ST. JOHN 11:26

[Jacob]

Now...... but before the cross, they had to wait in the place of the dead.

Not sure.

That was a typo, Jacob. Should have been "friend".

You're correct. Lazarus died again. Christ is the firstfruits.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.​

That makes sense. Meaning His second coming I believe.

 

[way 2 go]

Jesus had not yet ascended to the Father. That means Paradise was still below at that time.

maybe ,

Jesus had not yet ascended but sin was paid for .

and the other 2 references in the bible to paradise are of heaven

2Co_12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Rev_2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

that being said the thing we agree on is the criminal was conscious with God after he died .

 

[way 2 go]

Being raised from the dead is not the same as being resurrected.

:up:

Lazarus died again & is awaiting the resurrection



Php 3:21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

 

[way 2 go]

How did you conclude that Jesus was the first to rise from the dead bodily? If Lazarus was bound with graveclothes, thaT sounds like a bodily resurrection to me.

And it sounds like Lazarus wouldn't have been t he first either.

Act_26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

 

[way 2 go]

Not sure.

That makes sense. Meaning His second coming I believe.

1Co 15:50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

1Co 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

 

[Jacob]

1Co 15:50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

1Co 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

Thank you for this. Please explain what you are trying to say to me here.

 

[way 2 go]

Thank you for this. Please explain what you are trying to say to me here.

this explains our future resurrected bodies as opposed to the few people who were raised from the dead that died again

1Co 15:50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

1Co 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

 

[Jacob]

this explains our future resurrected bodies as opposed to the few people who were raised from the dead that died again

1Co 15:50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

1Co 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

I don't have a record of anyone who died again but that is what I believe.

 

[Rosenritter]

Being raised from the dead is not the same as being resurrected.

Interesting. I can say this. Are you just saying it? I also see them as the same.

Romans 6:5-9 KJV
(5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
(6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
(7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
(8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
(9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

1 Corinthians 15:42 KJV
(42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

"Resurrection" and "raised from the dead" are synonyms. This can also be established by comparing the different gospel accounts that use these words interchangeably between authors.

Matthew 22:31-32 KJV
(31) But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
(32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mark 12:26-27 KJV
(26) And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
(27) He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Luke 20:34-38 KJV
(34) And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
(35) But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
(36) Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
(37) Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
(38) For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

For the same event and conversation, these gospel writers record using these three terms which we must assume are identical in meaning:

1. But as touching the resurrection of the dead,
2. And as touching the dead, that they rise
3. Now that the dead are raised

 

[Rosenritter]

Act_26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

OK, I see your source text now, but doesn't it seem to you that the context of Acts 26:23 is speaking of rising from the dead to immortality and eternal life?

We have those other passages (already cited) that does speak of others rising from the dead, and these also:

John 12:17-18 KJV
(17) The people therefore that was with him when he called Lazarus out of his grave, and raised him from the dead, bare record.
(18) For this cause the people also met him, for that they heard that he had done this miracle.

Matthew 27:50-53 KJV
(50) Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
(51) And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
(52) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(53) And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

[Jacob]

Romans 6:5-9 KJV
(5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
(6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
(7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
(8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
(9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

1 Corinthians 15:42 KJV
(42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

"Resurrection" and "raised from the dead" are synonyms. This can also be established by comparing the different gospel accounts that use these words interchangeably between authors.

Matthew 22:31-32 KJV
(31) But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
(32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mark 12:26-27 KJV
(26) And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
(27) He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Luke 20:34-38 KJV
(34) And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
(35) But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
(36) Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
(37) Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
(38) For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

For the same event and conversation, these gospel writers record using these three terms which we must assume are identical in meaning:

1. But as touching the resurrection of the dead,
2. And as touching the dead, that they rise
3. Now that the dead are raised

This post should be nominated for an award. I do not know how to do it.

 

[way 2 go]

OK, I see your source text now, but doesn't it seem to you that the context of Acts 26:23 is speaking of rising from the dead to immortality and eternal life?

We have those other passages (already cited) that does speak of others rising from the dead, and these also:

John 12:17-18 KJV
(17) The people therefore that was with him when he called Lazarus out of his grave, and raised him from the dead, bare record.
(18) For this cause the people also met him, for that they heard that he had done this miracle.

Matthew 27:50-53 KJV
(50) Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
(51) And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
(52) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(53) And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Jesus rose from the dead in a Glorified body which he was the first to do so
and so far the only one to do so

Php 3:21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.



this is the first person I can think of to be raised from the dead only to die again

1Ki 17:21 Then he stretched himself upon the child three times and cried to the LORD, "O LORD my God, let this child's life come into him again."
1Ki 17:22 And the LORD listened to the voice of Elijah. And the life of the child came into him again, and he revived.

 

[Rosenritter]

Being raised from the dead is not the same as being resurrected.

Jesus rose from the dead in a Glorified body which he was the first to do so
and so far the only one to do so

Php 3:21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.



this is the first person I can think of to be raised from the dead only to die again

1Ki 17:21 Then he stretched himself upon the child three times and cried to the LORD, "O LORD my God, let this child's life come into him again."
1Ki 17:22 And the LORD listened to the voice of Elijah. And the life of the child came into him again, and he revived.

So we agree that others had been raised from the dead (raised from death) but they all died again, as they were not raised to eternal life... but the exception being Christ, this being the context spoken of in Acts 26:23. Perfect.

 

[glorydaz]

Romans 6:5-9 KJV
(5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
(6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
(7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
(8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
(9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

1 Corinthians 15:42 KJV
(42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

"Resurrection" and "raised from the dead" are synonyms. This can also be established by comparing the different gospel accounts that use these words interchangeably between authors.

