The Agnostic Religion

[Granite]

FYI, if anyone wants to corner me here, I am a huge fan of the Old Testament.

Ask me about how horrible a person I am or something, or why God allows evil
to exist... or is there really any free will at all, if you want, just for conversational
purposes.

Or, hey, look at nature: look at the crime in the streets, the rapes, the tortures,
the murders, the rise of Islamism and Nazism and Marxism (noting that you are
"more right then left")... look at the horrible insects that lay their babies in living
prey only to have them slowly eat them out from the inside... or plagues or
natural disasters... or whatever horrors this world holds.

There legacy of world horrors seems to never end. And each of us have had our
own curses and terrible dilemmas to deal with... some much more then others.

And, noting, you have said that you have read the entire Bible, I could point out
for me, what I have found to be true is what Paul said about how the Law, though
Holy and Good creates death in us, for when we read the Law our fleshly, 'sinful
as it is', rebels against it at every twist and turn. 'So I did not know of covetousness,
but when I read of it sin in me created everyone form of covetousness and so
death was born'... to paraphrase.

And I can point out, having the same flesh as anyone else, my heart is full of
every manner of sin all through the day... granted through the grace of God,
I am able to resist much of it, yet even still I give in here and there... and we
are full of incredible hypocrises of deceit... as another writer noted, 'the heart
is deceitful above all else'.

So, what of all of this?

And, to go even further, there is the book of "The Preacher", which points out
that everything in life is vain, useless, meaningless... we strive, but the race
is not to the swiftest, but luck and chance happen to all... Einstein said that
he can not believe God uses dice, but the Scripture states otherwise: the
world is cast about in varying laws and probabilities...

In fact, to believe in such things, to even know them, is largely and completely
impossible for the flesh. There is no way man can just stroll up into the spiritual
planes and force a meeting with God.

God hides Himself in everything, yet His presence is everywhere.

Ah yes. The Old Testament. Replete with rape, the mutiliation of women, and genocide. Cute!

 

[Frank Ernest]

Ah yes. The Old Testament. Replete with rape, the mutiliation of women, and genocide. Cute!

:darwinsm: Sure is more exciting than the prissy, wimpy little sandbox world you prefer.

 

[Caledvwlch]

:darwinsm: Sure is more exciting than the prissy, wimpy little sandbox world you prefer.

You got a citation to go with that remark?

 

[Zakath]

...
The Malleus Maleficarum (The Witch Hammer), first published in 1486,
is arguably one of the most infamous books ever written, due primarily to its
position and regard during the Middle Ages. It served as a guidebook for
Inquisitors during the Inquisition, and was designed to aid them in the
identification, prosecution, and dispatching of Witches. It set forth, as
well, many of the modern misconceptions and fears concerning witches and the
influence of witchcraft. The questions, definitions, and accusations it set
forth in regard to witches, which were reinforced by its use during the
Inquisition, came to be widely regarded as irrefutable truth. Those beliefs
are held even today by a majority of Christians in regard to practitioners of
the modern “revived” religion of Witchcraft, or Wicca. And while the Malleus
itself is largely unknown in modern times, its effects have proved long
lasting.
At the time of the writing of The Malleus Maleficarum, there were many
voices within the Christian community (scholars and theologians) who doubted
the existence of witches and largely regarded such belief as mere
superstition. The authors of the Malleus addressed those voices in no
uncertain terms, stating: “Whether the Belief that there are such Beings as
Witches is so Essential a Part of the Catholic Faith that Obstinacy to
maintain the Opposite Opinion manifestly savours of Heresy.” The immediate,
and lasting, popularity of the Malleus essentially silenced those voices. It
made very real the threat of one being branded a heretic, simply by virtue of
one's questioning of the existence of witches and, thus, the validity of the
Inquisition. It set into the general Christian consciousness, for all time, a
belief in the existence of witches as a real and valid threat to the Christian
world. It is a belief which is held to this day.
It must be noted that during the Inquisition, few, if any, real,
verifiable, witches were ever discovered or tried. Often the very accusation
was enough to see one branded a witch, tried by the Inquisitors' Court, and
burned alive at the stake. Estimates of the death toll during the Inquisition
worldwide range from 600,000 to as high as 9,000,000 (over its 250 year long
course); either is a chilling number when one realizes that nearly all of the
accused were women, and consisted primarily of outcasts and other suspicious
persons. Old women. Midwives. Jews. Poets. Gypsies. Anyone who did not fit
within the contemporary view of pieous Christians were suspect, and easily
branded "Witch". Usually to devastating effect.
It must also be noted that the crime of Witchcraft was not the only
crime of which one could be accused during the Inquisition. By questioning any
part of Catholic belief, one could be branded a heretic. Scientists were
branded heretics by virtue of repudiating certain tenets of Christian belief
(most notably Galileo, whose theories on the nature of planets and
gravitational fields was initially branded heretical). Writers who challenged
the Church were arrested for heresy (sometimes formerly accepted writers whose
works had become unpopular). Anyone who questioned the validity of any part of
Catholic belief did so at their own risk. The Malleus Maleficarum played an
important role in bringing such Canonical law into being, as often the charge
of heresy carried along with it suspicions of witchcraft.
It must be remembered that the Malleus is a work of its time. Science
had only just begun to make any real advances. At that time nearly any
unexplainable illness or malady would often be attributed to magic, and thus
the activity of witches. It was a way for ordinary people to make sense of the
world around them. The Malleus drew upon those beliefs, and, by its very
existence, reinforced them and brought them into the codified belief system of
the Catholic Church. In many ways, it could be said that it helped to validate
the Inquisition itself.
While the Malleus itself cannot be blamed for the Inquisition or the
horrors inflicted upon mankind by the Inquisitors, it certainly played an
important role. Thus has it been said that The Malleus Maleficarum is one of
the most blood-soaked works in human history, in that its very existence
reinforced and validated Catholic beliefs which led to the prosecution,
torture, and murder, of tens of thousands of innocent people.
The lasting effect of the Malleus upon the world can only be measured
in the lives of the hundreds of thousands of men, women, and even children,
who suffered, and died, at the hands of the Catholic Inquisitors during the
Inquisition. Its effects were even felt in the New World, where the last gasp of the Inquisition was felt in the English settlements in America (most notably in Salem, Massachusetts during the Salem Witch Trials).

