Some electors flipped after all

[Crucible]

Not really. I posted the central concerns of the founders a while back, noting a scholarly work on the point. Central to the concern was regionalism, which would be a natural consequence of a people divided by what was then a meaningful distance and the unfamiliarity that would bring. And the attitude toward campaigning and politics was far different. In any event, almost all of the initial concerns have been unraveled by technology and what we're left with is a process that from time to time puts a minority into a position of power it hasn't earned else.

The Fathers implied a distrust of pubic opinion solely dictating in just about everything they conceived.

America was, in part, a dumping ground for people who were unwanted in other countries- that's why this country was naturally rebellious (and still in many ways are). Conformity is not a friendly word in America, people are often spastic and arbitrary, and so they made a system that was both democratic and still resisted tyranny of majority.

The EC is part of that system- what you are stating is really just a cop out. Notice that Hillary got her votes largely in places of high infrastructure. There is still a divide, and the Left were planning on leaving them out altogether-
in fact they pretty much forgot they existed. That's why they are in shock that they lost.

 

[Right Divider]

I'm telling the truth about Trump. See how that works?

Funny

 

[aCultureWarrior]

He [Donald Trump] just destroyed both of the established political parties in the Untied States with the Main Stream Media against him from day one.

He did so while spending half as much money as his opponents.

He changed the map taking three states that hadn't gone red in six elections. Nobody expected Wisconsin and Michigan.

He is proof that our system still works, a complete outsider can swoop in and take the prize with less money than the establishment...

Being the professional con man that Donald Trump is, he fooled some people into believing that he is an anti Establishment "outsider". Yet looking at his transition team and Cabinet picks (GOP Establishment, Corporate CEO's and even some Obama appointees), it's obvious that he isn't.

 

[Town Heretic]

The Fathers implied a distrust of pubic opinion solely dictating in just about everything they conceived.

That's your read in.

America was, in part, a dumping ground for people who were unwanted in other countries

In part, any country that allowed immigrants was a dumping ground for some who were unwanted in their nation of origin.

-that's why this country was naturally rebellious (and still in many ways are).

That's a myth. It took a great deal of effort to move this nation to war with the Mother Country and more than a few eventual Americans resisted until it was impossible to resist. We weren't that different from the Europe for quite a while, which isn't surprising considering how many of us were first generation settlers or near to.

Conformity is not a friendly word in America

In America we mass produce t-shirts with UBU on them. lain: And many of us label people who don't respond uniformly in line with our expectations as unpatriotic or unAmerican. Some of us even cast individualistic thinkers among us out into the ideological cold and call them RINOS. That sort of thing. Conformity is alive and well in America. More so in some corners than others.

, people are often spastic and arbitrary, and so they made a system that was both democratic and still resisted tyranny of majority.

There's nothing about the president being elected by a popular vote that would support a tyranny. How can I know this? Easy, in almost every case the EC has rubber stamped the popular candidate.

The EC is part of that system- what you are stating is really just a cop out.

Slavery was a part of our economic system once too. There's nothing about my inquiry and contemplation that could be called a cop out, just as there's little about your position that could be called an argument.

Notice that Hillary got her votes largely in places of high infrastructure. There is still a divide, and the Left were planning on leaving them out altogether- in fact they pretty much forgot they existed. That's why they are in shock that they lost.

No, they're mostly in shock that they lost because just about everyone, including a lot of Republicans, expected their candidate to win.

 

[rocketman]

You seem to have a rather dim opinion of your fellow countrymen.

She has the same view as all elitist liberals have, and that her champion corrupt candidate has of her countryman, the blanket view that anyone that disagrees with them is a racist, a misogynist, a xenophobe, or a basket of deplorables...when you have no message, demonize those you oppose...it is the regressive liberal way.

 

[rocketman]

The slander against the woman is pretty amazing.

It is not slander if its true...

 

[rocketman]

He just destroyed both of the established political parties in the Untied States with the Main Stream Media against him from day one.

