ECT The Believers from Persia (drive through version for those who hate research...)

[Tambora]

Gen 13:14-18 (AKJV/PCE)​

(13:14) ¶ And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: (13:15) For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. (13:16) And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, [then] shall thy seed also be numbered. (13:17) Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee. (13:18) Then Abram removed [his] tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which [is] in Hebron, and built there an altar unto the LORD.

​

Ezek 37:20-28 (AKJV/PCE)​

(37:20) ¶ And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. (37:21) And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:(37:22) And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: (37:23) Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. (37:24) And David my servant [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. (37:25) And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, [even] they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever. (37:26) Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. (37:27) My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (37:28) And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore. ​

These are just as true as when the LORD declared them!

Yeppers.
If one cannot trust what the LORD has promised Israel, then on cannot trust what they LORD has promised them either.

 

[Interplanner]

Yeppers.
If one cannot trust what the LORD has promised Israel, then on cannot trust what they LORD has promised them either.

Christ is that sanctuary. The Greek term chosen in Jn 1 for he dwelt among us is 'tabernacled.' (skeno).

Besides, does RD realize how much has happened before that was declared, and how little the NT is concerned about it happening again or over again?

Mt 2:15: out of Egypt I called my Son, had to be fulfilled. The true reality of Christ that it shadowed had to come. Likewise the entire OT. Shadow gives way to reality in Christ.

 

[Right Divider]

Christ is that sanctuary. The Greek term chosen in Jn 1 for he dwelt among us is 'tabernacled.' (skeno).

Besides, does RD realize how much has happened before that was declared, and how little the NT is concerned about it happening again or over again?

Mt 2:15: out of Egypt I called my Son, had to be fulfilled. The true reality of Christ that it shadowed had to come. Likewise the entire OT. Shadow gives way to reality in Christ.

Col 2:16-17 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: (2:17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ. ​

The things TO COME! Contrasted with the BODY OF CHRIST!

 

[Interplanner]

Col 2:16-17 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: (2:17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ. ​

The things TO COME! Contrasted with the BODY OF CHRIST!

Not at all. Contrasted with neo-Judaism. You just prove over and over that you have no idea what the text is saying. Some translations properly render the term for body as 'reality.' because of so many examples of contrasting the two. Shadow vs reality. Your understanding of the flow of the text is anarchist.

Besides, 'things to come' was said in the historical sense; the OT law was awaiting the reality to come. The same thing is found in Hebrews where he speaks as though the old covenant was now.

 

[Right Divider]

Not at all. Contrasted with neo-Judaism.

You and your made-up fairy tale terminology.

You just prove over and over that you have no idea what the text is saying.

I understand it, you pervert it.

Some translations properly render the term for body as 'reality.' because of so many examples of contrasting the two.

Oh gee, I guess I need a "proper translation".

The word translated BODY in that verse is SOMA and it means.... BODY!

Shadow vs reality.

Truth vs fairy tale.

Your understanding of the flow of the text is anarchist.

My understanding is accurate. Yours is invented in your fictional mind.

Besides, 'things to come' was said in the historical sense; the OT law was awaiting the reality to come.

Utter nonsense.

The same thing is found in Hebrews where he speaks as though the old covenant was now.

:french:

 

[Interplanner]

It's not made up at all. Do you have a better name for a movement or ideology that bases itself on the law and says it has spoken to the same angels that gave the law?

 

[Interplanner]

You and your made-up fairy tale terminology.


I understand it, you pervert it.


Oh gee, I guess I need a "proper translation".

The word translated BODY in that verse is SOMA and it means.... BODY!


Truth vs fairy tale.


My understanding is accurate. Yours is invented in your fictional mind.


Utter nonsense.


:french:

Soma means substance or reality when it is pit against shadow. You don't just get to swoop in and call it the body of Christ because it is literally 'body.'

reread Hebrews. Anyone waiting for Christ to come was awaiting the day when the law would give way to the reality of Christ the new covenant. 'It was a matter of external regulations waiting until the time of (Christ's) reformation would come.'

You use a few terms from the text but loaded with very foreign meaning. You do that a lot.

 

[Right Divider]

Soma means substance or reality when it is pit against shadow.

Soma is translated BODY everywhere in the Bible with one exception, Rev 18:13

You don't just get to swoop in and call it the body of Christ because it is literally 'body.'

Col 2:17 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ. ​

It LITERALLY says BODY OF CHRIST.

reread Hebrews. Anyone waiting for Christ to come was awaiting the day when the law would give way to the reality of Christ the new covenant. 'It was a matter of external regulations waiting until the time of (Christ's) reformation would come.'

Hilarious, as usual.

You use a few terms from the text but loaded with very foreign meaning. You do that a lot.

The hypocrisy is amazing.