=====================================

OMEGA, I know where you obtained this (word for word) and want to remind you that here in the USA we have rules about posting other people's materials without adequately giving them credit.

Please cite the source for your "cut and paste" exercises.

BTW, what does this have to do with "agnosticism"? :think:

 

[Zakath]

double posted in error

 

[Granite]

:darwinsm: Sure is more exciting than the prissy, wimpy little sandbox world you prefer.

:yawn:

If worshipping a Middle Eastern tribal sky god with a bloodlust keeps you happy, more power to you.

 

[allsmiles]

WRONG,

Christians did not Sack Constantinople.

The Idolatrous, Satan Led, Pagan Catholics did.

The following is from the internet.

In 1204 AD, Roman Catholic crusaders of the Fourth Crusade attacked and sacked Constantinople , leaving behind a legacy of bitterness among Eastern Church which continues to this day.

Papal authority is principally responsible for the accusation, torture and burning for two centuries (1450-1650) of tens of thousands, of what they called, witches .
The Malleus Maleficarum (The Witch Hammer), first published in 1486,
is arguably one of the most infamous books ever written, due primarily to its
position and regard during the Middle Ages. It served as a guidebook for
Inquisitors during the Inquisition, and was designed to aid them in the
identification, prosecution, and dispatching of Witches. It set forth, as
well, many of the modern misconceptions and fears concerning witches and the
influence of witchcraft. The questions, definitions, and accusations it set
forth in regard to witches, which were reinforced by its use during the
Inquisition, came to be widely regarded as irrefutable truth. Those beliefs
are held even today by a majority of Christians in regard to practitioners of
the modern “revived” religion of Witchcraft, or Wicca. And while the Malleus
itself is largely unknown in modern times, its effects have proved long
lasting.
At the time of the writing of The Malleus Maleficarum, there were many
voices within the Christian community (scholars and theologians) who doubted
the existence of witches and largely regarded such belief as mere
superstition. The authors of the Malleus addressed those voices in no
uncertain terms, stating: “Whether the Belief that there are such Beings as
Witches is so Essential a Part of the Catholic Faith that Obstinacy to
maintain the Opposite Opinion manifestly savours of Heresy.” The immediate,
and lasting, popularity of the Malleus essentially silenced those voices. It
made very real the threat of one being branded a heretic, simply by virtue of
one's questioning of the existence of witches and, thus, the validity of the
Inquisition. It set into the general Christian consciousness, for all time, a
belief in the existence of witches as a real and valid threat to the Christian
world. It is a belief which is held to this day.
It must be noted that during the Inquisition, few, if any, real,
verifiable, witches were ever discovered or tried. Often the very accusation
was enough to see one branded a witch, tried by the Inquisitors' Court, and
burned alive at the stake. Estimates of the death toll during the Inquisition
worldwide range from 600,000 to as high as 9,000,000 (over its 250 year long
course); either is a chilling number when one realizes that nearly all of the
accused were women, and consisted primarily of outcasts and other suspicious
persons. Old women. Midwives. Jews. Poets. Gypsies. Anyone who did not fit
within the contemporary view of pieous Christians were suspect, and easily
branded "Witch". Usually to devastating effect.
It must also be noted that the crime of Witchcraft was not the only
crime of which one could be accused during the Inquisition. By questioning any
part of Catholic belief, one could be branded a heretic. Scientists were
branded heretics by virtue of repudiating certain tenets of Christian belief
(most notably Galileo, whose theories on the nature of planets and
gravitational fields was initially branded heretical). Writers who challenged
the Church were arrested for heresy (sometimes formerly accepted writers whose
works had become unpopular). Anyone who questioned the validity of any part of
Catholic belief did so at their own risk. The Malleus Maleficarum played an
important role in bringing such Canonical law into being, as often the charge
of heresy carried along with it suspicions of witchcraft.
It must be remembered that the Malleus is a work of its time. Science
had only just begun to make any real advances. At that time nearly any
unexplainable illness or malady would often be attributed to magic, and thus
the activity of witches. It was a way for ordinary people to make sense of the
world around them. The Malleus drew upon those beliefs, and, by its very
existence, reinforced them and brought them into the codified belief system of
the Catholic Church. In many ways, it could be said that it helped to validate
the Inquisition itself.
While the Malleus itself cannot be blamed for the Inquisition or the
horrors inflicted upon mankind by the Inquisitors, it certainly played an
important role. Thus has it been said that The Malleus Maleficarum is one of
the most blood-soaked works in human history, in that its very existence
reinforced and validated Catholic beliefs which led to the prosecution,
torture, and murder, of tens of thousands of innocent people.
The lasting effect of the Malleus upon the world can only be measured
in the lives of the hundreds of thousands of men, women, and even children,
who suffered, and died, at the hands of the Catholic Inquisitors during the
Inquisition. Its effects were even felt in the New World, where the last gasp of the Inquisition was felt in the English settlements in America (most notably in Salem, Massachusetts during the Salem Witch Trials).

