the apocalypse

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Interesting from Fr. Miceli:

"The conference sat in judgment, in the chair of Peter not of Moses, on the Church. It preached downward to the hierarchy, scolding them, demanding a reform of their lives, and listing privileges they must give up at once


Isn't that what you do in this thread on a regular basis? Are you wrong, or was the conference wrong, or are you both right?

Reading through that entire link, and understanding that he was writing a first-person account, I don't know how reliable a narrative it is. Would another observer have a much different take? He quoted without attribution, and provided his own version of their intent, and I don't know if he was accurate. It seems to me the thread running through the narrative was that he feared for the safety of clericalism.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
It can't be answered
so
the only question is
why do you ask it?
to get informed?
or
to embarrass the one answering it

Don't mischaracterize me too. I'm not trying to embarrass you, I want to know what you're thinking.

You can have a belief without knowing whether or not you're right. Do you think an atheist who has lived as you think he or she ought - do they have a chance at heaven?

A traditional Catholic will say "no, absolutely not" right away.

An orthodox Catholic will say "we are to have hope."

A liberal Catholic will say "God wants all of us to go to Heaven."
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
As an aside: I noted in the "Jesuit rag" quote of yours I pulled up, I'd mentioned in the post you were replying to the "saintly" Jean Vanier. Since I wrote that post, sadly, I found out he was posthumously accused of sexual abuse of multiple women.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
As an aside: I noted in the "Jesuit rag" quote of yours I pulled up, I'd mentioned in the post you were replying to the "saintly" Jean Vanier. Since I wrote that post, sadly, I found out he was posthumously accused of sexual abuse of multiple women.

so why do you read that jesuit rag?
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
so why do you read that jesuit rag?

I don't, generally. :chuckle: That was during your Jordan Peterson phase.

Anyway, a couple questions still unanswered, if you're willing to answer them:


From the intro: The following are the observations of Reverend Vincent P. Miceli, who participated, as a delegate, in the 1976 "Call to Action" conference held in Detroit. It was during this conference that radicals attempted to create a democratic, non-hierarchical and classless church.

Do you think those are radical ideas?
"The conference sat in judgment, in the chair of Peter not of Moses, on the Church. It preached downward to the hierarchy, scolding them, demanding a reform of their lives, and listing privileges they must give up at once


Isn't that what you do in this thread on a regular basis? Are you wrong, or was the conference wrong, or are you both right?
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
No

the Church is not and never will be a democratic institution
It doesn't matter what you or anybody thinks
It is there for you to consider
take it of leave it
I am fighting for the Church and against those who intend to destroy Her

You changed the goalposts. I said you're both right in reference to the second question:

"The conference sat in judgment, in the chair of Peter not of Moses, on the Church. It preached downward to the hierarchy, scolding them, demanding a reform of their lives, and listing privileges they must give up at once."

Isn't that what you do in this thread on a regular basis? Are you wrong, or was the conference wrong, or are you both right?

And you answered in the affirmative, that only the timing was different.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
NO
who was in control at the time

You scold the hierarchy on a regular basis in this thread, all the way up to Francis. You want the hierarchy to reform (not arguing they shouldn't). You want the laity to lead the way. You are doing the same as the radicals, only when you do it you see yourself as the right kind of radical.

Talk of mercy and forgiveness is good but some kind of change must be forced by the laity.
 
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