ECT Speaking in tongues

[musterion]

I guess you have also added yourself to the list of ones who have lost their reading understanding glasses. I said, 'supposedly'.

Whoever told you he "supposedly" had Jesus speak to him was incorrect, according to the two not-quite-compatible versions of the guy's own testimony. You cited the "supposed" incident without checking it for yourself first, and you did it to shut us up. You were wrong.

 

[musterion]

Yes, as I have said, most of what 'pass as' speaking in tongues is DEFINITELY fake.

Good, now we're getting to the root issue: HOW do you determine which tongues are fake and which are real? NONE of them are ever identifiable human languages the speaker could not possibly know (that would be the miracle, and anecdotal evidence won't cut it). All modern "tongues" are gibberish "angel language" or "private prayer language." Gibberish and babble cannot be distinguished from more gibberish and babble. So HOW do you do it?

 

[lifeisgood]

I don't think "OK" is a proper response, unless you just want to leave folks in their delusions.

I do not have the power to prove to them otherwise; only God can do that.
I can expound what I believe the Bible says (and that is if the Holy Spirit opens up the conversation about it), but I have no power to change anybody's beliefs, exactly, as no one has the power to change mine. Only God can do that.

 

[musterion]

I can expound what I believe the Bible says

Do you believe the Bible says 1 Cor 14:22?

 

[serpentdove]

...There was the pre-Christian era and now there is Christ.

The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed. The New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. This guy's a regular Thomas Jefferson--cutting out any challenging verse of scripture. No eyes to see, no ears to hear.

*Shake off the dust from your feet moment*

Related:

Lordship

 

[lifeisgood]

Good, now we're getting to the root issue: HOW do you determine which tongues are fake and which are real? NONE of them are ever identifiable human languages the speaker could not possibly know (that would be the miracle, and anecdotal evidence won't cut it). All modern "tongues" are gibberish "angel language" or "private prayer language." Gibberish and babble cannot be distinguished from more gibberish and babble. So HOW do you do it?

Again, I do not enter into a back and forth about it. If the person says that he/she speaks in tongues, I leave that in the purview of God as I am not the other person and I cannot prove that that is a true gift given by the Holy Spirit or not for I am not the Holy Spirit either.

It is MY belief that when we as Christians enter into a 'God does not do that that way. God only does that this way', we are denying God the honor, the power, and the glory due Him.

You are entrenched in PROVING the HOW.

I am entrenched in letting Him PROVE it Himself to the person claiming whatever it is the person is claiming.

 

[lifeisgood]

Do you believe the Bible says 1 Cor 14:22?

Absolutely!

However, I also believe this:
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;

1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all:

1Co 14:15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding.

 

[lifeisgood]

Whoever told you he "supposedly" had Jesus speak to him was incorrect, according to the two not-quite-compatible versions of the guy's own testimony. You cited the "supposed" incident without checking it for yourself first, and you did it to shut us up. You were wrong.

Still wasting your time on this are you, musterion?
Have at it musterion.

 

[Tambora]

Yes, as I have said, most of what 'pass as' speaking in tongues is DEFINITELY fake.

I don't know of any case where any tongue talker today has been proven to be a true biblical tongue talker.

If you can so easily say that a lot of tongue talkers today are fake, then there has to be a way to distinguish which is fake and which isn't fake.

 

[musterion]

Again, I do not enter into a back and forth about it.

Why not?

If modern tongues are true, then those (like me) who believe they've been deactivated are deceived. But proof (per the Biblical examples) can only convince us, edify the Body and bring glory to God.

If modern tongues are false, then proving that (also per the Biblical examples) will free those who are presently deceived, edify the Body and bring glory to God.

The problem here is not on the cessationist side. It's on the charismatic side which makes great claims on God BUT REFUSES TO PROVIDE THE PROOF THAT WILL SETTLE THE ISSUE FOREVER.

