ECT The Believers from Persia (drive through version for those who hate research...)

I

Interplanner

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This thread is about how the people of Abraham the Persian were denominated by believing the Gospel of justification from sin through a credited righteousness, and the Seed of Abraham that would be born to bless all nations. They were shown the area of Canaan, later Judea, but the idea that they were supposed to be a theocracy there, rather than a mission to the nations as found in Acts, is Judaism's replacement theology mistake.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
This drive-by version was specifically for STP, who, in spite of being up at 6am, has no time to read the complete version with all its references, but has time to say that I don't use biblical references.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
This thread is about how the people of Abraham the Persian were denominated by believing the Gospel of justification from sin through a credited righteousness, and the Seed of Abraham that would be born to bless all nations. They were shown the area of Canaan, later Judea, but the idea that they were supposed to be a theocracy there, rather than a mission to the nations as found in Acts, is Judaism's replacement theology mistake.
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The theocracy comes well after Abraham, with Moses and the Law.
 
steko

steko

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Interplanner said:
This thread is about how the people of Abraham the Persian were denominated by believing the Gospel of justification from sin through a credited righteousness, and the Seed of Abraham that would be born to bless all nations. They were shown the area of Canaan, later Judea, but the idea that they were supposed to be a theocracy there, rather than a mission to the nations as found in Acts, is Judaism's replacement theology mistake.
Click to expand...

I still see no evidence that Abram was Persian.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
What is your name for the area where Abraham came from?

The point is: it doesn't matter because his people were just called by his name--Habiru/Hebrew/Abram. The Promise was not land, but Christ, to bless the nations.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
That is what Heb 11 is saying. Getting to the land never was the reception of the Promise, only the culmination/end of the ages when Christ came; that's the arrival of the Promise.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
I think our D'ist friends think Abraham was already Jewish before God called him to travel west!

Abraham, responding to God: "I can't Lord; I'm not Jewish yet!"
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

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Interplanner said:
This thread is about how the people of Abraham the Persian were denominated by believing the Gospel of justification from sin through a credited righteousness, and the Seed of Abraham that would be born to bless all nations. They were shown the area of Canaan, later Judea, but the idea that they were supposed to be a theocracy there, rather than a mission to the nations as found in Acts, is Judaism's replacement theology mistake.
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Abraham was a Chaldean, not a Persian.
Interplanner said:
What is your name for the area where Abraham came from?
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Ur of the Chaldees (see Genesis 11:31).
Interplanner said:
What is your name for the country he left in Gen 11?
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It is currently known as Iran, but you didn't call him Abraham the Iranian, did you?
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Was there any difference at that time? The etymological stem of Persia is -ur-.

Gal 3 calls Abraham the man of faith, not the ____ian (fill in the ethnicity here)
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

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Interplanner said:
Was there any difference at that time? The etymological stem of Persia is -ur-.

Gal 3 calls Abraham the man of faith, not the ____ian (fill in the ethnicity here)
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Just use the ethnicity that the Bible uses instead of trying to change it.

Genesis 14:13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.​

 
I

Interplanner

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genuineoriginal said:
Just use the ethnicity that the Bible uses instead of trying to change it.

Genesis 14:13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.​

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The document was written many generations later. The ethnicity does not matter anyway, but even then, we do not know if 'habiru' meant a group in Canaan or back in Persia, because there happened to be a group in 2M BC Canaan that did use that designation. So the whole matter is even more linguistically confused than we thought (in That 'habiru' has a way of sounding like 'Abram' and which was there in Canaan first)

BUT THE NT SAYS THE ETHNICITY DOESN'T MATTER ANYWAY!!! Don't miss the forest for the trees. 'They were not thinking of the land they came from...and they did not receive the promise...[in Canaan]' for it was Christ all along.
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

New member
Interplanner said:
The Promise was not land, but Christ, to bless the nations.
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Interplanner said:
Post-exile Judaism replaced this Promise with the Law and the 'eretz'. Gal 3:17
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Abraham was given a number of promises.
The promise of the land of Canaan to his descendants was one promise.
The promise of many descendants was another promise.
The promise of the seed (Christ) blessing the nations was a different promise than the others.

Interplanner said:
That is what Heb 11 is saying. Getting to the land never was the reception of the Promise, only the culmination/end of the ages when Christ came; that's the arrival of the Promise.
Click to expand...
Interplanner said:
'They were not thinking of the land they came from...and they did not receive the promise...[in Canaan]' for it was Christ all along.
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You are confusing the promises God made to Abraham with the promise God made in the new covenant.

Hebrews 9:15
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.​

The saints of the Old Testament did not receive the promise of eternal inheritance that was from the new covenant.

Hebrews 11:39-40
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.​

The promise of the land of Canaan is a separate promise that God will remember.

Leviticus 26:44-45
44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the Lord their God.
45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.​

 
Right Divider

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Body part
Interplanner said:
The document was written many generations later. The ethnicity does not matter anyway, but even then, we do not know if 'habiru' meant a group in Canaan or back in Persia, because there happened to be a group in 2M BC Canaan that did use that designation. So the whole matter is even more linguistically confused than we thought (in That 'habiru' has a way of sounding like 'Abram' and which was there in Canaan first)

BUT THE NT SAYS THE ETHNICITY DOESN'T MATTER ANYWAY!!! Don't miss the forest for the trees. 'They were not thinking of the land they came from...and they did not receive the promise...[in Canaan]' for it was Christ all along.
Click to expand...
Gen 13:14-18 (AKJV/PCE)​
(13:14) ¶ And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: (13:15) For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. (13:16) And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, [then] shall thy seed also be numbered. (13:17) Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee. (13:18) Then Abram removed [his] tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which [is] in Hebron, and built there an altar unto the LORD.

​
Ezek 37:20-28 (AKJV/PCE)​
(37:20) ¶ And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. (37:21) And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:(37:22) And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: (37:23) Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. (37:24) And David my servant [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. (37:25) And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, [even] they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever. (37:26) Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. (37:27) My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (37:28) And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore. ​

These are just as true as when the LORD declared them!
 
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