 

[Interplanner]

That 2:17 is not about the Christians. it is about Christ. Possessive v. genetive, since you'd like to know Greek grammar. Simply cp. v19 which is about the group. Soma is contrasted with the shadow--the Law. Now that Christ has come, it is approached differently. This is NT theology 101, and I think you are an OT person.

What is the joke about Hebrews? Are you actually missing the main points: a priest greater than Aaron and outside his descendancy has come. A building greater than the temple is here (the Christian believers, 3:6).

7:11-19. I don't think you know it is there or what it means.

What is hilarious about the time of reformation that has now come? Do you know the textual issues about 9:11 and the things already here. That is the majority reading.



Please stop and think through what you are saying instead of automatically opposing for opposing's sake.

 

[Right Divider]

That 2:17 is not about the Christians. it is about Christ. Possessive v. genetive, since you'd like to know Greek grammar. Simply cp. v19 which is about the group. Soma is contrasted with the shadow--the Law. Now that Christ has come, it is approached differently. This is NT theology 101, and I think you are an OT person.

What is the joke about Hebrews? Are you actually missing the main points: a priest greater than Aaron and outside his descendancy has come. A building greater than the temple is here (the Christian believers, 3:6).

7:11-19. I don't think you know it is there or what it means.

What is hilarious about the time of reformation that has now come? Do you know the textual issues about 9:11 and the things already here. That is the majority reading.

Please stop and think through what you are saying instead of automatically opposing for opposing's sake.

Your "interp" of the Bible is completely insane. Many of us have tried to help you, but your preconceived ideas force you to verify your false premises at any cost.

 

[Interplanner]

Your "interp" of the Bible is completely insane. Many of us have tried to help you, but your preconceived ideas force you to verify your false premises at any cost.

You need to be specific. You avoid specific points because you will lose the argument you think you are making. Christ is the reality God meant to showcase, not the church. See Heb 8:5 for similar language.

 

[Interplanner]

when Dan 9 490 years is supposed to end in the mid first century and you guys honk and bark that there is X000 years slammed in there someplace, whose is insane? What happened to the normal meaning? Especially when the events of the 1st century are right there in Dan 9 to test-drive.

 

[Right Divider]

You need to be specific. You avoid specific points because you will lose the argument you think you are making.

Baloney, Mr. HighGround

Christ is the reality God meant to showcase, not the church. See Heb 8:5 for similar language.

Hebrews is written to those, like Peter, that were looking for a future restoration of Israel.

Keep reading and stop cherry picking.

Heb 8:5-13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(8:5) Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. (8:6) But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. (8:7) For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (8:8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:(8:9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (8:10) For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (8:11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. (8:12) For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. (8:13) In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away. ​

 

[Right Divider]

when Dan 9 490 years is supposed to end in the mid first century and you guys honk and bark that there is X000 years slammed in there someplace, whose is insane? What happened to the normal meaning? Especially when the events of the 1st century are right there in Dan 9 to test-drive.

The millennium comes AFTER the 490 years. You are ridiculously ignorant.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

when Dan 9 490 years is supposed to end in the mid first century and you guys honk and bark that there is X000 years slammed in there someplace, whose is insane? What happened to the normal meaning? Especially when the events of the 1st century are right there in Dan 9 to test-drive.

Made up.

The 490 years ends when it ends.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The 490 years ends when it ends.

The 490 years ended before Acts 10.

 

[Interplanner]

The 490 years ended before Acts 10.

It ends with the destruction of the city and temple, which was in the 7th decade. God gave the whole generation there the chance to follow His enthroned Christ and Lord, the Son of David, Ps 2, Acts 2. Except in STP land where it means anything but the most ordinary sense.

 

[Interplanner]

Just a reminder from Mordekai in Eliot's 19th cent. novel: DANIEL DERONDA. "We do not know who we are unless are a unified people in our land."

That sounds just the apostles doesn't it, esp. Acts 2-4!!!

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

It ends with the destruction of the city and temple, which was in the 7th decade. God gave the whole generation there the chance to follow His enthroned Christ and Lord, the Son of David, Ps 2, Acts 2. Except in STP land where it means anything but the most ordinary sense.

Made up.

 

[Interplanner]

Funny how when the Bible is read in the most normal sense, the D'ist calls it 'made up'!

Hint: 'the end' poured out on him is about destruction of him. He was.

Hint: v27a is about Christ and his new covenant. The 'end of sacrifices and offerings' is the theme of Hebrews and the expression is used there.

Hint: 27b is a shift of POV, of person. Check any Hebrew grammar commentary you like. It is a SHIFT from a's POV and person. It's the guy from 8:13 again.


It is easy to forget while reading the paragraph that 27a would be about Christ, because others are mentioned, but the paragraph is primarily about Christ.