Matthew 22:31-32 KJV
(31) But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
(32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mark 12:26-27 KJV
(26) And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
(27) He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Luke 20:34-38 KJV
(34) And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
(35) But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
(36) Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
(37) Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
(38) For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

For the same event and conversation, these gospel writers record using these three terms which we must assume are identical in meaning:

1. But as touching the resurrection of the dead,
2. And as touching the dead, that they rise
3. Now that the dead are raised

Guess you don't take context in account.

For instance, Lazarus was raised from the dead, but he wasn't part of the resurrection.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Luke 7:12 Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her. 13 And when the Lord saw her, he had compassion on her, and said unto her, Weep not. 14 And he came and touched the bier: and they that bare him stood still. And he said, Young man, I say unto thee, Arise. 15 And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak. And he delivered him to his mother.​

Are you seriously going to quibble about these cases being resurrections? They aren't.

Edit: I see I may have spoken too hastily.

I should add that the resurrected are raised, but not all those who are raised are resurrected. Resurrection includes rising and changing into a spiritual body.

 

[Derf]

I don't have a record of anyone who died again but that is what I believe.

It's an interesting question. We assume that all of the people whom Jesus raised from the dead died again (not to mention the others, like Tabitha/Dorcas, whom Peter raised, or the child Elijah revived). But we don't know, as no record is provided. If it appointed unto man once to die, and then comes judgment, do these deaths not qualify?

I read an interesting proposition about the gospel of John some months ago. It suggested that maybe John wasn't actually the author, or at least not the author of all of it. Since the author is not named, but only identified as "the disciple whom Jesus loved", it doesn't have to be John. The suggestion was that Lazarus wrote a good part of the gospel of John (the reasoning was interesting, but I'll not go over it here). Then these words would have an interesting undertone to them:

[Jhn 21:23 KJV] Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what [is that] to thee?
[Jhn 21:24 KJV] This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

These verses say that Jesus didn't say that that disciple would not die. But they don't say that he DID die, either.

 

[Jacob]

It's an interesting question. We assume that all of the people whom Jesus raised from the dead died again (not to mention the others, like Tabitha/Dorcas, whom Peter raised, or the child Elijah revived). But we don't know, as no record is provided. If it appointed unto man once to die, and then comes judgment, do these deaths not qualify?

I read an interesting proposition about the gospel of John some months ago. It suggested that maybe John wasn't actually the author, or at least not the author of all of it. Since the author is not named, but only identified as "the disciple whom Jesus loved", it doesn't have to be John. The suggestion was that Lazarus wrote a good part of the gospel of John (the reasoning was interesting, but I'll not go over it here). Then these words would have an interesting undertone to them:

[Jhn 21:23 KJV] Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what [is that] to thee?
[Jhn 21:24 KJV] This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

These verses say that Jesus didn't say that that disciple would not die. But they don't say that he DID die, either.

I think you are saying that Lazarus didn't necessarily write it. I would say John wrote his gospel (account).

It is important that people come back to life again and is this different from coming back from the dead?

Certainly these people were raised from the dead. I know that there is judgment that comes after death. When is it? And, can a person be dead for a long time before they are raised from the dead? How long? There are things that I don't understand. Would you be willing to talk about the nature of death and resurrection or being raised from the dead alongside a discussion of the rapture?

 

[Rosenritter]

It's an interesting question. We assume that all of the people whom Jesus raised from the dead died again (not to mention the others, like Tabitha/Dorcas, whom Peter raised, or the child Elijah revived). But we don't know, as no record is provided. If it appointed unto man once to die, and then comes judgment, do these deaths not qualify?

I read an interesting proposition about the gospel of John some months ago. It suggested that maybe John wasn't actually the author, or at least not the author of all of it. Since the author is not named, but only identified as "the disciple whom Jesus loved", it doesn't have to be John. The suggestion was that Lazarus wrote a good part of the gospel of John (the reasoning was interesting, but I'll not go over it here). Then these words would have an interesting undertone to them:

[Jhn 21:23 KJV] Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what [is that] to thee?
[Jhn 21:24 KJV] This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

These verses say that Jesus didn't say that that disciple would not die. But they don't say that he DID die, either.

When that gospel goes to specific effort to say that "that disciple should not die" was not what Jesus actually said, it does seem to imply that mistake of hearing was also a mistake of understanding.

 

[Rosenritter]

I think you are saying that Lazarus didn't necessarily write it. I would say John wrote his gospel (account).

It is important that people come back to life again and is this different from coming back from the dead?

Certainly these people were raised from the dead. I know that there is judgment that comes after death. When is it? And, can a person be dead for a long time before they are raised from the dead? How long? There are things that I don't understand. Would you be willing to talk about the nature of death and resurrection or being raised from the dead alongside a discussion of the rapture?

For a starting point, what impression of death and resurrection do you get when you read the law (the Torah?)

 

[way 2 go]

When that gospel goes to specific effort to say that "that disciple should not die" was not what Jesus actually said, it does seem to imply that mistake of hearing was also a mistake of understanding.

Joh 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

this would be a different thread but


actually the disciples were living like they expected the lords return
in their lifetime Act 4:32

but something that was supposed to happen didn't Luk 13:6-7
so God did something different Luk 13:8-9

the plot change of Mid Acts Dispensation

 

[Jacob]

For a starting point, what impression of death and resurrection do you get when you read the law (the Torah?)

I don't really. I would need help with that, to look at Scripture.