 

[musterion]

Still wasting your time on this are you, musterion?
Have at it musterion.

Oh I see how it works now.

You posted something that you hadn't checked out in order to shut us up.

When it did not stand up to examination, now it's suddenly a waste of time.

Got it.

 

[lifeisgood]

Why not?

What good would it do? Would my back and forth give God His due glory, and power, and honor? Don't think so.

If modern tongues are true, then those (like me) who believe they've been deactivated are deceived. But proof (per the Biblical examples) can only convince us, edify the Body and bring glory to God.

And you are God and you have the power to PROVE to the person claiming to speak in tongues, e.g., that he/she is deceived and you just made a Christian enemy.

If modern tongues are false, then proving that (also per the Biblical examples) will free those who are presently deceived, edify the Body and bring glory to God.

You want to work on that freeway, please have at.

The problem here is not on the cessationist side. It's on the charismatic side which makes great claims on God BUT REFUSES TO PROVIDE THE PROOF.

Did the people at Pentecost and AFTER provided any PROOF or were asked to PROVE that what was happening to them was of God?

Did Paul ask for PROOF in Acts 19:6? How DARE Paul intentionally impose his hands 'forcing' them to speak in tongues? How dare Paul do that.

Did Peter and John ask for PROOF in Acts 8:17?

Emphasis on PROOF.

 

[Danoh]

Probably a good reason why he's been on *ignore* since I joined.

Apparantly not :chuckle:

 

[Tambora]

I do not have the power to prove to them otherwise; only God can do that.
I can expound what I believe the Bible says (and that is if the Holy Spirit opens up the conversation about it), but I have no power to change anybody's beliefs, exactly, as no one has the power to change mine. Only God can do that.

You do realize that by that standard, not a single tongue talker could ever know if they are speaking in some unknown angelic language.
It seems that if you really believe it cannot be proven to be true or false, then no one can rightly claim that they DO speak in a tongue that is biblical.
So rather than tell them 'OK', you should tell them that there is no way for them to know that, and that they might be holding on to something that is completely fake.

 

[lifeisgood]

Oh I see how it works now.

You posted something that you hadn't checked out in order to shut us up.

When it did not stand up to examination, now it's suddenly a waste of time.

Got it.

You give me too much power musterion.

Why don't instead of that freeway you give God praise and honor and glory that He and He alone saved Nabeel?

Can't do that can you musterion.

I am not here to PROVE anything about Nabeel. I really can care less if Nabeel was sitted, standing, sleeping, awake, Muslim or not, tall or short, born in the USA or in space.

I praise God that He and He alone chose to save Nabeel and save such a one as me.

 

[musterion]

You do realize that by that standard, not a single tongue talker could ever know if they are speaking in some unknown angelic language.
It seems that if you really believe it cannot be proven to be true or false, then no one can rightly claim that they DO speak in a tongue that is biblical.
So rather than tell them 'OK', you should tell them that there is no way for them to know that, and that they might be holding on to something that is completely fake.

Yup.

 

[musterion]

What good would it do? Would my back and forth give God His due glory, and power, and honor? Don't think so.

Believers are supposed to hate EVERY false way.

One of these two ways is false.

Testing all things to find out which side is lying about Him -- by proving either that He's not giving the sign gifts OR that He is still giving them -- can't possibly be a bad thing. Either result would glorify Him because it would be TRUE.

But you obviously don't want to go there. None of you do. We know why, and it's got nothing to do with defending God's honor.

Bye.

 

[lifeisgood]

You do realize that by that standard, not a single tongue talker could ever know if they are speaking in some unknown angelic language.
It seems that if you really believe it cannot be proven to be true or false, then no one can rightly claim that they DO speak in a tongue that is biblical.
So rather than tell them 'OK', you should tell them that there is no way for them to know that, and that they might be holding on to something that is completely fake.

Again, it is NOT my job to prove anything to anybody, neither do I have the power, nor want the power, to do so.