He did so while spending half as much money as his opponents.

He changed the map taking three states that hadn't gone red in six elections. Nobody expected Wisconsin and Michigan.

He is proof that our system still works, a complete outsider can swoop in and take the prize with less money than the establishment.

Admire him? I don't know if that's the word. He's a deeply flawed Human Being as we all are. I wouldn't use his life as any kind of model to emulate.

But you have to respect his accomplishment. Even if you hate the man he just pulled it off against incredible odds with the whole world against him with nothing but hard work and marketing genius.

Well put! Trump is not an admirable man but, to say he is not savvy enough to run a country after the feat he just pulled off in this election is absurd.

 

[Crucible]

Conformity is alive and well in America. More so in some corners than others.

The demographics of this election show quite plainly that conformity happens only where there are extreme populations. The fact is that the Left, over the past eight years, has been a conformist post which has turned a lot of society into slandering degenerates.

Everything is racist, sexist, bigoted, anon anon- name one single liberal complaint that hasn't included those words. A Latino kills a black kid and you all go after white people. A 95% Caucasian woman is a Native, and a 100% Caucasian woman is black. Men are women, but not women are men. I wonder why that is :think:

You're all lunatics.

There's nothing about the president being elected by a popular vote that would support a tyranny. How can I know this? Easy, in almost every case the EC has rubber stamped the popular candidate.

Except where it didn't.

Slavery was a part of our economic system once too. There's nothing about my inquiry and contemplation that could be called a cop out, just as there's little about your position that could be called an argument.

There needs to be a 'Godwins Law' pertaining to American slavery

No, they're mostly in shock that they lost because just about everyone, including a lot of Republicans, expected their candidate to win.

So in other words, you agree with exactly what I stated- they demonized and then forgot about half the country, thinking they had it in their palms :chuckle:

 

[rocketman]

She won't read this as she has me on ignore but, those numbers are thus Fool, you can share them with her.

He did so while spending half as much money as his opponents.

Do you have numbers for that? I'm not doubting you but I haven't seen numbers.

Hillary Clinton spent $450 million
President Trump spent $238 million

So yes, he spent less than half...:BRAVO:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...her-way-trumps-bid-changed-politics/93565370/

 

[Town Heretic]

The demographics of this election show quite plainly that conformity happens only where there are extreme populations. The fact is that the Left, over the past eight years, has been a conformist post which has turned a lot of society into slandering degenerates.

Nothing in that is objectively true and the party that's made a living out of conformist thinking for some time now has been the Republican Party, with it's castigation of individuals who vary as RINOs and those further out as unpatriotic and unAmerican, to underline the point you missed in the last bit.

Everything is racist, sexist, bigoted, anon anon- name one single liberal complaint that hasn't included those words.

I could list out any number, from the cost of college to infrastructure, but you wouldn't care.

A Latino kills a black kid and you all go after white people. A 95% Caucasian woman is a Native, and a 100% Caucasian woman is black. Men are women, but not women are men. I wonder why that is :think:

I wonder why you vomit across a page and consider it art.

You're all lunatics.

Like having your property valued by a Marxist.

Except where it didn't.

Five times in its history, meaning every other time it did and guess what, chicken-little, no tyrant. It's an empty, contrived worry to prop up a vacuous posit. Other than that you're doing great though. :thumb:

There needs to be a 'Godwins Law' pertaining to American slavery

That's a neat dodge. I'll help you out by giving you the larger comment that makes: all sorts of things have been a part of our nation that we aren't wild about now. An appeal to tradition, which is what you made, is a logical fallacy. Slavery was only an illustration of the problem you thought was a solution.

So in other words, you agree with exactly what I stated- they demonized and then forgot about half the country, thinking they had it in their palms

No. Nothing in my comments would support your demonization nonsense. I think that a lot of working people identify the Democratic Party as the historic protector and advocate of their cause, but I recognize that with the erosion of unions and the sorry state of a great deal of workplace reality that's been seriously eroded, and the notion of Democratic leadership being at the beck and call of a handful of special interests has hurt a once vital association. That Trump, a near emblem of the thing the average worker should view with a jaundiced eye, can look like a solution for the little guy speaks to it.

 

[Crucible]

Nothing in that is objectively true and the party that's made a living out of conformist thinking for some time now has been the Republican Party, with it's castigation of individuals who vary as RINOs and those further out as unpatriotic and unAmerican, to underline the point you missed in the last bit.

I'm not a Republican because of the fact that they are conformists- you'll even see it on here the way they establish a litmus on what makes one a 'conservative' as if they have the patent on it. Saying that abortion is a sin against nature, but nonetheless not 'murder', isn't good enough. Upholding the 2nd Amendment and yet addressing the over-veneration of guns isn't good enough- you have to be straight up in the boat with them on everything

But that doesn't mean the country is a conformist state. Trump's election is homage to that.

I could list out any number, from the cost of college to infrastructure, but you wouldn't care.

The issue with college costs are the student's fault as far as I'm concerned. Stop taking liberal arts and classes that you're not going to make a living on.
The most realistic thing for a lot of them is to go to a trade school, but I suppose a lot of them think themselves too mighty to be blue collar lain:

Five times in its history

That's five times America resisted becoming Europe :idunno:

That's a neat dodge. I'll help you out by giving you the larger comment that makes: all sorts of things have been a part of our nation that we aren't wild about now. An appeal to tradition, which is what you made, is a logical fallacy. Slavery was only an illustration of the problem you thought was a solution.

Appeal to tradition is not a logical fallacy on this subject- tradition is what makes a country, that's why the one's who are rich in it do a lot better then those who abandon them. You cannot breed good countrymen without tradition, it's been that way since Noah :wave2:

No. Nothing in my comments would support your demonization nonsense.

You all lost the election because they called half the country racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted, Nazis, the Devil :chuckle:, stupid, uneducated..
Then they proceeded to sue them and devalue their way of living.

They lost the entire government because of it, dude- stop pretending that it's something else.
America is probably the toughest country in the world to get anywhere with a fascist attitude. Lesson learned, Left.

 

[musterion]

It is not slander if its true...

She defended her (at best) serially adulterous if not (at worst) rapist husband. She laughed about getting a child rapist off the hook...yet leftist feminists cannot bring themselves to look objectively at how demonstrably evil Clinton has been her entire political career, which you would think feminists would be the first to decry.

Because they're evil too, and they don't actually believe any of the propaganda they spew at us.

 

[musterion]

She won't read this as she has me on ignore but, those numbers are thus Fool, you can share them with her.


Hillary Clinton spent $450 million
President Trump spent $238 million

So yes, he spent less than half...:BRAVO:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...her-way-trumps-bid-changed-politics/93565370/

Interesting.

 

[Crucible]

you would think feminists would be the first to decry.

Feminists don't decry anything as long it comes from a person that serves them. It's tell tale in their heroes like Margaret Sanger or Marilyn Monroe.
We're supposed to pretend there is a noble goal behind that? Yeah right. Leave it to liberal men to be under that sharp heel

 

[Town Heretic]

I'm not a Republican because of the fact that they are conformists

Didn't say you were. I said conformity is the meat and aggressive potatoes of the right wing of that party and it has been for some time.

But that doesn't mean the country is a conformist state. Trump's election is homage to that.

I don't see Trump's election as a slap at conformity, since the rank and file chose him. It's a slap at the inside power structure, or a natural evolutionary end of the rhetorical approach of those insiders, who were simply outsold on their own message by a guy who can sell, whatever else you think of him.

The issue with college costs are the student's fault as far as I'm concerned.

I don't care. You said give you an issue without one of your hot buttons. It's one of many that undoes your attempt at tying everything the left is concerned about into a few emotionally driven particular bits of outrage.

That's five times America resisted becoming Europe

That's another dodge of the point. Five of fifty-seven? That's not resistance, it's aberration.

Appeal to tradition is not a logical fallacy on this subject

It's actually a logical fallacy whenever its used.

You all lost the election

Between you and rm I'm beginning to understand how Trump won. You guys can't remember what a fellow said from post to post. Clinton wasn't my candidate and her party isn't my party.

because they called half the country racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted, Nazis, the Devil , stupid, uneducated..

Ironically enough, only the insufficiently educated would believe that. Or, if you voted for a guy because someone pointed out you'd have to be stupid to vote for him...you're making their point for them, whatever the outcome.

 

[annabenedetti]

Interesting.

rocketman might want to check his math. :chuckle:

 

[rocketman]

rocketman might want to check his math. :chuckle:

Maybe Anna should read the article and listen to the attached video, what she is exhibiting is denial. The numbers were derived from the Federal Election Commission and were posted on their site and have been rendered down by the Center For Responsible Politics which is cited below...enjoy.

P.S. The video in the previous link was wrong though, President Trump spent $248 million not $238 million and Clinton actually spent a whopping $498 Million not $450 million as the video said.

https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/

 

[fool]

Only the ones who are misogynists, xenophobes and racists. I don't know why you'd have a problem with that.

Do you think all Trump supporters are those things?

 

[musterion]

Hillary laughs about getting a child's rapist off, leftists say it's no big deal.

War on women, indeed.

 

[fool]

Are you kidding? The media carried his water from day one. He was viewers and clicks, baby, and he reaped millions in free publicity.

Are You Kidding? The Media threw bombs at him since day one. They called him every name in the book and laughed at him, he was the butt of every joke. He reaped Billions in free publicity, bad publicity, but since he painted the Media as part of the problem he wanted them attacking him. He tapped into the voters distrust of the media and every lash they dealt just made him stronger, the underdog, the little guy just like you and me.
He is the laser pointer and the Media are the cats.
Genius.

Do you have numbers for that? I'm not doubting you but I haven't seen numbers.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/09/trum...clinton-did-on-his-way-to-the-presidency.html

It's not the first time that's happened and it won't be the last, and they weren't by a lot.

The first time is six elections, which is my whole adult life.

If you can get those numbers, that would be great.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/09/trum...clinton-did-on-his-way-to-the-presidency.html

I don't think Trump would have made it as far as he did if there hadn't been 17 GOP candidates in the primary.

He dominated from the start, even when he lost the first primary his polls nationwide told the story.

What you see as extraordinary I see as the result of various missteps by both the GOP and the Dems.

So........it was a big "oops" by the two dominate political establishments in the most powerful country in the world?
Would you say it was an extraordinary oops?

So you don't admire him for his qualities as a man, only because he upended the place?

He is the brick thrown thru the window, a flawed cobble from the street, He's the guy with the TV show where he points his stubby little finger at people and says "You're Fired".

Could anyone else have pulled this off? Maybe. Perhaps Jesse Ventura or Arnold Schwarzenegger but they were already Governors and had been refined. The Donald came out with an appalling irreverence for the whole establishment Republican AND Democrat and the Media to boot. I don't know of anyone else crazy enough to pull off what Trump has, do you?

Actually, no I don't.

Well, can you at least be grateful that he put a stake thru the hearts of two Vampire Dynasties; the Clintons and Bushes?

Did you say similar when Obama won in 2008?

While it was hysterical to watch Obama steal Hillary's "turn" that was a different landscape. The Media Coronated Obama the day he announced his candidacy. As I recall Hills sped up her announcement because the Press were laying down at Obama's feet to make a sidewalk of themselves so his shoes wouldn't get dirty.

Nothing compared to the vitriol spewed by the Right at Trump when he was Leading Their Party.

The Donald is a way more left field out of nowhere upset than Obama was. Obama was at least a Senator and a keynote speaker at the previous DNC with no previous appearances on Professional Wrestling Shows.