The grace of God began in the garden.
ECT SO , WHERE DID THE GRACE OF GOD , BEGIN ??
- Thread starter DAN P
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turbosixx
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One could argue before creation. Eph. 1:4.
Hi and the Dispensation of the Grace God , began when the Godhead had Paul write it in Eph 1:4 and in 12 Tim 1:9 and then SAVED Paul to preach it to Gentiles Acxts 20:24 and then Preach what was HIDDEN and then revealed in Col 1:25 and 26 !!
That means that when Paul was saved in Acts 9:6 began and GRACE was then revealed t all the WORLD and Paul was the saved by Grace as revealed in 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 and was the FIRST / PROTOS and a PATTERN for all that were to follow Paul !!
dan p
turbosixx
New member
So you're saying that grace began with the event of a man's conversion instead of the very event it's founded upon?
WRONG, see post #39
Hi and post #39 have nothing to do with when Grace of God began as Paul is the ONLY that writes about the MYSTERY and the B O C and 2 Peter says that those like Trubosxxx are Unlearned and TWIST what Paul to there own DESTRUCTION , sound like those who do not follow Paul 1 Cor 11:1 and Col 1:25 and 26 !!
dan p
turbosixx
New member
What is the source of what Paul writes about and what is the source of the other NT writers?
Hi and ALL writers wrote as they were moved by the Holu\y Spirit as 2 Tim 3:16 says !!
dan p
turbosixx
New member
Sounds like you from my view point. Why is Peter writing to the same people Paul wrote to?
2 Pt. 3:15... —as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
Is Paul telling them one thing and Peter another?
turbosixx
New member
That's right, they got it from the same source and it's about the same Christ. It's to the Jew and Gentile.
Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
Hi and THERE YOU GO AGAIN , WRONG !!
Where did Jesus OR the 12 apostles preach the Dispensation of the Grace of God and IF you can and KNOW what Acts 15:11 means you can be a Dispemsationalist !!
Read Acts 9:15 gives Paul's assignment !!
dan p
Why are we comparing Paul against Peter? Paul claimed to be the least of the apostles and God thought so highly of Peter that just his shadow healed people.
In Ephesians 3:1-2 NKJV Paul said, "For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles — if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you..."
The word "dispensation" means stewardship.
In Ephesians 3:1-2 NASB Paul said, "For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles — if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you..."
In Ephesians 3:1-2 NKJV Paul said, "For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles — if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you..."
The word "dispensation" means stewardship.
In Ephesians 3:1-2 NASB Paul said, "For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles — if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you..."
Strong's 3622 oikonomía (from 3621 /oikonoméō, "a steward, managing a household") – properly, a stewardship, management (administration), i.e. where a person looks after another's affairs (resources).
(A "dispensation" can also refer to a special period of time (management). But this is a secondary (not primary) meaning of 3622 (oikonomía).)
(A "dispensation" can also refer to a special period of time (management). But this is a secondary (not primary) meaning of 3622 (oikonomía).)
Hi and you are WRONG AGAIN , as OIKONOMOS means stewardship !!
OIKONOMIA means House /OIKOS and NOMLOS means LAW !!
Use your dictio nary next time !!
dan p
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Strong's Greek: 3622. οἰκονομία (oikonomia) -- stewardship ...
biblehub.com/greek/3622.htm
Bible Hub
3622 oikonomía (from 3621 /oikonoméō, "a steward, managing a household") – properly, a stewardship, management (administration), i.e. where a person looks ...
biblehub.com/greek/3622.htm
Bible Hub
3622 oikonomía (from 3621 /oikonoméō, "a steward, managing a household") – properly, a stewardship, management (administration), i.e. where a person looks ...
οἰκονόμος oikonómos, oy-kon-om'-os; from G3624 and the base of G3551; a house-distributor (i.e. manager), or overseer, i.e. an employee in that capacity; by extension, a fiscal agent (treasurer); figuratively, a preacher (of the Gospel):—chamberlain, governor, steward.
(https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g3623)
What a mess.
But Peter did describe your kind there.
Fact is that the delay in the restoration of their kingdom that Paul relates in Romans 9 is due to what God was now doing in His longsuffering...is...what Peter is talking about in 2 Peter 3.
It is the very question they asked the Lord in Matt. 21 and Acts 1.
turbosixx
New member
Agreed.
I'm trying to understand your viewpoint but these are problems I have with it. What am I missing?
Jesus and the 12 taught the kingdom was at hand. 1) Was the delay foreseen? 2) What caused the delay?
Romans 9 tells us it's not the fleshly people that are Israel/heirs but the children of promise which are those born again, Christians. That's why Jesus tells Nic, unless you are born again.
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.
So I see a greater kingdom, one that has Jews and Gentiles that are one in Christ. A kingdom like Jesus describes in the gospels and one that is not of this world.
I'm not sure what your point is by this, could you please explain?
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turbosixx
New member
You can't even fathom that you could be wrong can you?
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ-this Jesus whom you crucified."
Thousands were saved on Pentecost, is that not GRACE?
2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.
Did they earn it?
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The kingdom of God is as close as our last breath which could come at any time.
The brain decays and there is no sense of the passing of time.
Hi and it WAS NOT GRACE as God had a COVENANT RELATION SHIP , called the Law of Moses that Israel was given to GUIDE their lives with !!
The Revelation of the MYSTERY was given ONLY to Paul in Rom 16:25 and 26 BECAUSE it was HIDDEN and than REVEALED only to Paul by DIRECT REVELATION and not from MAN !!
dan p
turbosixx
New member
I want to make sure I understand you correctly. You're saying these people in Acts 2:47 were saved by the Law of Moses?
….”And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved”
I don’t see any scripture or revelation being from MAN, it’s all from God.
I have trouble believing it was ONLY given to Paul or it was HIDDEN when Peter was the first one to have the mystery revealed to him in dramatic fashion. There’s a whole chapter devoted to God showing him the Gentiles are now clean and him preaching the words of life to them.
Acts 11:.. Peter, 14 who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.
Then Peter explains it to the others and they understood that God saves Gentiles too.
Acts 11:18 …“Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”
Just because it’s not labeled as the mystery here doesn’t change the fact that it is the mystery. These Gentiles are saved the same way as everyone else:
Acts 10: …..43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”
I don’t see any NT writers preaching exclusion, after the D,B&R.