Thanks Bob

[PKevman]

Not so fast. We are now, that is true. But that certainly was not the case prior to the Civil War.

But then again they didn't get everything right even before the Civil War because black people could be owned as property. Besides all of that, it really has nothing to do with our country today. It is not 1859 my friend.

And generally, this is the case. The issue PK is not whether murder is wrong, the issue is when life begins. This is why abortion is so muddled, esp to the liberals. They do not see the fetus as a human being. Until the Federal Government stands up and says life begins at conception, we will always have this problem.

I think I can agree with this Doc. I think that stating the fetus is a human being would only be the first step, but people have willingly redefined fetuses in order to make provision for their sin. Kids these days have a mindset that abortion is just another form of birth control to avoid the consequences of their sexual sin.

 

[PKevman]

Good grief, PK. Wont you deal with reality. No one believes in murder. Oh and by the way. No human is subject to God's law. Jesus bore that law on calvary. We as chrildren of God are the only righteousness the world will ever see. We are in the world but not of it. So quit preaching law and show righteousness. I am tired of your legal garbage that has been proven that no man can keep. So get off it and help in the real world and not your little fantasy world.

You have no clue what you are talking about and you don't know me. You should seriously watch yourself as you are hurling more of your false accusations.

 

[PKevman]

E4E, God did not cancel Do not murder at any time during the history of mankind. If so, please provide the Scripture verse which clearly teaches that it is ok for men to murder now in the eyes of God.

 

[PKevman]

I am tired of your legal garbage that has been proven that no man can keep.

Why do you turn what should be civil conversations into hurl fests? Do you know what I'm tired of E4E? I'm tired of your false teaching. I'm tired of you telling people that you do not sin and that Christians do not sin, and if a person sins they aren't a Christian. I am tired of you claiming that my Lord Jesus Christ is not God and denying His deity. Do you really want to talk about what we are tired of? Or do you want to discuss the topic at hand?

 

[drbrumley]

But then again they didn't get everything right even before the Civil War because black people could be owned as property.

Not so.....Constitutionally they could not, not without committing an injustice. Which they did.

Besides all of that, it really has nothing to do with our country today. It is not 1859 my friend.

Your right, it isn't 1859. But the same principle applies today as it did then. And this is where public school has failed, parents have failed, government officials have failed. As the old saying goes, the victor goes the spoils. The Federal Government today can thank Lincoln and his empire he concocted.

I think I can agree with this Doc. I think that stating the fetus is a human being would only be the first step, but people have willingly redefined fetuses in order to make provision for their sin. Kids these days have a mindset that abortion is just another form of birth control to avoid the consequences of their sexual sin.

That's true. A fetus has been redefined for convenience.It now goes back full circle to changing hearts and minds, as the Bible instructs.

 

[PKevman]

Lets not get off topic here.

I agree, the conversation has been quite interesting up to this point.

 

[PKevman]

That's true. A fetus has been redefined for convenience.It now goes back full circle to changing hearts and minds, as the Bible instructs.

And this we agree upon 100% :up:

 

[elected4ever]

E4E, God did not cancel Do not murder at any time during the history of mankind. If so, please provide the Scripture verse which clearly teaches that it is ok for men to murder now in the eyes of God.

PK, I don't think that the unbeliever believes in murder. The problem is defining murder. The world has no standard. The Roman's would just through out the baby they didn't wont. We took the cast aways and raised them. Now we have to teach when life begins and that understanding has to be codified into law. The laws of the nation is the only law that the unsaved understand. I had much rather have the starting point as life than legally nonexistent.

 

[S†ephen]

Hey,

Yup Pastor Kevin it's Stephen Dale.

My point is this:

I totally agree that abortion is wrong. However, the founding fathers saw the eminent danger in creating a massive federal monster. The jump from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution was big enough as it was. I'm with Mr. Kevin that God given rights supersede states rights anytime. But our Constitution was not designed to give the government the Federal style power it has now.:execute: It was designed to be a powerful protector of individual states and their rights. I believe that if we use the Federal leviathan we have now to try and outlaw abortion we're going to do the right thing the wrong way. Abortion is one of the many crimes our government commits, and it's obvious that if they're going to ignore things such as the 14th amendment they'll ignore other just as important things as well.

I'm going to side with Ron Paul on this one because he sees the big picture. If we take the abortion issue back down to the state level as the founding fathers first envisioned then Christians can tackle it state by state :bannana: as opposed to trying to overwhelm a monster that's far far bigger in the Federal government.


Stephen

 

[drbrumley]

And this we agree upon 100% :up:

Awesome, but truth be told, I am more interested in what we disagree on and discuss them without the name calling and crappy accusations that fly all over this board.

 

[PKevman]

Awesome, but truth be told, I am more interested in what we disagree on and discuss them without the name calling and crappy accusations that fly all over this board.

I agree again my friend. I have no problem having a civil discourse with someone I disagree with. My friend and his son have both joined TOL and we have had disagreements on political issues over the years, but have always maintained our fellowship in Christ.

 

[drbrumley]

Hey,

Yup Pastor Kevin it's Stephen Dale.

My point is this:

I totally agree that abortion is wrong. However, the founding fathers saw the eminent danger in creating a massive federal monster. The jump from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution was big enough as it was. I'm with Mr. Kevin that God given rights supersede states rights anytime. But our Constitution was not designed to give the government the Federal style power it has now.:execute: It was designed to be a powerful protector of individual states and their rights. I believe that if we use the Federal leviathan we have now to try and outlaw abortion we're going to do the right thing the wrong way. Abortion is one of the many crimes our government commits, and it's obvious that if they're going to ignore things such as the 14th amendment they'll ignore other just as important things as well.

I'm going to side with Ron Paul on this one because he sees the big picture. If we take the abortion issue back down to the state level as the founding fathers first envisioned then Christians can tackle it state by state :bannana: as opposed to trying to overwhelm a monster that's far far bigger in the Federal government.


Stephen

Alot of wisdom for a young one.

As for Ron Paul, I really really like the man. And I like his Sanctity of Life bill EXCEPT where he writes if a state legalizes it, the court must stay out of it.

 

[PKevman]

Alot of wisdom for a young one.

As for Ron Paul, I really really like the man. And I like his Sanctity of Life bill EXCEPT where he writes if a state legalizes it, the court must stay out of it.

Yes he's a great kid too. My son and he are buddies, and I've known him since he was knee-high to a tadpole.

I am no fan of Ron Paul, and I despise the Libertarian party and quite a bit of its positions.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Good grief, PK. Wont you deal with reality. No one believes in murder. Oh and by the way. No human is subject to God's law. Jesus bore that law on calvary. We as chrildren of God are the only righteousness the world will ever see. We are in the world but not of it. So quit preaching law and show righteousness. I am tired of your legal garbage that has been proven that no man can keep. So get off it and help in the real world and not your little fantasy world.

PK, doesn't preach the law. That's ridiculous.

You can't make posts like this on TOL anymore. Your false accusations are finished.

Please stop, or go away permanently.

 

[PKevman]

Hey,

Yup Pastor Kevin it's Stephen Dale.

My point is this:

I totally agree that abortion is wrong. However, the founding fathers saw the eminent danger in creating a massive federal monster. The jump from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution was big enough as it was. I'm with Mr. Kevin that God given rights supersede states rights anytime. But our Constitution was not designed to give the government the Federal style power it has now.:execute: It was designed to be a powerful protector of individual states and their rights. I believe that if we use the Federal leviathan we have now to try and outlaw abortion we're going to do the right thing the wrong way. Abortion is one of the many crimes our government commits, and it's obvious that if they're going to ignore things such as the 14th amendment they'll ignore other just as important things as well.

I'm going to side with Ron Paul on this one because he sees the big picture. If we take the abortion issue back down to the state level as the founding fathers first envisioned then Christians can tackle it state by state :bannana: as opposed to trying to overwhelm a monster that's far far bigger in the Federal government.


Stephen

I would be for whatever works in stopping the killing of innocent children. I am just not sold that this is the correct strategy.

I am glad to see you and your dad on TOL buddy. Hey I know it's off topic, but Betsy said to tell your mom about her blog. She thinks Alice might really like reading it. She said tell Alice hi also.

 

[kmoney]

If Bush passed himself off as a pro-life Christian so well, isn't possible Ron Paul is doing the same? :think:

I think it's not only possible, but actual.

Even with Paul being pro-life he wouldn't get the votes that Bush got.

 

[drbrumley]

1.) I am no fan of Ron Paul, and 2.)I despise the Libertarian party and quite a bit of its positions.

1. Obviously.

2. So do I.

 

[PKevman]

1. Obviously.

2. So do I.

So what do you think stops you from fully supporting a guy like Alan Keyes? We don't have a perfect politician unfortunately, but Keyes is a good man I believe.

 

[S†ephen]

Mr. Kevin

Aside from party affiliations (as Ron is now with the Republicans) in what ways do you believe Alan is better than Ron?

 

[elected4ever]

So what do you think stops you from fully supporting a guy like Alan Keyes? We don't have a perfect politician unfortunately, but Keyes is a good man I believe.

Because Alan Keys is the wrong man for the job. I haven't seen the right man yet. I guess the Tom Tancrado is the closest right now. I don't know that i even spelled his name right. Being a good man by itself is not qualification enough for me.