantasy lands are those peddled by religions which concern fictitious places people think they will go to after death. This unfortunate lie prevents people seeking out the true journey to prevent death and instead ensures they will walk into their graves.

Your confusion is immense to say the least. If you think that all of those are comparable, then you are not so "objective" as you claim.

This view is borne from a mind shielded from the secrets hidden in plain sight in all of those works. Jesus was clear, unless you have the eyes to see and ears to hear these secrets are not for you.

"Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."

It's ok, you're among billions of people who likewise do not yet have the eyes to see or ears to hear. You're not ready. For many years I wasn't ready either.

The same thing is recounted in the Quran too:

Surah Ar-Rum (Rome)

"24. He sends down water (rain) from the sky, and therewith revives the earth
after its death. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who understand"

and again here:

Surah Az-Zumar (The Groups)

"21. See you not, that Allah sends down water (rain) from the sky, and causes
it to penetrate the earth, (and then makes it to spring up) as water-springs and
afterward thereby produces crops of different colours, and afterward they wither
and you see them turn yellow, then He makes them dry and broken pieces. Verily,
in this, is a Reminder for men of understanding."

So open that your brain fell out.

Ah you've run out of argument at this point.

 

[Right Divider]

Nope. I follow no religion.

Since you will not expose your fundamental beliefs, we cannot know for sure what you believe.

Your statement is incorrect

Your statement is incorrect. See how that works?

My opinion in regards to organised religion is not a false belief. It is what I know to be true.

What you "know" may be false. So far, you are far less then persuasive.

Sadly the fantasy lands are those peddled by religions which concern fictitious places people think they will go to after death.

You opinions don't move anyone.

This unfortunate lie prevents people seeking out the true journey to prevent death and instead ensures they will walk into their graves.

Please make some sense once in a while.

This view is borne from a mind shielded from the secrets hidden in plain sight in all of those works. Jesus was clear, unless you have the eyes to see and ears to hear these secrets are not for you.

You're so far off the rails that is almost funny.

"Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."

It's ok, you're among billions of people who likewise do not yet have the eyes to see or ears to hear. You're not ready. For many years I wasn't ready either.

The same thing is recounted in the Quran too:

Surah Ar-Rum (Rome)

"24. He sends down water (rain) from the sky, and therewith revives the earth
after its death. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who understand"

and again here:

Surah Az-Zumar (The Groups)

"21. See you not, that Allah sends down water (rain) from the sky, and causes
it to penetrate the earth, (and then makes it to spring up) as water-springs and
afterward thereby produces crops of different colours, and afterward they wither
and you see them turn yellow, then He makes them dry and broken pieces. Verily,
in this, is a Reminder for men of understanding."

You are simply showing your extreme bias. You're not the first one here to do that and I'm sure that you won't be the last.

Ah you've run out of argument at this point.

Just an assessment of your situation. When you're ready to start having a reasoned discussion, you let us know.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

When you're ready to start having a reasoned discussion, you let us know.

Your various retorts are simply flippant remarks. You've made no attempt to engage in "reasoned discussion". You even resorted to insult and derision.

 

[Right Divider]

Your various retorts are simply flippant remarks. You've made no attempt to engage in "reasoned discussion". You even resorted to insult and derision.

Suck it up buttercup.

You come here spouting your anti-Christian bias on this Christian website. Did you expect a warm welcome? a pat on the back? an invitation to a dinner party?

Get over yourself!

 

[SwordOfTruth]

Suck it up buttercup.

You come here spouting your anti-Christian bias on this Christian website. Did you expect a warm welcome? a pat on the back? an invitation to a dinner party?

Get over yourself!

I'm afraid I'm not one that can be goaded with childish soundbites.

 

[Right Divider]

I'm afraid I'm not one that can be goaded with childish soundbites.

Good for you.