If (notice the if) you say that you speak in tongues, it will matter not how much I tell you that what is happening to you is not true, will it?

All I can do is expound on what I believe. I leave the proving to God.

 

[lifeisgood]

Believers are supposed to hate EVERY false way.

Correct.

One of these two ways is false.

Correct.

Testing all things to find out which side is lying about Him -- by proving either that He's not giving the sign gifts OR that He is still giving them -- can't possibly be a bad thing. Either result would glorify Him because it would be TRUE.

You CANNOT prove either way if your life depended on it if the person in front of you is really speaking in tongues given by God or not. Neither can I. Only God can do the proving.

You believe that all tongues have ceased. That is your prerogative. Some believe that they have not. That is their prerogative. How can you prove that? You can't. All musterion, or lifeisgood, or any Christian can do is expound on what they believe.

I, lifeisgood, leave the proving to God.

But you obviously don't want to go there. None of you do. We know why, and it's got nothing to do with defending God's honor.

I have gone there. I told you I believe that much of what 'pass as' speaking in tongues today is FALSE.

However, musterion, the last time I checked I, lifeisgood, am NOT God and I, lifeisgood, CANNOT for a certainty PROVE that EVERY single PERSON claiming to speak in tongues is lying. I can't do that, musterion and neither can you.

You, musterion, need proof.
I, lifeisgood, leave the proving to God.

Bye

 

[Danoh]

Oh, c'mon Christian brothers and sisters, get off the 'dream thingy', 'speaking in tongues thingy', etc. freeway.

I cannot believe that you guys are still in that freeway that takes lost people no where and make Christians look foolish.

Does it really matter, brothers and sisters, if Nabeel said he was 'seated' or he was 'standing'?
Would it not be better if we rejoice like the Angels rejoiced when we were saved by God?

David Wood said that Nabeel said that he was 'seated' when he told him the 'dream'.
William Lane Craig said in one of his conferences that 2 x 2 = 5. Yeah, please go and waste your time finding out if it is true or not so that you can go to sleep tonight just to make sure that you are right and he is wrong.

Satan is having a field day and Christians are at a loss for an answer 'cause instead of Christ Jesus and His finished legal work at the Cross of Calvary, they engage in finding out if they agree with someone's else testimony, just in case they can be tripped and be told, 'no, you are not saved, because that is not the way God saves anyone. God only saves anyone like this...'. Denying God of His glory, and His power, and His honor.

How sad. How sad indeed. How sad that instead of giving glory to God for Nabeel's salvation (or anyone else's) some have to make sure they agree with their testimony.

No wonder the world is laughing at the Christian world.




P.S.: Have at it guys. Waste your time. I will only respond if there is something constructive to be had.

P.S.S.: Praise God for saving Nabeel, dream or no dream, seated or stating, Muslim or no Muslim, etc., etc., etc.

P.S.S.S.: Please get off the 'suppose' dream thingy highway.

Only the legalist insists on anything but.

For, in reality; the plain and simple fact is that within The Faith; one will find those who insist on turning their liberty into another's stumbling.

Only to turn around and cry foul when it is pointed out to them.

One finds the same types within MAD.

We MADs do not escape the fact that such also end up wihtin our ranks.

As in all walks of life.

I knew a guy once who was all about AA.

Boy was he ever, though :chuckle:

A former "alcoholic;" he was now all about the ills of "alcoholism."

Ever attempting to "rightly divide" one and all about it.

It was as if right before he opened his door each morning to go out into the world, his thought was "now who's throat might I shove my knew found freedom down, today?"

Clearly, all he had done was traded in one aspect of his "just have to" compulsion, for another.

Some people do not take well to another's attempt to enslave them into their mess.

Press them enough, and sooner or later, they speak their mind :chuckle:

Man o man would he take great offense whenever one those would point out his mess to him :rotfl: