ECT Tet and IP: so what's the bottom line, really?

[Danoh]

It's a Holfordian coincidence!

The Scripture teaches the Lord turns the wisdom of this world against itself and to His advantage.

Well, Tet's wisdom of this world has resulted in something similar.

My looking into Darby to see for myself just what it was he had held to...

Only to end up finding just how much Tet is actually opposed to much that was actually sound.

Ad hominem, my foot.

The truth of the matter is that Tet is simply a lying, slandering, incompetent.

All the so called experts against Darby are - every single one of them - are not only parrots parroting the shoddy "research" of those who's books "about" they get the nonsense they parrot "about" Darby out of, but just as slanderingly as those who walked their crooked mile before them.

 

[Wick Stick]

Our only job as ambassadors is the ministry of reconciliation.

Ok, let's start with that: ambassador. What's that job description look like?

We are not here to fix the world system. It cannot be fixed. It must be destroyed by the LORD.

Well, yeah. :duh:

I would agree with the preterists who would say he destroyed it in 70AD. But they probably wouldn't like the part where I mention that He's destroyed it a bunch of times before that, and a bunch more since then.

I like how you say 'world system.' That's kosmos - you got it just right. We're not supposed to fix that mess.

We're supposed to establish a rival system, right along/beside/within the other system. Then we stand there as an ambassador, the one dude in the room that is following a different regime, a different king, and a set of rules, and everybody in the room knows it.

 

[musterion]

*You'll celebrate a resurgence of Judaism.

*It's bad enough to contradict Paul about two gospels. (Hint: did he use 'anathema' about anything else?)

*It turns Christ in Mt24A in to a space case, talking on and on 'urgently' about things X000 years in the future.

*It has already resulted in an unbelievable amount of ridicule of an evangelist who used the facts of the DofJ correctly, and confused the issue of whether it is a good thing to defeat a destructive skeptic like Payne in the public arena.

Once again...what exactly is at stake for us if we don't recant and renounce MAD?

 

[musterion]

What will happen to one who fails to believe it? Nothing! Nothing will happen

So you acknowledge God isn't going to do anything to dispensationalists...

and that is a shame. Something should happen.

...and you're willing to second guess (rebuke) Him for it.

 

[patrick jane]

Can I take a crack at the OP? I'm not xactly a preterist, but as an ex-dispensationalist, I find myself sympathetic to their cause of opposing dispensational end-times teaching.


The problem I have with the end-times teaching of many disp churches, is that they teach that God is absent from the world, and Christians are just waiting for Him to return. This abrogates the responsibility of the believer to act as God's hands and feet in the world.

As nearly as I can tell, the gospel is precisely the opposite of this. The good news is that God is here, in us and among us. To try to get directly to the point, God has a body currently, and that body is currently in the world, where it should be doing things, fixing thing, fixing people. We are that body.

What will happen to one who fails to believe it? Nothing! Nothing will happen, and that is a shame. Something should happen. God should be working through Christians to accomplish things.

A wussified group of Christians who sit around waiting for Someone to show up to save them is no good to anyone at all.

You were a "former" dispy? I can't tell by reading your drivel. What are you now?

 

[musterion]

We are not here to fix the world system. It cannot be fixed. It must be destroyed by the LORD.

It must and it will be. Ambassadorship implies alienation, hostility, enmity, but with at least one hand extended nonetheless.

Yet ambassadors are recalled before the outbreak of war (unless you're an American ambassador in Benghazi).

You'll never convince people that this world HAS to burn if they believe they've replaced Israel in the favor and purposes of God. It ALWAYS goes back to that sooner or later. THEY are now the chosen race. THEIRS is the Kingdom, and the whole earth. THEY will save the world and make it ready for His return, etc etc, by force if necessary. Most on TOL believe, to some degree or other, that THEY are here to save the world. And that they can save it. And will save it.

Because if the world burns -- even to be remade gloriously -- all their religious work will have been wasted. For crying out loud, man, just think of all the broken stained glass!

They won't stand for that. Like Mr. Hands and Feet above; he's just more honest about it.

 

[musterion]

PS: You are not really asking me to believe what the Bible says.
You are asking me to believe your interpretation of what the Bible says.

It's the Catholic thing to do.

 

[musterion]

Darby followers are responsible for the obesity epidemic, too.

Forgive me, brother, but you're thinking of John Nelson Carby.

 

[Interplanner]

Forgive me, brother, but you're thinking of John Nelson Carby.

lol!!!

 

[Interplanner]

Must wrote:
It ALWAYS goes back to that sooner or later. THEY are now the chosen race. THEIRS is the Kingdom, and the whole earth. THEY will save the world and make it ready for His return, etc etc, by force if necessary. Most on TOL believe, to some degree or other, that THEY are here to save the world. And that they can save it. And will save it.

There is no such vision in the NT. And there is no sense of 'saved' in the NT like this. It is simply not there in the one largest length ordinary-language chapter on the end of the world, 2 Peter 3. And most of what you've claimed is not even in the Rev--if it was meant to!

 

[musterion]

Must wrote:
It ALWAYS goes back to that sooner or later. THEY are now the chosen race. THEIRS is the Kingdom, and the whole earth. THEY will save the world and make it ready for His return, etc etc, by force if necessary. Most on TOL believe, to some degree or other, that THEY are here to save the world. And that they can save it. And will save it.

There is no such vision in the NT.

I didn't say there was.

I said that is what most believe.

 

[tetelestai]

Think about it Tet,,,you are speaking of the issue between him and the French pres. which was that he told him that Gog and Magog was rising up in Iraq...

Correct.

So lets see now Dispies believe that the Mill. has not yet began(parentheses)and that the events leading up to them are "future".

Most Dispies believe that once the rapture takes place, Jesus comes back again in seven years. So, the Gog Magog would need to start rising up before the rapture (which is what Bush was told), in order to wage war near the end of the Trib.

Now on the other hand for Bush to believe that "Gog/Magog" being deceived by the Devil,after being loosed for a little season equals what?,,,oh yes thats right "preterism!!!",,,yep only an preterist would think Gog/Magog prophecies were being fulfilled in our days in the middle east,,,

Wrong again.

Preterism is clear that Gog and Magog are events that took place in the first century.

Only Futurists believe Gog and Magog are yet future events.

 

[tetelestai]

Our only job as ambassadors is the ministry of reconciliation.

(Gal 2:10) All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along.

 

[Wick Stick]

So you acknowledge God isn't going to do anything to dispensationalists...

...and you're willing to second guess (rebuke) Him for it.

It would appear you have mis-read what I said.

Sometimes I can be a little obtuse, so I'll try to re-phrase. The sentiment being expressed is "..do anything through dispensationalists." I am attempting to shift the emphasis from negative consequences to positive consequences. There aren't any, and that's not a good thing.

On the other hand, maybe you are mis-reading intentionally. If that's the case... well, ignore this and carry on.

 

[musterion]

That's fine. Still leaves a problem.

We, generally, strive to be more focused on the heavenly and eternal vs the earthly. Why? Because our apostle was . Not to the absolute exclusion of earthly things; just putting them in their passing, perishing context vs what's coming, which will not perish.

Do you think Christ agrees with your judgment that this focus makes us 'wussified'?

 

[Wick Stick]

You were a "former" dispy? I can't tell by reading your drivel. What are you now?

You know what I like about you, patrick jane? Even when you try to be snarky, you still come off as sincere. Call your mom and thank her for raising you well.

So many possible answers come to mind. Free. A student of the Bible. Someone who brings a hardhat to Bible study. I'm the guy taking the whole thing apart and putting it back together to learn how all the parts work together.

I realize you were hoping for a convenient label or affiliation, but I'm afraid I don't have one of those. My church is non-denominational. As touches end-times, we identify it as a non-essential of the faith, and have no official position or teaching on the subject. Actually, we allow for diverse opinions on several of the more vigorously debated theological questions. We try to emphasize unity rather than our differences, and we encourage activism.

 

[musterion]

A student of the Bible. Someone who brings a hardhat to Bible study. I'm the guy taking the whole thing apart and putting it back together to learn how all the parts work together.

Why did Christ send Paul forth to the Gentile world when He had already commissioned the 12 to go to the Gentile world, starting with Israel?

 

[patrick jane]

You know what I like about you, patrick jane? Even when you try to be snarky, you still come off as sincere. Call your mom and thank her for raising you well.

So many possible answers come to mind. Free. A student of the Bible. Someone who brings a hardhat to Bible study. I'm the guy taking the whole thing apart and putting it back together to learn how all the parts work together.

I realize you were hoping for a convenient label or affiliation, but I'm afraid I don't have one of those. My church is non-denominational. As touches end-times, we identify it as a non-essential of the faith, and have no official position or teaching on the subject. Actually, we allow for diverse opinions on several of the more vigorously debated theological questions. We try to emphasize unity rather than our differences, and we encourage activism.

I see, so you're a Jehova now, thanks -

 

[patrick jane]

Correct.



Most Dispies believe that once the rapture takes place, Jesus comes back again in seven years. So, the Gog Magog would need to start rising up before the rapture (which is what Bush was told), in order to wage war near the end of the Trib.



Wrong again.

Preterism is clear that Gog and Magog are events that took place in the first century.

Only Futurists believe Gog and Magog are yet future events.

Show me where Gog and Magog happened in the first century.

 

[steko]

Show me where Gog and Magog happened in the first century.

.....or any other time in the past.