=====================================

True Christians were in their homes quietly praying and asking God to protect them

from the Evil, Power hungry Catholic Church.

are you saying that real christians didn't exist until after the reformation?

 

[Granite]

are you saying that real christians didn't exist until after the reformation?

"He" isn't saying a thing, as all Omega can do is cut and paste. :loser:

 

[allsmiles]

nice signature Granite, the Raiders have no idea what's in store for them tonight

and i always got the impression that the OT Yahweh was a volcano god...

 

[Granite]

nice signature Granite, the Raiders have no idea what's in store for them tonight

and i always got the impression that the OT Yahweh was a volcano god...

Yup, I think the champs will walk over the chumps...

Back to your question to Omega: it does seem he's saying "real" Christians weren't around until after the Reformation. Which seems to imply "real" Christianity was lost sometime after the apostles got it and the Roman church was established.

 

[OMEGA]

ZAK,

I was just trying to show that Allsmiles has no reason to Blame Christians for doing Evil

because the Catholics are not Christians but a Pagan, Idolotrous organization.

 

[Granite]

Omega: the least you can do is cite your sources, as opposed to being lazy or trying to give the impression this stuff is actually your material.

 

[allsmiles]

ZAK,

I was just trying to show that Allsmiles has no reason to Blame Christians for doing Evil

because the Catholics are not Christians but a Pagan, Idolotrous organization.

ahem...

In 1204 AD, Roman Catholic crusaders of the Fourth Crusade attacked and sacked Constantinople

the protestant reformation did not begin until the 16th century dear OMEGA.

are you telling us that "real" christians did not exist until after the 1500's?

and if that is not what you're telling us, than where were all the "real" christians?

 

[Zakath]

Interesting points; Smiles, Granite...

Well, OMEGA? :think:

 

[Frank Ernest]

:yawn:

If worshipping a Middle Eastern tribal sky god with a bloodlust keeps you happy, more power to you.

:darwinsm: Hey! If worshipping yourself makes you happy, go for it!

 

[Granite]

I don't. What you people don't know is a lot.

And it appears that Omega has gone AWOL, which is lazy and convenient.

 

[Zakath]

:darwinsm: Hey! If worshipping yourself makes you happy, go for it!

worship
The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.

As nearly as I can tell, Granite doesn't take himself seriously enough to be an object of self-worship.

 

[Granite]

Too true. If anybody has a sense of humor, self-worship is the last thing on your mind.

 

[OMEGA]

I can't believe how IGNORANT you guys are:


The Catholics were Proud and Arrogant and spiteful and hatefilled and all around Bad Dudes
maskerading as God's Servants.

If you read your bible , you would see that a Real Christian is Humble, Peaceable, Honest,
Truthful, Full of Kindness and goodness and seeks to be at Peace with all men and women.

Just the Opposite of those ROTTEN, CARNAL TO THE CORE, Catholics.
YECK !!
---------------------

1Ti 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Jas 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Ro 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
1Pe 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

 

[OMEGA]

Real Christianity started with the 12 Apostles.

Who worshipped Jesus before and after he died and got up
and walked and talked with the hundreds of people.

1Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once;